Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptable

[mnc2886]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

After close to one month with the Gen 5 and about 1,100 miles, I can say I like almost everything about the car just the way it is, except for that Drone when cruising between 2,000 and 2,400 rpm : I could live with it but it's still annoying. I'm pretty much tempted to go for it and order the Corsa exhaust. On Corsa's site they have 2 videos of a SRT and a GTS (owned by John B of Partsrack) and they mention the system increases airflow by 18%. I'll be ordering an extra set of Sidewinder II wheels with Mich PSS for my street set-up, so might as well do the Corsa too. If I do, I'll dyno the car before an after the change also.

Just an FYI, Corsa also made claims of increasing power on Gen III and IV, but if you search these forums, you'll see they didn't. 18% extra air flow doesn't necessarily mean more power. Remember, an engine needs some back pressure to keep as little of the intake air from escaping through the exhaust valve as possible during overlap. Given how well the stock Gen IV exhaust performed and SRT continued using CFD for the Gen V, I bet no power increase at all. If Corsa is going to use extra material to remove drone which adds weight, they should really consider a titanium system. They used to make an all titanium system for Vettes, but it may be hard to justify given the low production volume of a Viper.

Also, adding cats may throw off the computer and if it doesn't, you'll most certainly lose 20-30 horsepower. I wouldn't advise doing that. And for the CA folks, it may not be legal for you guys to do that anyways.

 

[SADVIPER]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I'm surprised at this especially with the "sound deadenin" material in the GTS. If this issue starts to show up now then it is also going to be late for the 14s? Hope not. The stock sound sounds beasty and cool though.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Try putting in a Vortex cone. Helped to reduce drone in my car. Easy install.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynatech/329/...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CIqPrv_Rw7kCFQeCQgodhEwATw

 

[Martin]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I'm curious about hearing the exhaust in a Gen V in the "drone zone". My Gen II has a resonant drone at around the RPM I'd be driving on the highway, so I just go into a different gear to make it go away. It has the "good" version of the Borla exhaust on it, which sounds good but does have a definite drone to it at a certain RPM range. The Gen IV had a little bit of drone, but nothing I couldn't live with (it has a Corsa Track exhaust and Random cats on it). My only gripe about the exhaust sound on my Gen IV (and the Gen V cars I've heard from the outside) is the side exhaust. When you stand on one side of the car (or drive next to a freeway barrier with the window open), the exhaust just sounds "odd" at low RPMs and I never quite got used to it. When it's wound up, though, it sounds great. I'd love to see/hear a Gen V car with titanium exhaust and rear-exit pipes - hearing all ten cylinders fire out the back of the car is MUCH sweeter than hearing five at a time in my opinion.

 

[SilveRT8]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

About the weight of stock vs Corsa catback system, here is the answer I got from JonB at Partsrack who contacted the man in charge of the Gen5 system at Corsa. BTW I'm ordering a set as I often cruise in that specific rpm range with windows up. I will Dyno before and after.

" Stock Gen 5 system weighs 40 lbs (lowest bidder). Corsa weighs 46 lbs, all Stainless, lifetime warranty"

CORSA system weighs 6 lbs more than OE, overall.....see below.

Jon "JonB" Brobst ~ Thank You For Your Business
"If It Fits On or In a VIPER" www.viperpartsrack.com
tel 360-837-3937 / 8:30a-530p Pacific Time.
~~See our Track-Drive Review of the Awesome 2013 SRT-GTS at:
http://www.allpar.com/reviews/13/viper.html



In a message dated 9/11/2013 11:38:36 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Jon,

The system helps with the sound that occurs during the 2000 and higher rpms, but does not completely eliminate due to the fact that this is a side exit exhaust.

Our results with the GTS are better than that of the standard SRT Viper as the GTS has additional sound deadening in the cockpit.

Overall we reduced the tonal peaks that exist with the stock system and produced an exhaust that is more even in sound pressure level throughout the entire rpm range.


As for the weight, our Corsa System is a total of six pounds heavier then stock. So yes it’s heavier. We use more steel because we are not just a simple pack muffler. We increase flow while bringing DRONE down to a subjective level. Of course we could make a lightweight pack tube muffler that makes noise. But that’s not what Corsa is known for. We sell sound and acoustics.

Best Regards,

Michael Geul

Technical Service Representitive

P:440-891-0999x177

F:440-891-1868

www.corsaperformance.com

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Gen 3 and 4 side exhaust weighs 15 lbs each side, Gen 3/4 Corsa weighs 27 lbs each side, can't see these values changing so drastically, unless the Gen 5 is a 3 inch exhaust.

