Prefilling Oil Filter

[eucharistos]

are y'all talking canola or olive oil

 

[wikkid]

Ive never filled a oil filter yet. Ive done hundreds of oil changes with no issue. I might just change my methods after reading this thread.

 

[white out]

I pre-fill whenever I can. At first start (also from winter storage), I crank the car a few times before holding the ignition to start the car. Just trying to have a little preventative measures.

Nick

 

[dave6666]

Do they have a prefiller's for daily use filter yet, so I can be ready anytime the moment is right?

 

[bluesrt]

I pre-fill whenever I can. At first start (also from winter storage), I crank the car a few times before holding the ignition to start the car. Just trying to have a little preventative measures.

Nick

not to beat u up but that does no good--- anyway this thread is gettin dumb-

 

[bluesrt]

Ive never filled a oil filter yet. Ive done hundreds of oil changes with no issue. I might just change my methods after reading this thread.

why change now you have done hundreds of them with no harm

 

[bluesrt]

i never change my oil---just the oil filter- does anybody out thier no if i should pre-fill my filter or just letter rip---

 

[bluesrt]

oops LET HER RIP

 

[coupe]

"wick" the oil up? could you get a little more technical with that?

You want technical? Here... have at it: Hydrodynamic Bearings

You're saying running the engine essentialy dry for that first few seconds while the oil presure comes up, bearings loaded while it runs at several hundred rpm is better than cranking it over on the starter to get the oil pump and galleys primed?

Well, it's technically not dry after just an oil-change. And from the above link: Hydrodynamic bearings rely on bearing motion to **** fluid into the bearing and may have high friction and short life at speeds lower than design or during starts and stops.

Spurious thought at it's best. Never primed an engine before?

hey, you do what you want. It's your engine.

 

[bluesrt]

i run my motor without the oil plug and filter to get all the oil out--then prefill the oil filter

 

[bluesrt]

oh dont do the above to your motor/ i have a top secret motor that i cant talk any further about

 

[dave6666]

I had mine demagnetized so it doesn't need oil any more.

 

[Asp Man]

You want technical? Here... have at it: Hydrodynamic Bearings

Well, it's technically not dry after just an oil-change. And from the above link: Hydrodynamic bearings rely on bearing motion to **** fluid into the bearing and may have high friction and short life at speeds lower than design or during starts and stops.

hey, you do what you want. It's your engine.

Thanks! You've managed to both embarrass yourself and support my previous statement.

You may want to read the article that you're using to prop up your statement with, I can clearly see you haven't done so.
We're talking about hydrostatic bearings here, not hydrodynamic.

To quote your precious Wikipedia article, with respect to journal bearings(a type of hydrostatic bearing (which is what your engine has)) "...a large part of the bearing wear occurs during start up, and shut down."

I do what I can to mitigate the start up wear, you do what you like.

 

[Bandit3]

Sdaddy, you must be an older fella to remember the kerosene "flush". My father told me to do that on my first car, a 1956 Belair 265 to clean it out. I guess there was no detergent oil back then.

On to prefilling the filter. Cleaner way is much easier. Open hood, remove fuse cover and remove the relay for the fuel pump. After replacing the filter and fill the oil, spin the engine over until gauge reads auabout 40-50 psi. Then double check oil level and awaaaaay ya go with no mess and no damage

 

[dave6666]

Not sure how prefilling is not clean. And instantaneous.

I fill mine most of the way to the top, install it w/o dripping any, and upon cranking the first time get oil pressure instantly as if it was just another Tuesday.

It's so easy, so simple, I need not any other reason.

 

[bluesrt]

the kerosene flush was a big dummy move/ man i am so addicted to this dummy thread

 

[Bandit3]

Blue--might be "dummy move" today, but many moons ago it was done to "flush" engine sludge.. You must be a youngster.

 

[coupe]

"...a large part of the bearing wear occurs during start up, and shut down.".

You do realize that at startup, it is a hydrodynamic behavior, right? The velocity at the oil-film "wedge" has everything to do with the crank getting up off the bearing and reducing wear. Much more likely at startup RPM than cranking RPM. The pump also does more work with RPM.

You've managed to both embarrass yourself and support my previous statement.

If you feel that way, fine. You've mangaged to convey both an arrogant and a condescending attitude toward me for no apparent reason.

Here's some more reading for anyone interested:Plain Bearings

 

[bluesrt]

Blue--might be "dummy move" today, but many moons ago it was done to "flush" engine sludge.. You must be a youngster.

uh- still dummy move- you do not want to remove sludge/ they just didnt know any better-- but they found out the hard way--

 

[past ohio]

A lot of people coming out of the closet....

 

[dave6666]

Some need to go back in....

 

[bluesrt]

:*****:this thread is getting fun now..

 

[RTTTTed]

Another popular (for a decade or so) was using auto trans fluid to clean the engine. When I was younger I had several mechanics suggest that when I bought an older car to "Drain half the oil and add Dexron to clean the sludge before an oil change." Never tried that. Didn't make sense to put trans fluid into an engine.

It's been several decades since I heard anyone suggest that and then, here I read the Kerosene 'trick' which was obsolete by 1970.

