ps2s on rear / runflats up front?

[pteam]

Ok guys I just realized at the drag strip last night / ohio vipers meet, that I actually have ps2s on the rear and runflats on the front. The dealership said they put new tires on before I bought it, so my best guess is they just replaced the rears.

My friend who owns a srt viper and a tire shop, said he would just run it the way it is until the front ones wear out, they still have good tread left. He said he did similiar on his viper and went to ****** run track days pretty often and had no problems.

My question is how bad is it to have ps2s on the rear and run flats / ps1s ZPs on the front.

BTW, its very hard to tell the difference from looking at the side of the tires, theres almost no indication on the sidewall. It doesn't even say the words "runflat" it just says Pilots ZPs and like zero pressure, where the backs dont say that but only say PS2 in the most minute of an area, the wording is like a centemeter or two in size.

 

[plumcrazy]

do a search. its BAD

 

[GR8_ASP]

I have heard that over and over. But how many have actually tried it and determined how it acts as the tires approach the limits?

When my run flat rear tires wore out a few years back I replaced them with the PS1 non run flats. No issue whatsoever. The only thing I can say is it has a tiny bit more understeer given the wear and age difference between the tires. I had 1 track day with this combination and did not notice a significant difference in overall handling.

I think you can make the same arguments between older or heat aged tires versus new front to rear or rear to front. The differences between the various versions of Pilot Sports is not enough in my opinion to cause replacement of all 4. The construction of the tires is not dramatically different. Certainly not like a bias vs radial, or drag radial vs normal front. But the later combination is used in the Viper world quite frequently with no apparent harm other than less road handling capability (at the extremes).

 

[RTTTTed]

They're comletely different tires. Run craps are asymetrical and unidirectional. The PS2s are symetrical and omnidirection. Different weights and handling characteristics. Different traction.

May be OK if you never need the handling the car was designed for.

I'd change the fronts to PS2s even if all you wanted was the better traction for braking.

Ted

 

[ViperJohn]

I am not sure how long ago you bought the car, but I would be going back to the dealership and finding someone's rear to meet my right foot.

From a safety and handling perspective, get a set of front PS2's asap. Under most normal driving conditions there should be no issues, however under extreme driving conditions such as an emergency lane change, your vehicle is unsafe.

This issue has been discussed many times, including with the SRT engineers. Bottom line, get matching front and rear tires.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Probably push like a cement truck when aproaching the limits

 

[rcl4668]

Definitely not ideal for street driving. I suppose you could risk it if you were driving your car under very mild conditions (no aggressive driving). I would imagine that it would be borderline insane if you were to take the car out to the track.

/Rich

 

[daveat]

i don't understand why everybody is saying it is such a safty hazard? from 03-06 the runflats were fine and it sounds like he is driving an 06... yes the ps2's are different, a much better tire i wouldn't put anything less on an 08 car. but as stated they worked fine for 3 years on that style of car don't see why they wouldn't now?

but i would find a rear at the dealer for my foot to meet for telling you they replaced all the tires

 

[Racer Robbie]

It is a fact that you never mix run craps with non run craps. call Michelin if you have any doubts.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Get a set of PS2s for the front--------the issue is important enough to go back to the Dealer and tell him he mismatched the tires.

Ask anyone who races, this is not a good combination.

Best of luck!

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Hmmmm, lemme think here....The runflat side wall is stiff enough to support the car with NO air in it and it does not go flat, the PS2 side wall is gonna look like a squashed egg with no air in it...handling diference..front to rear.. yikes! Anybody that says it's not an issue has been just plain lucky.

 

[daveat]

i now see that he has ps2's on the rear, did not gather that at first my mistake... i thought we were saying that they just replaced the runflats on the rear and the car had all 4 ZP tires

sawry

 

[pteam]

Looks like Im gonna have to get some ps2s for the front. The dealer was Van Horn Dodge in Wisconsin. They must have only replaced the rear tires. They're 8 hours away from me so I can't just drive up there, and I highly doubt they're just going to pay for a set of new front tires now.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Always worth a call to check and maybe they will at least split it with you?

 

[hdscreens]

Ok guys I just realized at the drag strip last night / ohio vipers meet, that I actually have ps2s on the rear and runflats on the front. The dealership said they put new tires on before I bought it, so my best guess is they just replaced the rears.