 

[Carleton]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I also had the vortex cones installed in my mopar race exhaust when I had my Gen 3. It deffinately helped with the drone.

Carleton

 

[PilotaX]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I also had the vortex cones installed in my mopar race exhaust when I had my Gen 3. It deffinately helped with the drone.

Carleton

Thanks for the tips on the vortex cones. I used them once on a race car to meet sound requirements at a local track, but I'd forgotten about them until just now.

FWIW, the below 2,200 RPM drone doesn't bother me. Go figure. For me it's in the meat of the power band at 2/3 throttle to WOT. Unfortunately, that's where I spend about half my time in the car.

One way or another I'll get it figured out. I'll probably start with some of the simpler fixes, mats and cones. I may also try the crossover or an extra high flow cat in there.

 

[MtnBiker]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

My Gen IV with Belanger headers/exhaust has a nasty drone, but I seem to have gotten used to it (headaches at first), plus I almost always drive with the windows down (and that does reduce it a lot). And it sounds so dang sweet at WOT! Would not go back to OEM exhaust. My wife also commented the other day that she must have gotten used to it since she hated it before and now it seems okay. So, perhaps give it more time.

 

[VENOM V]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Good info, Claude. 6 pounds total increase for reduced drone sounds like a good trade off. And if it sounds a bit deeper in tone than stock, all the better.

Looking forward to your post once you've installed it. I will very likely follow suit.

Todd

 

[Jay M]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Just thinking outside the box... Dont' turbos quiet the exhaust? Maybe you need a TT setup

Seriously, you complaint seems to be the opposite of most. I think most of us hate the drone, but have no problem with noise under heavy acceleration.

On my Gen III I swapped out the stock crossover system for a Gen IV system, and after only a few days decided to revert back to the stock exhaust because of noise, in particular, the drone. Dan Cragen told me that the valve train had a lot to do with the noise, and the the Gen III needed the crossover, whereas the Gen IV did not.

~Jay

 

[SilveRT8]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Good info, Claude. 6 pounds total increase for reduced drone sounds like a good trade off. And if it sounds a bit deeper in tone than stock, all the better.

Looking forward to your post once you've installed it. I will very likely follow suit.

Todd

Just talked to JonB, my Corsa is in stock and will ship asap.
It feels like 2008 again with all the excitment of getting a new Viper and starting with the mods again. That's living the Dream !
BTW cant take my eyes off of your new avatar !!!!!! You really nailed it !

 

[VENOM V]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Just talked to JonB, my Corsa is in stock and will ship asap.
It feels like 2008 again with all the excitment of getting a new Viper and starting with the mods again. That's living the Dream !
BTW cant take my eyes off of your new avatar !!!!!!

Yes, that was a particularly good memory. Gotta say, life is pretty fun right now. Living the dream!

 

[Hemotoxic]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Thanks for the tips on the vortex cones. I used them once on a race car to meet sound requirements at a local track, but I'd forgotten about them until just now.

FWIW, the below 2,200 RPM drone doesn't bother me. Go figure. For me it's in the meat of the power band at 2/3 throttle to WOT. Unfortunately, that's where I spend about half my time in the car.

One way or another I'll get it figured out. I'll probably start with some of the simpler fixes, mats and cones. I may also try the crossover or an extra high flow cat in there.

Good thinking. Once your hearing is gone, try getting it back!

In aviation mechanic school, I was the only one who wore earpro in metal shop, since rivet guns are loud enough to ring your ears a little. I figure if a sound feels even slightly uncomfortable, that's nature's way of saying you'd best turn down the volume right now or pay for it later.

 

[Jack B]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I have the Corsa's on my car. I weighed the OEM mufflers today and just as Corsa said the OEM mufflers are 20 lbs each. I do not know what the G4 side sill looks like, however, the G5 2-1/2" exhaust and muffler fills every inch of the interior sill space. You cannot go to a greater diameter and you cannot make them longer - there is no space. Any changes would have to be made forward of the muffler and that is where the cat sits. In addition, the cat is the smallest I have ever seen, there is not a lot to say about it.

I had the factory shocks sitting next to the mufflers, I weighed them and they were a total of 46 lbs.

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I have the Corsa's on my car. I weighed the OEM mufflers today and just as Corsa said the OEM mufflers are 20 lbs each. I do not know what the G4 side sill looks like, however, the G5 2-1/2" exhaust and muffler fills every inch of the interior sill space. You cannot go to a greater diameter and you cannot make them longer - there is no space. Any changes would have to be made forward of the muffler and that is where the cat sits. In addition, the cat is the smallest I have ever seen, there is not a lot to say about it.

