Question on bleeding brakes and brake fluid

[Roland L-Ocala FL]

The car goes back to the dealer on Saturday (3/16/02) for engine installation, and at the same time, I am going to have the brake fluid changed. I do go to the track to play around with the car once in a while (just for fun), but I understand that there is a heavier duty brake fluid that I could change to, that would help to eliminate brake fade (haven't experienced that and don't want to). What grade fluid is it, and are any brand names better than others. Motul is one I hear about, any other suggestions?

 

[shifter]

I use Motul 600 for the brakes and the clutch. There has been some discussion on this; check out these links:

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/006243.html

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/007085.html

 

[RonC]

In regards to the brake fluid, it is really very easy to do. You can buy those brake fluid suction kits to do the who process. When I did it a few months ago, a friend of mine help me with my car (he poured the fluid into the master cyl. assembly) then I helped him change his Ferrari's (his Testarossa has wimpy brakes!) brake fluid. Fair trade and total cost of 10 bucks for the fluid maybe. Then I spanked his 12 cylinder "red head" until he went home crying.

Just kidding.

Ron

 

[Gavin]

Have to disagree with Jason - fade is the result of boiling brake fluid - and it comes on very quick - going into one corner you will have a solid pedal- going into the next it could go to the floor.
High temp fluid is the very first thing you do
Porsche cooling ducts are the second
Stay with stock pads - take a spare set with you to the track.

I wouldn't make any other changes until you've got several track weekends under your belt and you come to the determination you want to do a lot more of this track thing or you just want to keep it to the occasional weekend. If your decision is to stick to the occasional weekend then there is really nothing else to do to your stock system.

If you're hot to do a lot more then you are going to be looking at a complete aftermarket upgrade - there are several great threads on this site that dig into that conversation and will answer you every question.
luck

 

[MtHam ACR]

Jason Ward wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My experience has shown me that the stock pads will fade long before fresh brake fluid starts boiling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some elaboration please?

The pads are solid and can't themselves fail unless there is some mechanical or manufacturing defect. (The only pad anomaly I'm aware of is 'gas-out' which can happen to high temp pads during bedding or, if improperly bedded, in the early life of the pads generally during heavy braking. As I understand it, initial heating of the pads cause a gas discharge resulting in declining of braking efficiency until the source material is expended. Stock pads don't generally gas-out.)

Otherwise the system that moves the pad against the rotor has to be compromised in order to get fade. (The "why" it compromised is a different discussion, I'm asking about the "what" here.)

Eric

 

[Roland L-Ocala FL]

Looks like Motul brake fluid it is, thanks for the info guys, I only go to have fun, and only make about 10 laps a time at the Gingerman, maybe twice a year, that's it. I just don't want to go for the brake pedal one day, and find it goes right to the floor, especially with a joy rider on board!
Thanks again. The pads look like they have a lot of wear still left in them, but will keep checking for wear.

 

[GTS Dean]

I will agree that Motul is a decent fluid, but that's mainly because it it so easy to find. Nearly any motorcycle shop keeps plenty in stock.

However, if you are serious about your brake performance at the track, dump you Motul and get AP600 or Castrol SRF. Here are a few photos that provide ample testimonial to the virtues of AP600 and the necessity of moving air into - AND OUT OF - the wheelwells.

Here's a (clean) shot of my Aeroquip brakelines and Dilusi's Porsche deflector kit.

You must be registered for see images

Here are photos after my last track foray to the PCA event at the 3.5 mile / 13-turn Cabaniss NAS in Corpus Christi.

You must be registered for see images

This one shows how much work is being done by the front brakes, and shows my wheelwell cutouts to vent hot air thru the hood air extractors.

You must be registered for see images

Here's a shot that shows the EXTREME temperatures (1100F +) generated on the STOCK rotors, which melted the outboard ends of the air deflectors and cooked my ball joint seals. The outboard caliper temps were at 440F immediately after exiting the track from an extended lapping session.

You must be registered for see images

Here's a closeup of the rotor after 4 weekends and about 500 miles of heavy use with Brakeman #3 and #4 compounds. They just now need to be turned to remove the scoring.

You must be registered for see images

Stock calipers (with Ti pistons), fluid has not been touched (or bled) since November and I have 2 heavy weekends and 2 sets of pads on it.

 

[Janni]

Listen to Dean... Motul has long been a hit with the motorcycle crowd. Its pretty good fluid, but the bikes have a much easier time dissipating the heat than we do. The AP Racing Fluid is the fluid of choice without going to SRF. Most NASCAR shops and other motorsports operations are running the AP, NOT the Motul. FWIW, we've seen similar temps and not had a problem - titanium pistons, Porsche defectors, no additional cooling. (Dean - havea solution for melted ball joint shields - ours are all still OK, and its a light weight, non-invasive adder... - email me)