Post your Upgraded Fuel system

[BOTTLEFED]

I'd like to see the specs on some of the upgraded fuel systems you guys are running. Doesn't matter if you are n/a, TT, Roe S/C, Paxton S/C, whatever - I want to hear about injectors, fuel pumps, lines, regulators, etc.
Also, let us know what kind of HP you are putting down and how you like your setup.
Other miscellaneous facts like price, who installed it, duty cycle, fuel pressure, etc, would be a plus. Oh, and pics would be a double plus

 

[Red Snake]

660 rwhp/710 rwtrq - Roe 10 pounds of boost

Single Walbro 255 in the tank (oem hangar) and a Boost-a-pump. Simplest and most cost effective to install.

 

[EllowViper]

Red,
Did you DIY or have a tuner do the Walbro? I'm currently doing OK with the stock pump and BAP on my 10 lb set-up but as BOTTLEFED indicates, it would be good to start figuring out the nuts-n-bolts of the various upgrades people have done. A COMPLETE Illustrated Upgrade on the Walbro 255 install in the stock hangar would be most excellent...

 

[Russ M]

In the process of doing top feed 60# injectors being fed by a -10 fuel line, powered by 2-255lb pumps mounted in tank, fed through an Aeromotive fuel filter controled by an AEM fuel pressure regulator and an AEM EMS, using the factory fuel line as a return.

Should be good for around 1100-1200hp doing all the work my self.

 

[GTSnake]

I use a Weldon 255.

With a BG heat sink.

Aeroquipe regulator -10 outbound and -8 return. My injectors are 75lb. I run the pressure between 55 and 58lbs. When I retune it I want to run a higher fuel pressure with higher boost.

 

[Red Snake]

Red,
Did you DIY or have a tuner do the Walbro? I'm currently doing OK with the stock pump and BAP on my 10 lb set-up but as BOTTLEFED indicates, it would be good to start figuring out the nuts-n-bolts of the various upgrades people have done. A COMPLETE Illustrated Upgrade on the Walbro 255 install in the stock hangar would be most excellent...

I watched Joe at PBJ do mine. It rides in the OEM hangar. I didn't take any pics (sorry). There was one minor issue that Joe pointed out. I think the power/ground wires are different colors on the 255 than they were on the OEM pump. But I am not 100% sure. Double check that before you take it for gold. Maybe someone else here can confirm that.

The only downside is that this pump is a little bit shorter than the OEM, so now I have to add fuel no lower than 1/8 tank instead of running it all the way down to Empty. Not a big deal.

My car was running out of fuel in the upper rpms at about 635rwhp before the install. Afterwards, it made 660rwhp on a poor weather condition day (101 degrees, humid).

 

[Viperless]

I'd like to see the specs on some of the upgraded fuel systems you guys are running. Doesn't matter if you are n/a, TT, Roe S/C, Paxton S/C, whatever - I want to hear about injectors, fuel pumps, lines, regulators, etc.
Also, let us know what kind of HP you are putting down and how you like your setup.
Other miscellaneous facts like price, who installed it, duty cycle, fuel pressure, etc, would be a plus. Oh, and pics would be a double plus

I designed and installed this myself. It was built and sized to run E85, which requires 30-40% more fuel flow than gas, on a Paxton with a goal of 1000hp at the wheels. The Paxton never happened and ended up selling the Roe system and the car. With the 10lb Roe system, running E85, no water/**** when running E85, and a VEC3, it made 710hp and 710tq at the wheels.

Modified fuel basket with a -12AN (3/4") pickup and -8AN return fittings.
-12AN fuel line from the basket to a Magnafuel pre-filter, Magnafuel ProTuner 750 fuel pump, and Aeromotive 10 Micron fuel filter. Out of the filter with -10AN line to a Y-fitting. -8AN from the Y-fitting feeding each fuel rail in parallel. I installed -8AN fittings at the rear of each fuel rail. Out the front of each rail with -8AN lines to an Aeromotive Pro-Series boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. -8AN return line from the regulator to the tank. Also had a Barry Grant heat sink (fuel cooler) in there.

Siemens 75lb peak & hold injectors.

It worked very well. 80% duty cycle and 62psi fuel pressure at 10lbs of boost. 52psi at idle. Held fuel pressure rock steady right up to redline. Pump was noisy but I didn't bother trying to isolate it from the frame. I put trap doors in the fuel basket to try and keep fuel in it when cornering, etc. but it didn't work very well so I had to keep the tank at 1/4 or higher.