I had the factory shocks sitting next to the mufflers, I weighed them and they were a total of 46 lbs.

Have you noticed the improvement of the drone with the Corsas yourself?

 

[Jack B]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

I do not think there is much difference in the drone, if, if there is, the improvement is minor. IMO the car sounds much better. I also think it may be a bit louder than it was immediately after the install. I definitely like the sound better and on a flow bench, the Corsa was a little better. I have said this several time, however, I am shocked by the size of oem/Corsa mufflers.

I am going to try and edit a a dragstrip video tonight and post it in this thread. It gives you a fair idea of what the car sounds like. This was my first time out when I removed the air cleaner and it set a code. The car was running at reduced power (CEL), but, it sound fair.

Have you noticed the improvement of the drone with the Corsas yourself?

 

[PDCjonny]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

You guys sure are an optimistic lot.
Personally if I bought a new Gen 5 and then had to go buy a new exhaust to make it more livable I'd probably not see it as a great thing. Especially if the sound difference is negligible.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Install a Gen IV trans/rear end. Problem solved

 

[Jack B]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Please Explain what you mean.

Install a Gen IV trans/rear end. Problem solved

 

[SilveRT8]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

You guys sure are an optimistic lot.
Personally if I bought a new Gen 5 and then had to go buy a new exhaust to make it more livable I'd probably not see it as a great thing. Especially if the sound difference is negligible.

The Corsa is just step 1 to remove the Drone and deepen /richen the sound a bit, before installing my Gen4 Belanger headers with HF cats, when the Mopar PCM becomes available.
Should sound similar to my Gen 4 wich I loved.

 

[PilotaX]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

So I was able to measure decibel levels in the cockpit today and the results are pretty interesting.

First, the range was low 70s to a max of 103dbA. At idle it remained in the low 70s. At light throttle it was typically in the mid 80s. Under heavier throttle it stays mostly in the mid 90s, but with brief peaks over 100 dbA.

Second, the place where my ears feel like they want to explode are NOT at the peak dbA level. Where the problem resides (for me) the peak sound pressure was about 95 dbA.

Third, I carefully tracked the RPM range and found that it's actually much narrower than I had thought before. It's more like 3,500 - 4,500. It's also worse on deceleration than on acceleration.

My best guess is that it is a resonance problem, though it's not at the range I normally expect to find resonance problems. However, according to this post (see longer post by StratJohn, 1/4 of the way down the page at http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...oes-my-XXXX-exhaust-drone-and-how-do-I-fix-it), resonance problems arise at different RPM ranges for different engine configurations.

The bad news is it sounds like it's going to be difficult to get rid of. The best bet may be using either a Gen IV or Gen III system. But that comes with obvious problems as the back pressure and flow may not be right for the Gen V engine.

 

[Jay M]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

The good news is that OSHA says you are safe for 4 hours at 95db.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735

You must be registered for see images attach

The bad news is that it annoys the heck out of you to the point where you might want to drive your Porsche instead!

There are enough 911s on the road in Socal... I hope you get the Viper sorted out

~Jay

 

[Jack B]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

The fundamental resonant point is in the 2000-2400 range. Resonance can look like a sharp isosceles triangle (narrow/high multiplecation) or is can be a flat isosceles triangle (low multiplication) with a rounded peak. It all depends on the natual frequency, the resistance to energy transfer, it than needs a source to start the reaction. Everyone agrees that the fundamental is approx 2000, therefore, the subsequent resonant point should be multiples of the fundamental which is 2000.

So I was able to measure decibel levels in the cockpit today and the results are pretty interesting.

First, the range was low 70s to a max of 103dbA. At idle it remained in the low 70s. At light throttle it was typically in the mid 80s. Under heavier throttle it stays mostly in the mid 90s, but with brief peaks over 100 dbA.

Second, the place where my ears feel like they want to explode are NOT at the peak dbA level. Where the problem resides (for me) the peak sound pressure was about 95 dbA.

Third, I carefully tracked the RPM range and found that it's actually much narrower than I had thought before. It's more like 3,500 - 4,500. It's also worse on deceleration than on acceleration.

My best guess is that it is a resonance problem, though it's not at the range I normally expect to find resonance problems. However, according to this post (see longer post by StratJohn, 1/4 of the way down the page at http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...oes-my-XXXX-exhaust-drone-and-how-do-I-fix-it), resonance problems arise at different RPM ranges for different engine configurations.

The bad news is it sounds like it's going to be difficult to get rid of. The best bet may be using either a Gen IV or Gen III system. But that comes with obvious problems as the back pressure and flow may not be right for the Gen V engine.

