My father had a 4 speed automatic put into his TT SRT Vert. It was cool but very unsafe IMO, especially with boost. I can't remember the dyno numbers but if memory serves my correct he lost around 100WHP or more going from the factory 6 speed to the automatic. While with ****ty drivers the auto was faster, with a good driver the 6 speed will win. Keep in mind this was a drag racing automatic with a 12 1/2" torque converter.
Ralph wants/needs an automatic
- Thread starter I Bin Therbefor
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05Commemorative
Enthusiast
I think we were just talking about having an automatic as an option, right? You make a great point that many today view a manual as extremely old archaic technology. (ie roll-up windows). Why would I have a manual that I need to shift myself when I can have a modern transmission that is more performance, better gas mileage and easier to drive in all conditions? When you think about it that way, it does makes sense. The Viper is wild enough, an auto is not the thing to tame it. It just might make it more approachable for many though and that is a key to selling more.I think what I might miss more than a shifter is actually the clutch. I like having the control and being able to modulate the power or quickly disconnect the engine from the wheels when needed. A clutch "switch" still sort of exists potentially with paddles, but I think it tends to be more of an on-off deal, so no real modulation. Slick conditions, for instance, are nice to have the ability to scale back engine power with a little clutch slipping.
Say in the wild world of make believe that they make a Viper option with a V8 and an auto and they price it at $50-60k like a Vette. Suddenly there's huge demand and they start pumping cars out at much larger volumes (would probably take a while to scale up, but let's play along). Suddenly seeing a Viper going down the road potentially becomes a daily occurance and you can't tell it from it's V10 big brother easily (kind of like a Z06). I'm not sure what I would think at that point. I've always liked the Viper because it only came in one flavor, fast. If you see a Viper, you know it's a race bred sports car, you're not trying to guess what they have under the hood. It's an experience for most people. Lambo had a similar issue with the Gallardo. Prior to it's release they only built hundreds of cars a year, after it, it was more like thousands per year. Owning one may become a little less special for some people depending on how numbers scale up.
I look at it this way. Lots of kids these days don't even know they make cars you have to shift by hand. It's almost a theft prevention device. I actually read an article a while back where someone car jacked a Vette and didn't know how to drive it because it was a stick. They thieves actually asked the owner what the deal was and he said "uh, it's a manual" and they just looked at him funny. Plus, if you see a chick driving a Viper you know she knows how to drive a stick.
I don't buy the big cost difference though. trannies already exist today that will work.
viperbilliam
Enthusiast
No, the cost of the auto is a big deal for the Viper with its very low volume. You might be right if Chrysler was able to make this out of the parts bin but I highly doubt that for the Viper application. Could SRT make something that would work across the entire SRT line? Not at existing price points and already the Viper isn't doing that well with its current price. Could the auto option open up the market enough at this price point? I doubt it but I'd like to be wrong.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
We are not referring to a custom transmission only for the viper. These transmissions already exists. It is not a horsepower or torque issue. AMG has a whole line that can handle it. Bolt pattern? don't think that is a big issue.
chorps
Enthusiast
I bet most, if not all, of the AMG ones are torque managed down low so the transmission doesn't go flying apart.
viperbilliam
Enthusiast
I'm not talking about a custom tranny; it will cost Chrysler a bunch to develop one for this application because autos are expensive to manufacture - way more than a manual. This isn't a problem at Lambo price points. AMG - this would be the best case for an analogy but even their volumes are quite a bit more than the Viper. Their high hp applications also have a significantly higher price point. I agree it's not a hp/torque issue - just economics.
To repeat my post - why bother "competing" with anyone? I
dont think the Viper was ever in a sales competition with
anybody, Vettes included. Its a precision tool designed for use
by a very specific customer.
Think of it this way - the viper is like the toughest, strongest,
simplest prostetic leg on the market. Very few people need
prostectic legs, and even less need one designed to take real
abuse. So why then would SRT add a titanium balancing unit
and battery operated sandwich cooler to it?
