PS1 vs PS2 - Outside vs Direction of Rotation

[Bird325]

I just swapped out my track wheels/old tires onto the car so I could take the newer wheels/tires in for a new tire and a TPMS setup. Here's my comments and question for those that have been around these beasts for a while:

The old PS1 tires have a marker on them for 'direction of rotation'. That implies that the tires/wheels cannot be swapped from side to side without pulling the tire off and remounting it in the opposite orientation.

The newer PS2 tires have an 'outside' marker, so it stays on the OUTSIDE even when you swap the wheel from side to side. There is NO 'rotation' marker on the PS2.

I've searched here and on the web in general, and have not found a definitive answer to: Can the PS2 tires be swapped from side to side (different widths, so the front and back remain the front and back) without any detrimental effects?

Obviously, the PS1 tires have to be remounted to keep the direction of rotation the same, but what about rotating the PS2 from side to side?

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Edit.... hindsight being 20/20, I would have just suggested.... ask a member that has a newer Viper with factory installed PS2 tires to see what is suggested in the owner's manual.

Regards,
Mike

 

[01 RT SNAKE]

I've swapped my rear tires (PS2's) and have had no catastrophic failures. They're wearing nicely.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

That's cool. Edit.. delete all my babbling...

Cheers,
Mike

 

[01 RT SNAKE]

Mike,

Not saying you're wrong at all....just saying I've had no ill effects.........yet

 

[Leslie]

I've swapped my rear tires (PS2's) and have had no catastrophic failures. They're wearing nicely.

Same here, been moving left to right.

 

[dave6666]

I've driven to many a dinner cocktail party with a fresh rotation, and no ill effects. Of course I passed you in a school zone the other day so just guessing that you knew the crossing guard didn't have any peel 'n eat shrimp. Why risk 21 in a 20 just for a wave on!

Anyway, we need to go cruising again sometime. You know, open 'em up. Heck, I'll do 40 on an entrance ramp if you will!

 

[bluesrt]

I've swapped my rear tires (PS2's) and have had no catastrophic failures. They're wearing nicely.

swap away----no problem will ever happen

 

[RTTTTed]

The PS1 tires are obsoltete and no longer made. They were "Asymetrical" meaning that they were designed to only turn one direction.

The new PS2s are symetrical so that they can turn in either direction with no difference.

JonB is an expert on tires and has "connections" with the Michelin Man. Ask him and if he doesn't know - he can find out.

Ted

 

[Detlef]

Swapping PS2's from side to side

So based on the pictures, can my front PS2's be swapped side to side? They are well worn on the outside edges from 2 HPDE events. Wanted to have all the grip I can for VOI and Miller Motorsports Park. Sounds like YES from what I have read thus far.

 

[AZTVR]

Re: Swapping PS2's from side to side

So based on the pictures, can my front PS2's be swapped side to side? They are well worn on the outside edges from 2 HPDE events. Wanted to have all the grip I can for VOI and Miller Motorsports Park. Sounds like YES from what I have read thus far.

I also have run my PS2s on either side to balance the wear from HPDE. Michelin's website shows tire rotations involving reversal of direction of rotation, so, I wouldn't be concerned about that.

 

[RTTTTed]

Yes, do it.

 

[JonB]

URGENT ! Please let me clarify some SERIOUS and DANGEROUS mis-information about rotating PS-2 Tires:

PLEASE, NO ONE SHOULD EVER ROTATE PS-2 TIRES SO THAT THE "OUTSIDE" SHOULDER BECOMES THE "INSIDE" SHOULDER.

On PS-2 Tires the sidewall is marked "OUTSIDE". It Must Stay OUTSIDE.

PS-2 tire is an assymetrical tire, but a non-directional tire. This means you CAN rotate the left wheel/tire to the right, and visa-versa. Rotating the entire wheel/tire assembly ensures the OUTSIDE shoulder STAYS OUTSIDE. Reversal of direction of rotation is NOT a problem on PS-2.

On the older, DIRECTIONAL Pilot Sports, you could NOT do this. They would have to be dismounted to rotate them. {Some call the older tire the PS-1, but there was no such thing}

 

[RTTTTed]

After re-reading my post, I'd better clarify what I meant- Yes, change it from side to side and keep the OUTSIDE on the outisde.

 

[AZTVR]

After re-reading my post, I'd better clarify what I meant- Yes, change it from side to side and keep the OUTSIDE on the outisde.

Same here. I assumed that we were all on the same page that the side marked outside always stays on the outside; but, Jon's post leaves no room for misunderstanding .. Thanks !

 

[JonB]

The PS1 tires are obsoltete and no longer made. They were "Asymetrical" meaning that they were designed to only turn one direction.

The new PS2s are symetrical so that they can turn in either direction with no difference.

JonB is an expert on tires and has "connections" with the Michelin Man. Ask him and if he doesn't know - he can find out. Ted

Hey Ted, [one of my favoride students]: The above ^ is stated reversed, red vs blue.

"PS" were symetrical and directional. "PS-2" are Assymetrical and Non-directional.

I hope I was NOT the one that confused you!

 

[RTTTTed]

Either it was explained to me wrong or I heard it wrong. I stand corrected.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

It's not just up to the tire manufacturer, hence my editted comment to just check what a late model PS2 equipped Viper owner's manual suggests. Otherwise, it'll just be an endless debate...

This is an old debate regarding tire rotation. There's companies like BMW that suggest to not rotate the tires (regardless if uni/directional, non/symmetrical, etc.). They feel that tire rotation will affect the handling of the vehicle by swapping the tire locations, the tire wears or breaks in to the installed location and suspension geometry at that corner, and if there's a wear issue on one tire long term this will highlight a suspension adjustment being out of tolerance.

If you ignore the handling aspects, then sure.. listen to the tire experts.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[JonB]

Just so there is NO debate on PS-2 on this point: The "OUTSIDE" of the PS2 tire has a very different compound and tread design for cornering loads. While the INSIDE shoulder has a harder, less-tractionable "mileage" compound. The inside shoulder is NOT designed for maximum cornering grip.

As you corner (any tire) a PS-2's grippy OUTSIDE shoulder compound is asked to handle more and more lateral grip. And it is designed and capabale of doig so. If you make a big mistake and INSIDE-OUT Rotate a PS2, when you lean it into a corner, the tread contact patch becomes LESS grippy as the inner shoulder lifts. This means when you need it most, the tire releases. BAD THINGS HAPPEN.

------------------- That Said:
2000 Black I agree with you, there are many anecdotes of the whys and whynots of some tire rotation: Viper Example is the well-liked Kumho V-700. While it displayes a "DIRECTION OF ROTATION" Arrow, that tire can absolutley be run in reverse rotation EXCEPT WHEN WET! In this tire, and some others, the watershed charactersics define the rotation. So if you stay dry, you can safely swap V-700 directions, and prolong tire life. Many tires this would NOT be safe.

 

[Jack B]

Re: Swapping PS2's from side to side

So based on the pictures, can my front PS2's be swapped side to side? They are well worn on the outside edges from 2 HPDE events. Wanted to have all the grip I can for VOI and Miller Motorsports Park. Sounds like YES from what I have read thus far.

"Worn on the outside edges" - they may be, however, when they are new they sort of look worn on the outside edge. I also believe the tread compound varies across the width. They are an interesting tire, they look crappy and work well.