Ted

 

[sdaddy]

Sdaddy, you must be an older fella to remember the kerosene "flush". My father told me to do that on my first car, a 1956 Belair 265 to clean it out. I guess there was no detergent oil back then.

On to prefilling the filter. Cleaner way is much easier. Open hood, remove fuse cover and remove the relay for the fuel pump. After replacing the filter and fill the oil, spin the engine over until gauge reads auabout 40-50 psi. Then double check oil level and awaaaaay ya go with no mess and no damage

Older fella is right! My first car was a 60 Corvair that had been rolled by the previous owner (my brother-in-law). My second car was a 56 Ford 312 that burned/leaked so much oil I bought used motor oil from the gas station in gallon milk jugs to run through it. I have a cousin who is a Cummings Diesel mechanic that claims when these things are good and broke in at a million miles or so, they leak oil as fast as they dirty it up so you never have to drain the oil, just change the filter and keep adding more oil.

 

[Asp Man]

You do realize that at startup, it is a hydrodynamic behavior, right? The velocity at the oil-film "wedge" has everything to do with the crank getting up off the bearing and reducing wear. Much more likely at startup RPM than cranking RPM. The pump also does more work with RPM.

If you feel that way, fine. You've mangaged to convey both an arrogant and a condescending attitude toward me for no apparent reason.

Here's some more reading for anyone interested:Plain Bearings

First off, take it as a personal attack, that says far more about you than I. It's not what it is.
Second; Your statement that it's hydrodynamic at start up, is quite another thing than your "wicks the oil up into the bearing" idea.

You still cannot seem to understand that what we're dealing with here is an engine that requires a pump to move the oil to the bearing/jounals. An engine that is designed with H.static bearings. Full stop.

You have this idea that there's enough oil hanging around in the engine on the journals and bearings to keep those pieces apart, and that this oil itself is somehow drawing oil in to meet it, "wick" as you put it, despite the obvious impedance of having to get around the oil pump and any air in the oil lines, filter, galleys, pump pick-up etc. That's some magic fluid dynamic!
Cranking the engine turns the oil pump, that's all I'm saying. You dismiss this as doing nothing, when in fact it's bring oil to the bearings and fills the galleys so when you fire it, there is oil to support the journals away from the bearings. Fire it up without filling the filter, without pumping oil under presure to the bearings and risk premature bearing failure.
Here's what you seem to base your assumtion on: "Hydrostatic bearings enter a hydrodynamic state when the journal is turning"
Sufficient oil has to be present for this to happen, and in a bearing that is designed as hydrostatic, that happens when it's pumped there under presure.
Dispute it all you want, you cannot get around the simple fact that the bearings and journals in your engine are designed that in order to support the journals off of the bearing surface oil must be provided with enough presure to do so. You can't have it both ways, my friend. Sorry!
This shadetree idea that that there oil wicks on up in there somehow, holds no merit and is vastly different that the hydrodynamic principle mentioned in that article and you've yet to explain how it (wicking of oil to the bearings) happens ...or let it go.

 

[RTTTTed]

I agree with Aspman.

Starter barely turns the engine over at 250rpm and takes awhile to fill the engine will oil (inculding bearings). Using a "pre-oiler" and a drill at 1000rpm in a static engine show that the higher rpm is about ten times faster than the starter motor.

Also, everyone knows that if the oil pump fails while the engine is running, the bearing will fail quickly. Not enough hydo-dynamic oil draw to save engine from failure even when the engine is full of oil. Pump fails - engine fails.

Ted

 

[coupe]

You still cannot seem to understand that what we're dealing with here is an engine that requires a pump to move the oil to the bearing/jounals...Cranking the engine turns the oil pump, that's all I'm saying. You dismiss this as doing nothing.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression of dismissing the pump's importance. That wasn't my intention at all. The oil pump is indeed critical, but so is the rotation of the crank, especially in the first few seconds after cranking.

You cannot get around the simple fact that the bearings and journals in your engine are designed that in order to support the journals off of the bearing surface oil must be provided with enough presure to do so. You can't have it both ways, my friend.

Well yes, but the velocity (rotational) of the journal is just as important to intended design as the pressure feeding it. I won't deny the importance of the oil getting in there as fast as possible, but it's equally critical to also get the crank spinning up quickly to "lift off" the bearing. Starting RPM will accomplish both of these faster than cranking RPM. Depending on clearances, you could have 100psi of oil pressure and a slow spinning crank could still drag along the bearing surface.

This shadetree idea that that there oil wicks on up in there somehow, holds no merit and is vastly different that the hydrodynamic principle mentioned in that article and you've yet to explain how it (wicking of oil to the bearings) happens ...or let it go.

If it's just a misuse of the word "wick" that you're getting at, fine. Maybe it's not the best word to describe the way the oil film is drawn forward and pushed along by the crank just before the pump pressure becomes effective. There is a film of oil that remains after shut-down. Take an engine down and tell me there isn't. It's small, but it's there and it's important. This oil becomes what is essentially a hydraulic wedge, which increases as pressure comes up. Maybe "wicks" wasn't the appropriate word... okay, I'll confess to the shadetree technicality.