When I need a hammer I buy a hammer - I am not going to
pay $90 for the "best" hammer in the store just because its
the best.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
What exactly do you think the Viper is? (ie, your description of a prostetic leg).
Isn't it a sport car. I think of it as a track car, but others auto cross it, drag it, show it, etc. So, I guess not sure how different than a vette, 911, R8 which people do all those same things.
The point still remains very valid to this thread, how in the world is it possible a $100k car does not have paddle-shifters as an option when well over60% of the cars sold in this segment offer it. I don't buy the "cost" statement as the tranny's already exist.
Ahem...
I don't think I could have been more clear.
Just because 60% of the market offers it does not mean 100%
of potential viper buyers WANT it. Hell, from what I read not
even 60% of the Porsche or Ferrari guys wanted it - but had to
take it because the europeans decided they were going to like
it... or else...
I mean think about it - 100% of GenVs are being sold with
traction control...
And just because a transmission "exisits" doesnt mean -
1) It will fit.
2) It will meet safety and emissions standards.
3) It wont require a complete chassis redesign.
4) It wont require an interior redesign.
5) It will meet warranty specifications for duribility.
Meeting these (and other) engineering issues costs companies big
dollars. Dollars SRT doesnt have and (in my opinion) shouldnt be
wasting their time considering.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Actually, you could be much more clear. Give it a shot and explain what "Its a precision tool designed for use by a very specific customer." exactly means? Who is that specific customer and what is the precision tool part? I am sure you have an opinion so good to spell it out vs thinking you have the only answer that is somehow obvious.
I think you are missing a major point, it is not 60% of the market offers, but instead it is what is demanded now in this segment. big difference. We can choose to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't so, but if you were responsible for selling these cars, it would be pretty obvious. Just because you may not want it really does not matter. What matters is what a bigger segment of the population want to buy.
Ask how many of those Ferrari and Porsche buyers would go back to a manual? Not sure how the traction control comments is related, but I guess you think it is very clear to all of us.
Lastly, sure it cost engineering $$ for this, but if I wanted to double my sales volume, I would easily make the investment. We are not talking brain surgery, just putting an automatic in a car which is a very well understood engineering task.
I think you are missing a major point, it is not 60% of the market offers, but instead it is what is demanded now in this segment. big difference. We can choose to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't so, but if you were responsible for selling these cars, it would be pretty obvious. Just because you may not want it really does not matter. What matters is what a bigger segment of the population want to buy.
Ask how many of those Ferrari and Porsche buyers would go back to a manual? Not sure how the traction control comments is related, but I guess you think it is very clear to all of us.
Lastly, sure it cost engineering $$ for this, but if I wanted to double my sales volume, I would easily make the investment. We are not talking brain surgery, just putting an automatic in a car which is a very well understood engineering task.
I Bin Therbefor
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My understanding is that the modern ATs that are "available" to team Viper that would bolt on in the present location of the manual won't fit. To maintain the AT in the present location of the manual would call for a redesign of the chassis. I don't know if such a redesign can be accomplished and still maintain the existing hard points. A sort of swap the chassis bolt in. You don't want to have to go redesigning everything and/or repositioning everything. Government safety tests would have to be redone in any case. IMO if that is done, I'd like to see some work on the driver foot well.
Moving the trans to the rear, either in front of or behind the differential, or mounting a true transaxel reproportions the car and calls a car forward design. That's not going to happen. The cab forward design was considered during the design for reintroduction process and was rejected, according to Ralph.
Are there other ATs on the market that are "not available" to team Viper that would fit?
Moving the trans to the rear, either in front of or behind the differential, or mounting a true transaxel reproportions the car and calls a car forward design. That's not going to happen. The cab forward design was considered during the design for reintroduction process and was rejected, according to Ralph.
Are there other ATs on the market that are "not available" to team Viper that would fit?
The people who originally bought the viper, and the people who
kept it after the first six months of ownership, basically wanted
an anti-corvette. A fast, two seater that consisted of nothing more
than a motor glued to some wheels. Hell, the Gen1s didnt even
come with roofs or windows and they still sold better than the
GenV does now. True Viper guys - the ones who will buy the car
and keep it long enough to build a rapport with the manufacturer
(as opposed to the poser who like to show up at starbucks with
a "viper" and sell off the moment it scares them = negative
publicity) dont want a car that can be confused with a Porsche
or Audi, or Ferrari - if they wanted any of those, at the current
GenV prices they can simply buy them.
