Quick Mobil 1 Question.....

[SRTRICKY]

I went to pick up some mobil 1 oil to get my oil changed by my mechanic that will be doing my exhaust work tomorrow but the 10w30 oil that I went to get says "for higher millage vehicles" on it. I went to the dodge dealership and Canadian Tire! Both have the same oil! I want to put in 10w30 becuase thats what the car came with from factory instead of the 0w30 or is it 40? Anyways some quick help would be appreciated. Do I just go with this "higher millage vehicle" formula or do I actaully need to find some that doesn't say that? (They had 5w30 that said for new vehicles)
Ricky

 

[Y2K5SRT]

The factory recommended fill as of 2005 is 0W-40 (Mobil 1). Here is what our resident oil guru (Tom, F&L GoR) had to say about it when it was first discovered last year:

A 0W-40 would be an excellent choice. The "0W" characteristic would ensure good pumpability at low temperatures and reduce oil pump effort (power) to push the fluid through the engine. The "40" characteristic ensures good support in hydrodynamic bearings - cranks and rods.

I am somewhat suprised, though, because an SAE xxW-40 viscosity grade is almost physically impossible to achieve the fuel economy requirement for ILSAC GF-4, the requirement coming out for the 2005 model year. This is the round symbol on the front of most bottles that indicates the oil has met the OEM designed fuel efficiency and emissions system compatibility requirements. EPA gets involved in this because it affects the on-road fuel economy (i.e. the window sticker MPG figures are usually produced using ILSAC qualified oils) and the longevity of the emissions performance (some additives in oil are blamed for catalyst poisoning, so the ILSAC specification limits how much you can use.) Not having an ILSAC type oil as a factory fill or dealer addition oil is going to create a lot of political attention if the car is a US-market car.

I give Mobil credit if they have met the fuel efficiency requirement with the 0W-40 grade.

A less costly alternative is to look for synthetic diesel engine oil in the 5W-40 grade. It's got all the credentials and more. Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo all have a 5W-40 that may be a little hard to find, but aren't $9/qt either.

Here is the full thread on it - sounds like 0W-40 is the way to go for ALL SRT-10's!

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21&Number=451225

 

[SRTRICKY]

Chris,
My car says factory fill with 10w30... I don't want to run into any problems thats why I wanted to fill it up with the 10w30. What I was wondering is why it says "for higher millage vehicles" on the front of it!

Will I have any warrenty issues?

 

[Steve-Indy]

SRTRICKY, what you are finding is a NEW formulation with more of the molybdenum than "SuperSyn" by my recollection. I'm NOT SURE if Mobil plans to continue the older "SuperSyn" formulation...fortunately, I still have a supply of the original "SuperSyn".

Chris makes a good point about the factory fill for the 2005 Vipers being a good alternative for the earlier SRT-10's. I doubt that you will find a TSB or other official confirmation of same by D-C...at least in the near future ( and YES, I had a Viper Tech check on this exact issue with D-C via his computer tech support connections...to no avail). I will certainly be watching to see what Mobil and/or Dodge say about this in the future.

 

[Viper Specialty]

SRTRICKY- The Mobil 1 10W-30 hich says "for higher mileage vehicles" is the older packaging. they have since changed it to read something along the lines of "multi purpose"... even though it is the same oil as what came in your car from the factory. I do however recomend going with the 05 0W-40 fill, it will even slightly quiet the lifter tick and increase oil pressure a few pounds.

 

[SRTRICKY]

Steve so are the two products the same? Since the older formula that doesn't say "for higher millage vehicles" is no longer available does this mean you can just use the one that says "for higher millage vehicles"

On another note I'm trying my ass off to find 0w40 oil and can't find it

 

[Finally got it !]

On another note I'm trying my ass off to find 0w40 oil and can't find it

They are screwing with you. There is a extra jug behind the passenger seat...

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I found 0W-40 Mobil 1 at Walmart...

 

[SRTRICKY]

I called Walmart and there acting like there's no such thing as 0w-40...I heard "Imperial Oil" might have it so I"ll check there tomorrow (a good hour and a bit trip just get oil)! So my understanding is the 0w40 oil will say "Europeon car Formula" on the front?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

In the US quart bottle:

You must be registered for see images

And in your Canadian Litre:

You must be registered for see images

Read all about it:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-40.asp

It is apparently the factory fill for such cars as Aston Martin and all AMG models...