My friend who owns a srt viper and a tire shop, said he would just run it the way it is until the front ones wear out, they still have good tread left. He said he did similiar on his viper and went to ****** run track days pretty often and had no problems.

My question is how bad is it to have ps2s on the rear and run flats / ps1s ZPs on the front.

BTW, its very hard to tell the difference from looking at the side of the tires, theres almost no indication on the sidewall. It doesn't even say the words "runflat" it just says Pilots ZPs and like zero pressure, where the backs dont say that but only say PS2 in the most minute of an area, the wording is like a centemeter or two in size.

You know when everybody always gives you the **** answer "Do a search". Well, I did a search and found this old post and now I have a question for Pteam. Mr. Pteam you have a PM.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Come on,

Tires are tires,

If you hadn't already noticed a difference, I wouldn't worry about it until yu drive over a bunch of nails and get 2 blowouts on the back and ......


LOL

 

[GR8_ASP]

Note also most of the negative responses are band wagon jumpers with no direct experience and repeat the things they have been told. I am on the 3rd yearwith that combo and have had no issues and no handling idiocies period. And I have not bumped my cars nose or any other parts through various street activities, road track activities and autocrosses. I also replace my rears twice as frequently as my fronts and I will not replace all four just because of some idle threat, with no data on the specific combination to support it.

 

[Shandon]

Im sure there is some small handling difference, how much I don't know. I can with experience tell you that the PS2 ride way better than the craps! Combine that with the piece of mind knowing you have the same type all around its worth it to grab a new set up front.

 

[fireball]

I have some experience in this - and I have enough track expierence to have a lap record, won championships, etc., etc.....

My local track kills right front tires. Enough that when running hard the rears last more than twice as long as the fronts. When I bought my '04 it had run flats and I wnated to switch to PS2's. Since my wear rate on the front was a ton higher I switched them first and I got 2 more track days out of the rears. It just didn't feel right to discard still good rears so I 'used them up'.

The result was a blast to drive! The car was nice and loose. It trailed in easily and predictably. I really didn't expect (nor want) the rears to last long, so long slides on corner exit were the fun way around.

Overall the balance was terrible but it was a bunch of fun.

My advice. If all you want to do is have some fun and kill the tires - go at it, but if you plan on running the tires for very long (especially on the street where your environment is unpredictable) I'd switch right away. Besides, burning up fronts isn't as much fun as burning up some rears - understeer *****!

Greg

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I can add my perspective to this because it reminds me of the Gen1/2 brake imbalance.

• Run flats can't be "horrible" because Dodge thought having four of them on a car was OK.
• PS2 are better because they are lighter, stickier, or just not run flats.
• Putting run flats in the front and PS2s on the rear means the car might push in turns.
• Turn-in response is same as a new car with four run flats.
• Total braking performance cannot be worse than when the car was new and came with four run flats.
• The ABS will compensate easily for the difference in tires and stability or control under braking will be good.
• Total acceleration performance can be better because PS2s are stickier.
• Compare run flats in front to those that drag race with "skinnies" and who is safer?
• Safety is not likely an issue because the worst case is the front tires "slip" and you hit the tree head on. All occupant safety devices (seat belts, airbags, crash structures, etc) are mostly designed for frontal impact.

To my mind, this tire setup is no different than using different brake pads front to rear or using 305's vs. 285's up front. It gives the car a particular "balance" that can be argued about whether the owner should like it or not. I don't think the absolute "level" of performance is as big an issue.

 

[Canyon707]

I just mounted my runflats on the front of my car with MT drag radials on the rears. Not sure how this will work out. I had Sport cups on the front but, between the two tires I had a lot of handling problems on the ride to the track. I even stopped and thought I had a flat it was so bad. Not sure yet how the run flats will perform on the front. I only use them for drag racing and the ride to and fromm the track. PS2 for my normal ride. sport cups for track. looks like a tire shop in my garage.

 

[viperdrummer]

Take from a guy who spent the first 10 years of his legal practice defending tire companies in lawsuits nationwide--DON'T DO IT.

I could tell you dozens of horror stories of serious injury, deaths attributable to mixing tires. Any dealer who does this is a thrillseeker and better have a lot of insurance. Folks who are cavalierly giving advice here about "it is ok" are basing this primarily on their own good luck.

 

[Shank2117]

you ptobably got use to the grappy ride.