Sure we complain about leaks and plastic interiors, but none of
us would trade the car in for those issues - we would only trade
in for a faster car IF we could afford it.
I am saying your wrong - making the Viper MORE difficult to work on
and adding MORE technology would bitter the taste of the car to the
guys who built the legacy. I mean seriously - take a look at the GenV
forums - #1 ***** is about a locked out COMPUTER, #2 limited
modification options.
No matter how much you suger coat the Viper Porsche guys are not
going to buy it. No matter how much tech you put in Ferrari guys are
not going to be seen in it. And at the current MSRP Corvette guys
simply laugh. There is no "sales market" outside of the people who
STOOD IN LINE to buy a car without DOOR HANDLES - you cannot
tell me these folks will be happier to open their wallet for a vehicle
that nicely blends in with 60% of the market.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
I believe the big flaw with your logic is the people you speak of are a super rare and even rarer today than 20yrs ago. What was once viewed as acceptable is no longer the case. btw, Never heard of an automatic as a hi-tech item with big maint? come one, been making them for years...
Seriously, you give too much credit to the early cars/buyers. We both know most of them barely knew how to drive the dang things then, so were they posers? That was exactly my point on your clarity of who it was designed for. I don't agree with you and have had a Viper for years. Have had Corvettes and even a AC Shelby cobra. I get the lineage you speak of, I really do. I am just pressing the point that different opinions exist. You are confusing the nostalgia of the originals and their buyers 20yrs ago to today. The car is a fantastic road course car, but a small % use them or have the ability to use them that way. Nothing wrong with that as others drag race them or auto cross them and then a bigger majority just drive them. Your "poser" comment surely applies to some, but I would not categorize everyone that would not deal with the poor quality and livability with the car as a poser. To me, the poser is the guys that rattles of it's HP #'s in the first sentence. A poser is the guy that feels the need to open the hood for folks to see as a first order of business. A poser is the guy that feels a burnout is the cool thing to do. So, even there, we might have a difference of opinion on the Viper "poser".
At the end of the day, we are 20yrs removed from the audience you mention and a good chance a majority of them either don't have the money, interest or even the same requirements they did 20yrs ago. Oh, and those folks are all 20yrs older. So for kicks, lets say the avg age of those original vipers you mention was 40yrs old (I suspect older), that means they are in their 60's today? If I am building a Viper today, I would not have my target audience is not 60 yr olds... The core age group needs to be the the mid 30's-50's to make a business of it and keep it going. Reality is the requirements have changed. btw, not referring to Ferraris or Lambo's as that is a totally different price range. But in this 100-140k price range, you must look at the competition of Audi R8's, 911's, zo6/zr1 corvettes, GTR's. It is not the base corvette, Mustang or Camaro, but those are surely available if you want cheap car with big horsepower as they have always been.
