Prediction

[Bobpantax]

Cerberus is currently in negotiations to acquire the remainder of the Chrysler equity from Mercedes Benz. The top Executives of MB always loved the Viper. I am going to take a wild guess and say that, as part of the deal to acquire the rest of Chrysler stock from MB, MB will end up with the Viper line. How would this be done? First, the Viper line would be dropped into a wholely owned subsidiary of Chrysler. ( I am assuming that Chrysler LLC is either a sub S corp or a C corp for federal tax purposes. If it is a sub S, a Q sub election would be made if necessary) The stock of the subsidiary would then be used as part of the consideration, in a partial nontaxable reorg, to buy the equity interest in Chrysler still owned by MB. I know this sounds a bit farfetched but it is possible. If MB acquires the Viper, they will make it into a monster beyond anything we have dreamed of. Why? Because it would be a stand alone vehicle that they could then use to reenter racing and destroy the competition. I bet that when the Viper set the Ring record, the MB gearheads and management started foaming at the mouth to get their hands on the Viper. Herb. If you read this. What do you think?

 

[Rick530]

yeah well they make it into a monster beyond anything we have dreamed of but the price we never dreamed of for a Viper will follow. hell just look how all there cars are priced.

 

[Marv S]

Herb. If you read this. What do you think?

Re: Herb's dream Viper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warfang
GK- if money was not a huge consideration (within reason)... what would your dream Gen V Viper be like?

Good Evening Warfang....
I like the new ACR mighty fine....it is an awesome piece and actually quite civil for a daily driver as long as your in the right climate. If we go way out there....I'd say a full carbon body and two more holes to the V-10,,,that would make a + 9 L all aluminum V-12 (520+ ci). Maybe 750 na HP....that would be sweet......GK

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Herb's dream Viper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warfang
GK- if money was not a huge consideration (within reason)... what would your dream Gen V Viper be like?

Good Evening Warfang....
I like the new ACR mighty fine....it is an awesome piece and actually quite civil for a daily driver as long as your in the right climate. If we go way out there....I'd say a full carbon body and two more holes to the V-10,,,that would make a + 9 L all aluminum V-12 (520+ ci). Maybe 750 na HP....that would be sweet......GK

Hi Marv. I was asking Herb what he thinks about the MB acquisition theory.

 

[ViperGTS]

Dream on ...

 

[Bobpantax]

Dream on ...

Do you say that because of any data you may have obtained in your professional capacity or as a personal belief? Please clarify.

 

[Nine Ball]

Is there any printed proof of your claim that high level MB execs "loved the Viper"?

If anything, the Viper is wrong on so many levels when comparing it to a Benz. The cheap looking interior and 2003 Dodge Ram radio would be the first to go.

 

[JonB]

Is there any printed proof of your claim that high level MB execs "loved the Viper"?....

ABSOLUTELY ! Over and Over. Do you read Viper Magazine / VCA Notes ? Talk to them at VOI? When they first toured CAAP (Day 2 post-merger) they were drooling about their "Wipers".....

 

[Bobpantax]

Is there any printed proof of your claim that high level MB execs "loved the Viper"?
If anything, the Viper is wrong on so many levels when comparing it to a Benz. The cheap looking interior and 2003 Dodge Ram radio would be the first to go.

Actually yes. They understood that it was a different creature. When I did my first SRT Experience at Homestead Motor Speedway ( I have done four there), an MB Vice President was visiting. I showed him my then 8lb Roe supercharged 1999 GTS and took him for a spirited ride. He loved it and said that all the key execs loved the Viper. I also think that on one or more of the SRT Engineering chats over the years and/or on other threads individuals who spoke directly to Wolfgang (Sp?) reported his enthusiasm for the car. My theory is just that - a theory. If MB wants to get back into road racing this type of vehicle, what better way to do it than to acquire the Viper line which includes the Ring record holder?

 

[eucharistos]

Viper ACR w/ optional AMG package.....Hmmmmm

 

[alpine7822]

Viper ACR w/ optional AMG package.....Hmmmmm

And a $300K+ pricetag! ANYTHING that comes out of MB with that kind of performance is $125K+!!! I looked at the CLK63 AMG-Black before buying a Viper...not as much bang for the buck!

MB would do wonders with the car, but would also do wonders with the price! Just look at the SLR McLaren

 

[MoparMan]

Bob, I'm not up to speed on any of the details specific to the business organization of Chrysler and how a possible sale of the Viper to Daimler would be carried out, given that I don't think your scenario is that far-fetched at all. I say this because the ZC platform was supposed to be host to more models than just the Viper, including at least one M-B vehicle. Therefore, they've already got an engineering investment in the platform directly related to their own future product line.

 

[Bobpantax]

Bob, I'm not up to speed on any of the details specific to the business organization of Chrysler and how a possible sale of the Viper to Daimler would be carried out, given that I don't think your scenario is that far-fetched at all. I say this because the ZC platform was supposed to be host to more models than just the Viper, including at least one M-B vehicle. Therefore, they've already got an engineering investment in the platform directly related to their own future product line.