 

[TrackAire]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

So I was able to measure decibel levels in the cockpit today and the results are pretty interesting.

First, the range was low 70s to a max of 103dbA. At idle it remained in the low 70s. At light throttle it was typically in the mid 80s. Under heavier throttle it stays mostly in the mid 90s, but with brief peaks over 100 dbA.

Second, the place where my ears feel like they want to explode are NOT at the peak dbA level. Where the problem resides (for me) the peak sound pressure was about 95 dbA.

Third, I carefully tracked the RPM range and found that it's actually much narrower than I had thought before. It's more like 3,500 - 4,500. It's also worse on deceleration than on acceleration.

My best guess is that it is a resonance problem, though it's not at the range I normally expect to find resonance problems. However, according to this post (see longer post by StratJohn, 1/4 of the way down the page at http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...oes-my-XXXX-exhaust-drone-and-how-do-I-fix-it), resonance problems arise at different RPM ranges for different engine configurations.

The bad news is it sounds like it's going to be difficult to get rid of. The best bet may be using either a Gen IV or Gen III system. But that comes with obvious problems as the back pressure and flow may not be right for the Gen V engine.

Have you been able to drive another Gen 5 to compare sounds/drone? Do you think there is a chance that the muffler is not the issue, but something or some part of the sound insulation was left off the car during assembly and the noise frequency is now able to really be heard?

Although this has nothing to do with your car, my Gen 4 has headers, no cat and the ACRX mufflers. It is loud and I can't handle the sound pressure with the windows down, but if I roll the windows up the sound is livable and I can listen to the radio, talk on my cell phone, etc. There is some drone, but it is not bad at all. If I roll down the windows the sound waves are unbearable.


Hope you get is figured out soon.

Cheers,
George

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Bummer that you have to resort to an aftermarket exhaust to eliminate the drone. Adding a cross-over would very likely solve your problem, but you would have to make a few slight modifications beyond just the exhaust. The Gen III's underbelly pan has a cut-out for the cross over pipe in addition to a scoop that's pointed to the differential. Some of the pics that I have see of a Gen V underbelly pan don't have this cutout. Their shape looks similar at a distance, but there may have been some chassis changes between Gen III and Gen V that would require a modification to this pan.

I use two sets of exhausts for my modified Gen III Vert (650whp; heads/cam, etc.). With ARH headers, catless, and ACR-X exhaust, the car is unGodly loud and the drone is unbearable. Not much changes between windows or top up/down. Ear plugs required at all times, all RPMs except like 1100. For the rest of the time (cruises, rallys, etc), I use my OEM Gen III exhaust with cross-over. With headers and no cats, this OEM exhaust is very quiet and pleasant. Zero drone. Sounds just as quiet or quieter than when my car was stock. Its totally worth it and makes the car very enjoyable and worth the 20-30whp loss that I am probably leaving on the table. Swapping the exhausts can be a bit of a pain, but I have got down to about 2 hours and a few beers.

Good luck resolving the drone issue.

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

The fundamental resonant point is in the 2000-2400 range. Resonance can look like a sharp isosceles triangle (narrow/high multiplecation) or is can be a flat isosceles triangle (low multiplication) with a rounded peak. It all depends on the natual frequency, the resistance to energy transfer, it than needs a source to start the reaction. Everyone agrees that the fundamental is approx 2000, therefore, the subsequent resonant point should be multiples of the fundamental which is 2000.

Any chance that you can post pics, dimensions, or part number of the Gen V exhaust. I am curious to see how different it is when compared to the Gen III/IV.

 

[Nine Ball]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

Install a Gen IV trans/rear end. Problem solved

This response deserves more attention. Going with a simple 3.07 rear gear swap will alter your cruising rpm and drone dramatically. Cheaper than a catback, and it will also improve your highway mpg.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

This response deserves more attention. Going with a simple 3.07 rear gear swap will alter your cruising rpm and drone dramatically. Cheaper than a catback, and it will also improve your highway mpg.

I don't have my calculator out, wouldn't that mean 1st gear would run up to like 70-75?

I like our 1-5th gear ratios paired with the 3.55s. But I wish 6th was .5 or even lower. And the solution is not a 7 speed, the notion of needing that many overdrives is odd to me. Some reporters are saying with the new Vette hitting 5th gear is now a challenge because you instinctively push all the way to the right hitting 7th.

 

[PDCjonny]

Re: Reached the tipping point: the stock 2013 exhaust interior dB level is unacceptab

This response deserves more attention. Going with a simple 3.07 rear gear swap will alter your cruising rpm and drone dramatically. Cheaper than a catback, and it will also improve your highway mpg.

Won't it also alter your drivetrain warranty?