 

[SRTRICKY]

Thanks Chris

 

[SRTRICKY]

Will 12 quarts be enough?

 

[Viper Specialty]

11 will be enough

 

[Frank 03SRT]

The SRT 8 also requires 0-40. It was not available in the KC area until about 2 weeks ago, but was at the dealer at twice the price. Advance (where I bought some two weeks ago) has it as well as Walmart, and I am sure it is coming into other stores now.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Guys, the truth is that every 3 or so years the API engine oil categories change, and every same number the European ACEA oil categories change. A formulation that meets both is obviously a constantly evolving recipe, whether the label changes pictures on the front or not. Add in that the oil marketer may have two suppliers of additive packagers that both meet the same performance or different base oil suppliers (to lower logistical costs) and you can have many different versions of the same thing. A little less likely with a low volume synthetic oil, but it all depends on costs.

Don't get too hung up on the issue of "requires" a 0W-40. Any oil that meets the specifications is fine and legal. The owners manual should show what those are. And if it is factory fill, the dealership should have some.

 

[Brian E]

In northern Indiana, Sams Club has the Mobil 1 10w-30 and Autozone carries the Mobil 1 0w-40.

 

[Steve-Indy]

SRTRICKY, here's a link that answers a few questions regarding the differences between Mobil 1 10W-30 and the NEW Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30...noting that I am using just the Mobil 1 10W-30 in our Vipers that are under warranty at this point.

See the fine print in the link as it references "warranty" and "GF-4" for the "Extended Performance" product.


https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1

Interestingly, my nearby Wal-Mart seems to be letting their stock of the 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 10W-30 fall, while stocking plenty of the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 in the 5 quart jugs (at about $4.00 more per jug !!!).

At this point, I'm using my year old SuperSyn til I get more info on the Extended Performance stuff.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Guys, the truth is that every 3 or so years the API engine oil categories change, and every same number the European ACEA oil categories change. A formulation that meets both is obviously a constantly evolving recipe, whether the label changes pictures on the front or not. Add in that the oil marketer may have two suppliers of additive packagers that both meet the same performance or different base oil suppliers (to lower logistical costs) and you can have many different versions of the same thing. A little less likely with a low volume synthetic oil, but it all depends on costs.

Don't get too hung up on the issue of "requires" a 0W-40. Any oil that meets the specifications is fine and legal. The owners manual should show what those are. And if it is factory fill, the dealership should have some.

Tom, I guess you are saying anything that meets the API, etc., specs is sufficient, as long as it is close to the recommended weight?? If true, that is comforting if I am ever out in the wilds and need a quart of oil, knowing that 0-40 may not be available in Dinkytown, Kan.

 

[TedK]

This has always driven me nuts. Look at these two oil tables, both from a 1999 Chevy shop manual. US & Canada different from the rest of the world? You can't tell me the engines are made differently. This seems to support Tom's assertion that any oil meeting specs will be OK.

 

[SRTRICKY]

Okay so I thought the Dodge Dealership might have it so I'd give them a call this morning and the service rep said that he doesn't recommend going to 0w40 on the 04's becuase there could be warrenty issues down the road!

Can they give me problems if I run into warrenty problems down the road?

 

[Steve-Indy]

I doubt it...BUT, I really don't know. What you have just been told by a service rep ("right" or "wrong") is precisely why I personally stick with factory fill fluids on our Vipers still under warranty. Owners that have different needs, demands, wishes, experience can make their OWN, informed (hopefully) decisions as to the products they use...especially if cars are seeing "performance" (i.e. racing)applications. Just for kicks, I am sending in a sample of the new Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 to my favorite lab for analysis...straight out of the container...should be a good baseline in case I ever consider using it.

 

[SRTRICKY]

I am heading to the dealership in about an hour and getting 10w30 done as well now. When I get the paxton supercharger put on I'll switch over to 0w40! Thanks for everyones help anyways

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

In the US/Canada, OEMs must comply with EPA and CAFE standards, which means they trade off any benefit of higher viscosity or some additive chemistries with passing emissions and fuel economy tests. No, the engines aren't different, often the service isn't different, just the sacrifice the consumers make.