I had run flats all around, and when i replaced just the rear two with regular non-flat tires I thought i could run that setup fine, till i put it on the street, the handling went to sh*t and the car would sometimes **** when braking. its extremely dangerous to run that setup if you ever have to brake hard, or are at high speeds.

When i changed my front tires to non-runflats also and i had the all around non-flats it was a night and day difference, my car handles amazingly now. no jerks, no understeer, quieter.

Id deff recommend you put regular tires up front.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Take from a guy who spent the first 10 years of his legal practice defending tire companies in lawsuits nationwide--DON'T DO IT.

I could tell you dozens of horror stories of serious injury, deaths attributable to mixing tires. Any dealer who does this is a thrillseeker and better have a lot of insurance. Folks who are cavalierly giving advice here about "it is ok" are basing this primarily on their own good luck.

OK, tell us a few, limited to cars wearing 4 radial tires (no bias ply with radial) and with functioning ABS.

Geez, it sounds like people should go after Michelin for even having run flats.

 

[viperdrummer]

OK, tell us a few, limited to cars wearing 4 radial tires (no bias ply with radial) and with functioning ABS.

Geez, it sounds like people should go after Michelin for even having run flats.

God, I am old but no that old. There are a bunch. You may be able to find some on Google or in legal periodicals. I am constrained by ethics/privilege issues to go into anything involving clients. .

Just take it on faith there are some very sad stories out there involving young families. I know --I was in the courtroom. Also , call Michelin and ask--you can even get hold of an engineer. I did and he told me don't dare drive the PS2s (on my 09 CTS-V) in under 38 degree weather.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

God, I am old but no that old. There are a bunch. You may be able to find some on Google or in legal periodicals. I am constrained by ethics/privilege issues to go into anything involving clients. .

Just take it on faith there are some very sad stories out there involving young families. I know --I was in the courtroom. Also , call Michelin and ask--you can even get hold of an engineer. I did and he told me don't dare drive the PS2s (on my 09 CTS-V) in under 38 degree weather.

So if the temperature is under 38F, the run flats will "stick" and the PS2s will slide, and then above 38F, the run flats will slide and the PS2s will stick. OK... I see a little temperature effect, but in the absence of litigation and the sunlight of common sense (hey, everyone makes fun of lawyers, right?) then I still think RF in front and PS2s in back is at the minimum an OK situtation.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Bottom line,

If you are a nanny needing driver, make sure you have the same tire all around.

If you are not you should be able to handle it,

If it feels unsafe,

USE YOUR BRAIN

if it does not feel unsafe

USE YOUR BRAIN

If you have no confidence in YOUR BRAIN

use all 4 of the same tires

This comes from someone who has driven in all conditions with cars with and without nanny aids

-40 black ice conditions with 1971 duster with crappy tires
snow covered mountain passes in an SRT10 convert with bald rear tires
and ever
and every condition better

Nothing beats skill or brains and especially the combination of both

 

[GR8_ASP]

you ptobably got use to the grappy ride.

I had run flats all around, and when i replaced just the rear two with regular non-flat tires I thought i could run that setup fine, till i put it on the street, the handling went to sh*t and the car would sometimes **** when braking. its extremely dangerous to run that setup if you ever have to brake hard, or are at high speeds.

When i changed my front tires to non-runflats also and i had the all around non-flats it was a night and day difference, my car handles amazingly now. no jerks, no understeer, quieter.

Id deff recommend you put regular tires up front.

Never had that condition with the exact same setup (run flats up front and non-run flats in the rear). Street, track wherever. The responsiveness is no worse than with the original run flats as turn in, etc. is set up primarily by the crappy run flats. As I said it does have more understeer as the rear tire capacity has increased and the fronts have not. But more understeer generally is more controllable. Switching it the other way around (new PS2 in front) may be more unpredictable. But that is not what was asked.

 

[Disturbed]

While this is somewhat different...it's still the same.


On my ACR I had PS1 on the front and Kumho V700's on the rear. For drag racing...this was great! Even for mild street driving it was also fine. But when I would push the car into a corner....it just felt all goofy.

So as a temp thing...your fine. If your big thing is drag racing and mild street driving you have no reason to chance. If you want to push into a corner..then change them out.

 

[ViperGTS]

Again. Time for JonB's article...in Viper Notes...

You must be registered for see images attach