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[BOTTLEFED]

In the process of doing top feed 60# injectors being fed by a -10 fuel line, powered by 2-255lb pumps mounted in tank, fed through an Aeromotive fuel filter controled by an AEM fuel pressure regulator and an AEM EMS, using the factory fuel line as a return.

Should be good for around 1100-1200hp doing all the work my self.

wow, thanks everyone for your detailed responses

Russ,
in order to run a fuel return system you would have to upgrade to an AEM right?
because the VEC or SCT can't run it?

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Also, does anyone know why nobody uses the stock Denso Supra fuel pumps?
they are rated at over 280lph compared to the Walbro's 255lph
plus I've heard of many Walbro failures and the Denso pumps are bullet-proof
the Denso pumps are twice the price though

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I guess I should add my setup right now.

I'm running a stock system for the most part. I have the 52# (green top) injectors from Roe. I have a BAP as well. I'm running a 6.5# pulley on my Roe at 580hp. My injector duty cycle is in the mid-upper 70% range at WOT all the way to redline.

here is a pic of my BAP

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[SNKEBIT]

Don't you guys worry about the driveshaft breaking a u-joint in a high horsepower car with all that pretty braided fuel lines right there?
1st revolution= u-joint breaks
2nd revolution= flopping driveshaft makes sparks
3rd revolution= nice car extra crispy




p.s. I put safety hoops in mine.


b.t.w. I have 2 walbro 255's in the basket w/ 6-an lines out of each going to a crossover on the frame, (in case one craps, I still have fuel to both rails to get home.), then to the end of the fuel rail w/ 62#? injectors. 6-an coming out of the other end to a regulator and back to the tank through the stock line. Never ran out of fuel at 14 lbs of boost. Running 50-55 lbs of pressure.

 

[Viperless]

Don't you guys worry about the driveshaft breaking a u-joint in a high horsepower car with all that pretty braided fuel lines right there?

Definitely. I was in the process of building two loops.

 

[Viper Specialty]

wow, thanks everyone for your detailed responses

Russ,
in order to run a fuel return system you would have to upgrade to an AEM right?
because the VEC or SCT can't run it?

SCT can certainly run anything you would want injector wise, but return/returnless has nothing to do with fuel system control at the PCM level- 55PSI is 55PSI. VEC has its limitations on injector scaling and response times. [72lbs appears to be the limit, though you will certainly start to notice some of the downsides even as small as 50lbs if you know what you are looking for]

 

[BOTTLEFED]

that's odd
I've only heard of issues with adjusting for bigger injectors on the SCT

 

[Viper Specialty]

that's odd
I've only heard of issues with adjusting for bigger injectors on the SCT

That's odd as well, I have posted DOZENS of times that we were running HUGE injectors with SCT and running like "stock" on them. I don't know who you heard it from, but in any case, it isn't easy unless you have it down to a science.

I write programs every day, and run 1000cc [96lb] injectors on my personal daily driver with SCT- and pass emissions as well. Trust me, the SCT has every ability to run larger injectors as the AEM, so long as you know how the software, and more importantly, a narrow-band controller like the JTEC works. I have seen some of the programs floating around, and it is clear that many people writing them do not know the software well enough yet to make the needed changes in complicated situations like injector changes, especially when changing injector type as well. It isn't as simple as "scale the fuel tables" like most seem to try...

PS- I'll snap some picture of my fuel system as well when I have a moment...

 

[ViperBing]

Does anyone make a "drop in" fuel system upgrade kit?

 

[Russ M]

wow, thanks everyone for your detailed responses

Russ,
in order to run a fuel return system you would have to upgrade to an AEM right?
because the VEC or SCT can't run it?

Your fuel controller is irrelevant, your factory computer could control it long as you tune it properly.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Your fuel controller is irrelevant, your factory computer could control it long as you tune it properly.

So guys like UGR are only using the AEM for getting those higher HP#s because of more precise tuning? or they just don't like the VEC or SCT?

 

[RTTTTed]

I've got Walbro pump and MSD Fuel Pump Voltage Booster with stock fuel lines etc. Roe 10# with lime green injector tops. Vec 2 injector set to 63%. Nitrous system requires dedicated fuel system since I'm using stock lines and a single Walbro pump.

 

[dansauto]

I would disagree... MOTEC is the best then AEM then SCT, VEC3 and split second. The split second is not a bad system, it is very simple and good for up to 50# injectors and 600 Hp.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Ted, how is the SCT better than the AEM or even the VEC?
wouldn't the big shops like DLM, UGR, Heffner, ART, etc all be trying to advance the SCT programming and tuning if it were better since the SCT is about a 1/6 the price of an AEM?

and why aren't you running a W/M setup on your car?