Hi MP. Good post. I had forgotten about the ZC data. I think Allpar had discussed same many moons ago. Right? As for increasing the price, I don't think MB would dramatically do so. The current Viper is quite profitable. If they amortize and allocate any future development costs across multiple vehicles using the same platform, it becomes even more profitable. For instance, what if they dropped the twin turbo 12 cylinder engine they already have from AMG into the Viper with a more muscular tune? The car would produce incredible numbers and performance. Current stock numbers for the V12 are:

Horsepower @ RPM
604@4800
Torque @ RPM
738@2000 (foot-lbs)

With a little work from our SRT and AMG friends and the new '08 tranny and differential ( perhaps beefed up a little more ), it is easy to envision a 700 HP, 800 ft lbs of tque at the flywheel Viper. Then someone like Heffner could quickly figure out how to massage the car up to the 1000 HP mark.

It's something to wish for isn't it?

 

[eucharistos]

And a $300K+ pricetag! ANYTHING that comes out of MB with that kind of performance is $125K+!!! I looked at the CLK63 AMG-Black before buying a Viper...not as much bang for the buck!

Agree, but there has never been anything (with a factory warranty) that is more bang for the buck than our Vipers.

MB would do wonders with the car

Thinking the same thing, without the cost implications

 

[dave6666]

I was going to say what Bob said, but he beat me to it.

 

[AFL in NJ]

Isn't the new McLaren SLR convertible $469,000? The cheapest MB with the 604hp engine is around $180,000....so I'm figuring that current engines that Mercedes would have available would drastically change the price point....which kills the reason the Viper is profitable; it is accessible to the "upper-middle-class".

Personally from what I heard at VOI, I'm thinking Cerberus keeps the Viper as it is still making the highest margin of any car they produce. I do not have any specifically private inside information regarding this.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[jk]

And then think about how much it would cost to have the MB Service department charge to service your care...

 

[ViperJay]

And then think about how much it would cost to have the MB Service department charge to service your care...

uhh, service for bmw or mb's is a hell of a lot cheaper than service for my viper. it might be cheaper as the viper is just about the only "big rig" chrysler has. MB has the entire AMG line.

 

[Coloviper]

Well, could be interesting! Even if they price it at $180K, it will be down around $105K in one and a half years. SL-65s have oh so great resale value.

 

[snakebite52]

v10 makes the viper period

 

[sween]

MB sounds good but, it needs a V10 and lets keep it american!

 

[ROCKET62]

Wow - if you think the "Viper Tax" is high now - imagine what it will be with MB. I also thought it interesting that a while back there was the spy shots of a Mercedes on a Viper chassis - so it very well could be MB as our new owner.

 

[YellowViperSRT10]

I would love if this was true, but I cannot see it ever happening, sure they may love the Viper, but this is just not the type of car they focus on. Not only that, they would probably want to make it have ONLY an automatic tranny like all AMG cars. Keep in mind i am a Mercedes fanatic and they are my favorite cars in the world PERIOD! but i just cannot ever see this happening, but would love to be wrong.

 

[Warfang]

v10 makes the viper period

Grailkeeper doesn't seem to think so. Simplicity and brute power is what makes a Viper.

 

[mike & juli]

WARFANG: Did I or did I NOT make a prediction that Mercedes-Benz (Daimler-Benz actually) would possibly be the buyer for the VIPER? Remember when???? LOL...we'll just have to see how it plays out. I still think it's a real possibility AND could be a GOOD thing...dunno yet. ~juli

 

[eucharistos]

Simplicity and brute power is what makes a Viper.

Yes, yes---well said.

 

[ViperGTS]

1. Right now, Daimler wants to get "rid" of the Chrysler business part they still own...19,x %.
No doubt.

2. Why should Daimler buy a brand like the Viper?
It just does NOT fit into the MB program.

P.S.: I was one of a few here who did like the "merger" - most guys here could not be happier when Daimler left the sinking Chrysler ship - Chrysler back in American arms!
Was the saying here...

 

[Warfang]

WARFANG: Did I or did I NOT make a prediction that Mercedes-Benz (Daimler-Benz actually) would possibly be the buyer for the VIPER? Remember when???? LOL...we'll just have to see how it plays out. I still think it's a real possibility AND could be a GOOD thing...dunno yet. ~juli

I never said it would or wouldn't happen... just that it would be a horrible idea considering how they let the Viper languish under their helm. Frankly, Daimler can kiss my @$$.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I never said it would or wouldn't happen... just that it would be a horrible idea considering how they let the Viper languish under their helm. Frankly, Daimler can kiss my @$$.

If it did happen (Daimler purchase) that would mean that I would never again buy a Viper, and probably feel compelled to sell what I have now.

 

[Kala]

I think future stability is a major concern for me. I would consider Daimler more stable and knowledgeable about Viper in general.

Rather than say Tata... or Nissan...