Don't get me wrong, I love all Gen Vipers and the aspects about them during their time periods. I am just not a believer that doing things the same way (big HP, cheap interior, so so quality) is the winning formula in today's world. I love the manual and everything about it, but if you stuffed in a paddle shifter that made it faster on the track (it would), easier to drive for the masses on the street (it would), and sold more cars so the production of the car could still live on and you did this as an option, Why would you not do it? Because of some 20yr history of who we think are "true viper guys"? Man, I hope not. Lets please move forward and embrace technology that makes the car better and allows it to compete for the buyers that are interested.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
I haven't read most of the comments here, but know how my own deliberation on this went leading up to ordering a TA earlier this week. I would have liked the Viper to have had as many sought after features as possible. That included an optional DCT. I would want the car to receive as much praise, respect and envy as possible. I wanted to buy the best supercar available. I wasn't sure I'd have actually wanted a DCT, but might have to make it easier for my wife for the rare times she'd drive it around town. I might have even ordered the DCT thinking it would be just a bit quicker on the track, like it would really make any difference compared to the impact of the driver on lap times. But I don't know if I could have discarded the at the limit performance driving skill acquired from years of experience on the track. I tried over the last two years tracking a car with an auto box, and most recently shifting exclusively with the paddles. That was really impressive, effortless, quite the novelty...and felt totally wrong, and like I was cheating. Once the novelty wore off I realized that I just didn't have the full satisfaction of having driven it well using all of my skills. I felt like I had not only cheated against my friends that were tracking and driving the old fashion way, but that the car had cheated me out of the full experience and satisfaction that comes from fully driving it yourself. I realized that I didn't want to run great laps and credit the computers... I wanted the satisfaction that it was all me. I want to be challenged on the track, I don't want anything made artificially easier for me. I've chosen to track without traction control for years, I've turned off stability control as soon as I've become competent on a new track, or in a new car. Heightened driver involvement means increased enjoyment for me, and I've chosen that for years.
I wonder if occasional pain in my left knee will lead to me requiring an auto in the future, and I can certainly understand choosing one for that reason, or so the wife can drive it, or if you find yourself in stop and go traffic frequently, or you don't have the skills, or desire to learn the skills involved in high performance driving with a stick. But I don't think those folks are the ones that Ralph and team were worried about when designing the Viper. In fact, I don't think he wanted the car watered down in any way. I think they'd rather buck the trends, give the finger to nanny worshipers, stay true to the bare of bones approach to performance that has always been, and maintain it's credentials as an exotic car that a relatively few will enjoy. They have a single vision to build it for the race track enthusiast, to make it the fastest and most rewarding car to track, and they have 100% met that goal...with the traditional 6 speed. There's no DCT's out there ***** slapping the Gen V, and may never be because of the tranny. One day they will feel the need to offer a DCT, but up until now I think they've been focusing on all those things that have a much more significant impact on track performance...and I'm glad they did.
So in the end I was delighted to be able to buy such a well-sorted and capable car for both the street and track, and the extra effort and skill required to drive with a stick is completely welcomed. Ralph and team has never sought Viper buyers before that needed or wanted an automatic, and has turned those away for years. He's still doing that now, and I can understand that some prospective buyers don't like that. I'm also pretty certain that most of those who want to purchase the Viper for all the right reasons will buy it regardless of tranny preference. But I think we can count on SRT offering a DCT in the Viper right around the same time Chris Harris and Randy Pobst types start saying they need one to increase the thrill of driving or to be competitive on track ... or maybe even sooner if Gen V sales numbers make that financially feasible, and enough of their core buyers demand it. I imagine if they dropped the manual like Porsche did on the GT3 that they'd be criticized for that. Appealing to prospective buyers is a tough job. Many complain when the car changes in some type of ways, and others complain when it doesn't. Must be especially tough when trying to build such a low volume car.
Bruce
I wonder if occasional pain in my left knee will lead to me requiring an auto in the future, and I can certainly understand choosing one for that reason, or so the wife can drive it, or if you find yourself in stop and go traffic frequently, or you don't have the skills, or desire to learn the skills involved in high performance driving with a stick. But I don't think those folks are the ones that Ralph and team were worried about when designing the Viper. In fact, I don't think he wanted the car watered down in any way. I think they'd rather buck the trends, give the finger to nanny worshipers, stay true to the bare of bones approach to performance that has always been, and maintain it's credentials as an exotic car that a relatively few will enjoy. They have a single vision to build it for the race track enthusiast, to make it the fastest and most rewarding car to track, and they have 100% met that goal...with the traditional 6 speed. There's no DCT's out there ***** slapping the Gen V, and may never be because of the tranny. One day they will feel the need to offer a DCT, but up until now I think they've been focusing on all those things that have a much more significant impact on track performance...and I'm glad they did.