 

[Viper Specialty]

So guys like UGR are only using the AEM for getting those higher HP#s because of more precise tuning? or they just don't like the VEC or SCT?

AEM simplifies the use of forced induction. And for the EXTREME power cars, offers extra features such as boost per gear, etc...

And you will soon start seeing the SCT creep into the forced induction cars as it ousts the VEC and Split-Sec...

 

[plumcrazy]

split second on mine, runs dead perfect with zero issues for 8500 miles so far.

(over 800rwhp)

there are a LOT of 800hp vipers running around with a split second

 

[BOTTLEFED]

mmmm... interesting

we need more info and writeups on the SCT use

 

[Viper Specialty]

I would disagree... MOTEC is the best then AEM then SCT, VEC3 and split second. The split second is not a bad system, it is very simple and good for up to 50# injectors and 600 Hp.

I would agree in general, but I do feel that SCT and AEM are on an even playing field- DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION. They both have their advantages and disadvantages depending on the application, and more importantly, the state you live in. From what I have seen, they both have the ability to control similar cars and systems. However, due to table resolution, the SCT remains dominant in the 1-2 Bar systems, and AEM in the 3 Bar systems. The AEM also has some nice bonus features like WideBand and Boost Control, but for some of us guys in Plug-In states would take the SCT's OBD-2/Bus compliance and fault finding ability over that any day, since a boost controller is a simple add-on item, and tuning is a set-and-forget [at least it should be] process anyway.

Overall, I think it really comes down to the application. For a 1-2Bar car, SCT hands down unless you REALLY need one of the AEM's features [which is unlikely in 1-2 bar anyway], and dont live in a plug-in state. For a 3-bar+ application, AEM would be the way to go, unless you REALLY need the ability to remain OBD-2/Bus compliant. When it comes down to "how they tick", they have about the same abilities, its just a matter of what programming is available.

Either way, the SCT is a young product, and I think we will be seeing some "upgrades" in the future. The JTEC controller as it sits in the Viper has MANY unused tables, some of which could be re-written for extra features by a programmer with some time on his hands. This *could* in effect give the SCT just about every feature the AEM has.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Ted, how is the SCT better than the AEM or even the VEC?
wouldn't the big shops like DLM, UGR, Heffner, ART, etc all be trying to advance the SCT programming and tuning if it were better since the SCT is about a 1/6 the price of an AEM?

-The SCT and the VEC aren't even in the same ballpark. One is an in-line controller, the other has the ability to reflash an entire engine control module. They really are too different to directly compare, even though some of their abilities are similar. The VEC can add and remove timing and fuel, thats about it. The SCT can do that too, as well as control every other facet of engine control. The VEC does however have some handy programable outputs for controlling PWM items, and soleniods.

-As posted above, the SCT is a young product, and just recently had virtually all of the bugs worked out of it. There are indeed big name tuners now looking to SCT to handle their tuning where SS, VEC and AEM would have before.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Dan,

its not that I don't believe you, I would just like to hear from anyone else about how good the SCT is and some users that have tuned the SCT to run their high HP cars

 

[RTTTTed]

My last post was kind of a 'tease' to get Dan to post. I obviously misunderstood him and thought he figured SCT was best. My mistake.

Maybe the best question would be where to buy an AEM from?

Here the AEM is the only ECU that I can find a tuner for.

I do have w/m.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan,

its not that I don't believe you, I would just like to hear from anyone else about how good the SCT is and some users that have tuned the SCT to run their high HP cars

I certainly know what you are saying, however I openly post on the board about the SCT, work with it every day, and have been working with SCT on a regular basis helping them develop this product since day 1.... I don't think that many others out there would be as "qualified" to give an opinion on the product itself and how it works. Its just that the product is too new to have many people who have used it to its full capability.

And trust me... you will be seeing some big power cars from some big names you know running SCT flashed PCM's quite soon.

 

[dun4791]

I certainly know what you are saying, however I openly post on the board about the SCT, work with it every day, and have been working with SCT on a regular basis helping them develop this product since day 1.... I don't think that many others out there would be as "qualified" to give an opinion on the product itself and how it works. Its just that the product is too new to have many people who have used it to its full capability.

And trust me... you will be seeing some big power cars from some big names you know running SCT flashed PCM's quite soon.

Great news.......big power and emission compliance for those who need it. Cheaper than an AEM as well, I'm guessing.