It's silly, because the fuel economy gains from 0W-20 oil can be small but they take the actuarial risk. Another silly feature is the chemical limits on some oil additives- the OEMs have yet to demonstrate a peer-reviewed acceptable engine test that shows the additives they want to limit actually do poison catalytic converters.

Lastly, an OEM cannot spec only one oil for your car, and if they did, they'd have to give it to you free (US anti-competitive regulations.) For warranty claims with other oils, the burden of proof is on the dealer/OEM to show that the oil caused the problem; you can't have a warranty withheld due to "bystander" use of an oil.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Okay so I thought the Dodge Dealership might have it so I'd give them a call this morning and the service rep said that he doesn't recommend going to 0w40 on the 04's because there could be warranty issues down the road!

Which simply means that they don't stock 0W-40. Bet on it. And when you get the bill for your oil change from that same dealer, make sure you don't faint. Then you will see why they came up with that lame "warranty" deal. "Recommended" is NOT "required" (as Tom pointed out), and it would appear that both Tom & Dodge agree on the 0W-40 being a slightly better oil for the SRT-10. Regardless, you will do just fine with any of these oils. Be sure to let us know what the dealership charges you for the oil change.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

My mistake for starting (I think) the "required" word. In actuality, the SRT8 manual says 0-40 is "preferred", but 5-40 is acceptable, as Tom says above, but either is "recommended".

How's that for some added "clarity".

 

[SRTRICKY]

I didn't end up getting an appointment today! They said I have two choices after I told them what you said. They said you can go with 5w30 (or maybe he said 5w40) OR 10w30. NOT 0w40. I can pick up 0W40 from a shop thats about 30 mins there 30 mins back and have no problem with that. Maybe I'll just do that tomorrow! On the other hand they want $14.40 litre for 10w30 So either way I'll be going to walmart to pick up 10w30 or Imperial Oil to pick up 0w40

 

[ViperRay]

This may be a silly question but, if you do your own oil changes how would Dodge know what oil you put in the engine if you just tell them "why factory fill, of course!"

Are you saying that they actually analyze the oil if a warranty claim arises that could be linked to oil, even after you tell them you use 10w30?

 

[SRTRICKY]

This may be a silly question but, if you do your own oil changes how would Dodge know what oil you put in the engine if you just tell them "why factory fill, of course!"

Are you saying that they actually analyze the oil if a warranty claim arises that could be linked to oil, even after you tell them you use 10w30?

If there doing it for you they might know. Or if your like me I have decided to get someone I can trust who works at the dealership my brother works at (Volkswagon) to do it for me and they give me an invoice of everything they did! So if a problem arises I can just show them the invoices with everything done and on the invoice it will say the oil grade and brand.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Some of you may have heard of a Toyota engine field problem when many were crapping out with excesive sludge. There's an example of the oil not holding up, which may have been due to marginal oil quality, slightly extended oil drains, or something a little wrong about the engine design.

Toyota could have blamed the oil, but then they'd have to specify something better that API performance. They could have blamed the driver for delaying oil changes, but then they'd have to prove it in each case. They ended up with replacing some engines, and I believe extending the warranty period because of the bad press.

But yes, if I were a dealer I would at least submit the oil for some analysis to make sure than the oil used wasn't an API SA or SB (no additives!) quality chainsaw bar oil. A $15 test on an engine replacement might be worth it.

The point is that US OEMs have a different "stick" than Euro OEMs. In the US, OEMs dictate to the oil companies what tests go into the API service category requirements. Some are reasonable, some are silly. In the end, they win. Then they tell consumers to change the oil at 3000 miles, a huge safety margin - and why not? It's free insurance for the OEM. In Europe, the OEMs have different specs for each brand, frequently each model. Drivers essentially have to have a shop or dealer change the oil and document it, or risk not being able to sell the car later (because the purchaser will want to see the maintenance records.) In this system, cars can go for 12,000 to 15,000 miles on a drain, because it's recognized the oils are "tuned" for the engine, the service, and the drain interval. Drain intervals have become marketing tools, and nobody goes 15,001 miles.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Drain intervals have become marketing tools, and nobody goes 15,001 miles.

...except me. With oil analysis, I have routinely gone around 20,000 miles between changes since the 70's. But then ..I don't use Mobil 1. I use 0W-30 in the Viper,change around 6,000 miles, and always get it analyzed.

...Just had to get that in there Tom.

Steve