So in the end I was delighted to be able to buy such a well-sorted and capable car for both the street and track, and the extra effort and skill required to drive with a stick is completely welcomed. Ralph and team has never sought Viper buyers before that needed or wanted an automatic, and has turned those away for years. He's still doing that now, and I can understand that some prospective buyers don't like that. I'm also pretty certain that most of those who want to purchase the Viper for all the right reasons will buy it regardless of tranny preference. But I think we can count on SRT offering a DCT in the Viper right around the same time Chris Harris and Randy Pobst types start saying they need one to increase the thrill of driving or to be competitive on track ... or maybe even sooner if Gen V sales numbers make that financially feasible, and enough of their core buyers demand it. I imagine if they dropped the manual like Porsche did on the GT3 that they'd be criticized for that. Appealing to prospective buyers is a tough job. Many complain when the car changes in some type of ways, and others complain when it doesn't. Must be especially tough when trying to build such a low volume car.
Bruce
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emericr
Enthusiast
I will second what 05Commemorative has said.
As long as there is an option for a manual, it should keep most of you guys happy. However, I think the days of the manual are counted. Who would have thought a P GT3 would only come with an auto box? I am not saying that is what should happen but it appears that it is the trend.
A DCT/Auto transmission is the future (and the way I would buy one):
For daily driving and the better half, it is easier
For the track it is faster.
For the drag, it is faster.
SRT will still leave you the ability to take the nannies off. I just came off 2 days of track at Laguna Seca in an SLS and I can tell you I did not miss a third pedal. I needed all my attention to keep the car on the road and hit the Apex the right way. Agreed that I am noob on the track.
AMG has auto boxes that handle 1,100 from the factory (on the SL65) so it can be done.
Aston just partnered with AMG for their engines. If SRT does not think it can make one internally, just partner with Ferrari or someone else.
I am not a doomsday kind of guy but SRT needs to evolve otherwise it will not survive. At the end of the day, you need customers to buy the product you make.
Look at all the small English car manufacturers, most of them are history and even Aston has struggled.
I want the Viper to survive as I see one day buying one but evolution is running its course whether you like it or not.
As long as there is an option for a manual, it should keep most of you guys happy. However, I think the days of the manual are counted. Who would have thought a P GT3 would only come with an auto box? I am not saying that is what should happen but it appears that it is the trend.
A DCT/Auto transmission is the future (and the way I would buy one):
For daily driving and the better half, it is easier
For the track it is faster.
For the drag, it is faster.
SRT will still leave you the ability to take the nannies off. I just came off 2 days of track at Laguna Seca in an SLS and I can tell you I did not miss a third pedal. I needed all my attention to keep the car on the road and hit the Apex the right way. Agreed that I am noob on the track.
AMG has auto boxes that handle 1,100 from the factory (on the SL65) so it can be done.
Aston just partnered with AMG for their engines. If SRT does not think it can make one internally, just partner with Ferrari or someone else.
I am not a doomsday kind of guy but SRT needs to evolve otherwise it will not survive. At the end of the day, you need customers to buy the product you make.
Look at all the small English car manufacturers, most of them are history and even Aston has struggled.
I want the Viper to survive as I see one day buying one but evolution is running its course whether you like it or not.
I Bin Therbefor
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One point. In several interviews Ralph has clearly stated he needed an AT. Need is his word, not mine. He never said, instead of a manual. 
He always says that Viper is basically a two line car, the SRT closer to the original basic car concept, and the GTS a move to a new buyer. He also says that there will be lots of unique models, such as the new anodized carbon model. My desire for an auto has to do with ease of driving and that my wife has knee problems that are irritated by a manual. Both of us learned on manuals as children, a long time ago. But we'd like to share the Viper.
He always says that Viper is basically a two line car, the SRT closer to the original basic car concept, and the GTS a move to a new buyer. He also says that there will be lots of unique models, such as the new anodized carbon model. My desire for an auto has to do with ease of driving and that my wife has knee problems that are irritated by a manual. Both of us learned on manuals as children, a long time ago. But we'd like to share the Viper.ViperSmith
Enthusiast
"Viper Guys" aren't buying the current Gen V and they bought the Gen IV in very limited quantities. So, even with what everyone considers the "marvel" the Gen IV to be, people weren't writing checks. It was still pretty true to the "heritage" you speak of.
Personally, I think the Viper needs to evolve beyond that if it wants to remain competitive in 2014. This isn't 1992 anymore where building a bare bones sports car with 400HP wins virtually every performance category anymore. People need to stop living in the good ole days, because we are far beyond them. The competition is immense, there is massive amounts of cash being spent to just do one thing very well.
I think the biggest thing holding the Viper back are people boxing it into "it needs to always be a long nosed, rear wheel drive, 10 cyl, 8L+, MT car" - yes, I love my Gen V to death and it is everything I personally ever expected a Viper to be - but it is time for the Viper to evolve a bit. It can still be a monster - I have great faith in good old American innovation - but time to move forward.
Applause. Very well written. Don't worry about your knee. My left knee is bone on bone from osteo arthritis. The new clutch is so light I barely feel it. Because it is so light and I am still adjusting to it, I have stalled the car twice. LOL. This car is different. It learns your style even more. It has adapted to me a bit more each day. This is a significant part of the recommended 500 mile break in process. The car is almost a symbiotic mechanism. I have never felt so in touch with a vehicle. It is a bit odd but I like it.
I will throw my two cents in here as a novice Viper owner. The Viper was always the only car I had ever wanted. When I finally had the opportunity to buy one, at age 28, I did. Not only was it my first sports car, it was the first vehicle I had ever bought (I was still driving my truck which was a graduation gift from my parents), and my first manual transmission. It was also the first Viper I had ever seen up close. That sounds a little intimidating. And it was. But nothing was going to keep me from owning my dream car. Why did I love the Viper before I ever even sat in one? 8.0L, V10, raw power, American Muscle, exclusivity. I understand Dodge/SRT adding the nannies and the technology, and that doesn't necessarily take away from it being a Viper. But, when you mess with the 8.0+L, the V10, the power, the "America" about the car, thats when it becomes less of being a Viper and loses what made it was it is. Like someone said in an article I have read, "The Viper is a one car parade." No car gets the attention of a Viper and I would like to keep it that way. Its like there is a curiosity about the car, a mystery. And its not just because the looks, its because the unrefined nature of the car.
I have driven several sports cars. Porsche 911 Turbos, Cayman Ss, ZR1s, Z06s, many AMGs. They are all great cars, but they are much less challenging to drive. Even as a novice sports car owner, I enjoy the challenge of driving a Viper. The last Porsche I drove was a 2013 911 Turbo S. It was fast, it handled great, and it has all the tech you could ever want. But it was wasnt fun. It basically drove for you. Sure, if its your daily driver then that may be best, but most people arent driving Vipers daily.
So, if they want to keep the Viper going, a DCT/traction control/stability control/etc may be needed as an option, but never lose the 8+ liters, the 10 cylinders, and the big horsepower. It will just turn into another Vette and we cant have that.
I have driven several sports cars. Porsche 911 Turbos, Cayman Ss, ZR1s, Z06s, many AMGs. They are all great cars, but they are much less challenging to drive. Even as a novice sports car owner, I enjoy the challenge of driving a Viper. The last Porsche I drove was a 2013 911 Turbo S. It was fast, it handled great, and it has all the tech you could ever want. But it was wasnt fun. It basically drove for you. Sure, if its your daily driver then that may be best, but most people arent driving Vipers daily.
So, if they want to keep the Viper going, a DCT/traction control/stability control/etc may be needed as an option, but never lose the 8+ liters, the 10 cylinders, and the big horsepower. It will just turn into another Vette and we cant have that.
That is true except for one BIG issue youve forgotten about:
The GenIVs unfortunately still looked alot like the Gen3s, which
still looked alot like the S2ooo....
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Gen3's were the best selling vipers (avg # of sales per year produced), so the Gen4 statement above makes no sense. Reality is the economy had an effect, adding a 100hp and better tires helped the car be better, but not enough to satisfy customer demands/desires that were changing. It should have been the obvious first warning that a bare bones car with high HP was not going to be enough anymore...
So, can you tell us again why having an auto in the car as an option is a bad thing?
For the sake of argument when you say "auto" please specify if you mean real auto with torque converter or a DCT. I think on the fencers will support a DCT. It's the other legitimate auto that we don't want. even being offered.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Good point BigDawg. I think of it this way:
1) for me to "consider" purchasing the option, it would have to be DCT for the perf increase.
2) to sell more cars (if I was SRT), it would not matter. They could put in the 8sp they already have access to, (non DCT), which is still a great tranny, they would still sell many more cars. Heck, the new vette has the 6sp auto in it and more than 60% will be choosing it over the manual.
Obviously, option #1 would be my preference.
johniew398
Enthusiast
I have always said I wouldn't want a Viper with an auto/DCT; however, after driving my wife's SL550 the past couple of days and playing around with the 7 speed auto and paddle shifters, I've changed my mind.
It would still be a fun car to drive with DCT. Ralph says no thought because the transmission is too wide.
It would still be a fun car to drive with DCT. Ralph says no thought because the transmission is too wide.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
A good transmission for the Viper would be something like the one in the Ferrari California. Efficient, smooth shifting, 7 speeds, good around town and in traffic, and fantastic on a road course. Not sure that it would fit in the current Viper chassis, nor that most Viper owners would embrace the maintenance nor costs involved.
I marveled at the way torque flowed smoothly, even during shifts. It did not let go of the first gear until the next gear was engaged. While you could hear the engine change revs, you could not feel any break in the torque. Would be superb on a road course as you could shift, even in the middle of a corner.
I soon got bored with that driving experience, however, and returned to the 6 speed manual Viper. It is much more fun to drive, more engaging and you feel more like the Viper is responding to your command, rather than the computer doing all the controlling.
I have other cars with automatics, and none give me the satisfaction I get with with the stick. Same with my Harley. I have driven other bikes with automatics, and they seem to **** up a lot of the fun.
As far as being faster on the road courses. When the Vipers show up at any of the local tracks, they tend to dominate all the automatic equipped entrys.
I marveled at the way torque flowed smoothly, even during shifts. It did not let go of the first gear until the next gear was engaged. While you could hear the engine change revs, you could not feel any break in the torque. Would be superb on a road course as you could shift, even in the middle of a corner.
I soon got bored with that driving experience, however, and returned to the 6 speed manual Viper. It is much more fun to drive, more engaging and you feel more like the Viper is responding to your command, rather than the computer doing all the controlling.
I have other cars with automatics, and none give me the satisfaction I get with with the stick. Same with my Harley. I have driven other bikes with automatics, and they seem to **** up a lot of the fun.
As far as being faster on the road courses. When the Vipers show up at any of the local tracks, they tend to dominate all the automatic equipped entrys.
Different cars for different purposes and different sensory experiences. The cars with all the latest "self driving" gizmos cannot produce the same sensory experience as a Viper.
The sad thing is that the number of people who care about that goes down every day. No surprise though. It fits right in with the entitlement mentality that has infected many, if not most, in this country.
One reading of some of the posts regarding automatic type trannies is: "Why should I have to think and shift when I can have "someone" ( in this case equipment and a computer) do it for me. I am entitled to be able to drive fast and look like I know what I am doing even if I do not know what I am doing."
The sad thing is that the number of people who care about that goes down every day. No surprise though. It fits right in with the entitlement mentality that has infected many, if not most, in this country.
One reading of some of the posts regarding automatic type trannies is: "Why should I have to think and shift when I can have "someone" ( in this case equipment and a computer) do it for me. I am entitled to be able to drive fast and look like I know what I am doing even if I do not know what I am doing."
FLL-B/W-GTS
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Be real,one of the reasons very few people are buying Vipers is because it is only is offered in manual...Do you really think technology will go backwards ...DCT and Technology is the way forward and if SRT does not embrace this ,Viper will fail,sooner than later..
GM is moving forward with the C7 Z06,that car will be a record setter on the quarter mile and track...SRT closed plant and no forward vision...
GM is moving forward with the C7 Z06,that car will be a record setter on the quarter mile and track...SRT closed plant and no forward vision...
