Rear hatch unglued on my GTS, again!

AviP

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What glue do I use for the hinge on the top edge? Also, the latch hook got unglued too. :mad: The glass shops don't seem to know too well either. I have tried different glass shops and come up with different answers. I am quite familiar with the problem since it has happened forever with the GTS and there never seems to be an authoritative answer. I wish Chrysler Technical Support would man up and direct us DIYers to the correct glue to use. Why is that so hard? :dunno: Freaking lawyers! :mad:

Are there any fresh suggestions or something I have missed in my search?

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS

P.S. For the first time in 15 years, I felt really ********** with my Viper and an ugly thought ran through my head. SELL IT! Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of my GTS and I can't drive it. I love my car but lately it's more of the same annoyances that seem too minor yet are a PITA to fix.
 

Paul Hawker

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When I had this issue on my 96 (hatch latch came off) I was told that they had their own product, and it was not commercially available. Dealership re glued it under warranty, and it held up for the 8 years I drove it.

It came off on a very hot and humid day. Seemes there was a rash of these back then, but the fix was permanent.
 

Dirk Pitt

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I would be interested to hear what you find out. My '97 popped and the local Dodge dealer did not want to try and fix it for liability reasons. They did say Dodge used a special adhesive back in the day and you could not get it any longer. I tried a few glass shops but nobody wants to touch it. Something about the liability of the glass blowing out at high speeds. Latest recommendation is to buy a used hatch.
 

gutterworks129

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I used black windshield adhesive from Advance Auto on my 1996 GTS. It comes in a 10.5 tube and uses a caulking gun to apply. The stuff is super tough. Use some sort of tool to wedge open the hinge plate from the window and inject the adhesive between them. Make sure you cut just a little off the tip of the tube so you won't make a mess.
 
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AviP

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I spoke to Chuck yesterday and he recommended I contact my local Safelite to get it done. He said that the adhesives used are sold in bulk and have an expiration date, so it doesn't make any business sense for him to stock up on it. Gutterworks, I'll check out that product you mentioned. I believe what's important is to get the highest psi rating possible. I will keep you guys posted.

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS
 

GTSnake

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And it's been discussed many times before. Make sure your rear vents are not plugged or blocked at all since it builds up pressure against the rear glass.
 
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AviP

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My rear vents have never ever been blocked other than a road trip to VOI 5 in 1999. But the design does piss me off. It's like, "Here's your trunk, now don't use it."

I contacted Safelite and they said they do not fix anything onto glass but can replace the entire hatch glass. :dunno: I did buy Windo-Weld recommended by Gutterworks. I will clean the latch striker and hinge today with a grinder/dremel/scraper and get it set for installation. That hinge is going to be a PITA to clean up. I'll take some photos too.

The image is different from what I got but you get the idea. It's packaged in a white caulk-gun style container.

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS
 

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virginiavenom

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what about the 2 part self mix epoxy syringes you can find at o'reilly's etc. I forget the brand, but they have anywhere from 1000psi to 3500psi. would that not work?
 

GTSnake

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My rear vents have never ever been blocked other than a road trip to VOI 5 in 1999. But the design does piss me off. It's like, "Here's your trunk, now don't use it."


It only builds pressure if you drive with the windows open. There's no problem using the trunk and blocking the vents as long as you drive with the windows up.
 
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AviP

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So I finished fixing up the hatch this weekend, let it cure 48 hours and mounted it yesterday. It seems to be as good as new. I will post some details and photos later tonight.

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS
 
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AviP

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AVIP....a nice how to would be wonderful.
That's what I said above. The procedure below will work on the hatch glass hinge, latch striker or strut mounts. You need not remove the glass unless the hinge is detaching. In my case, the hinge had detached for about 4 inches and the latch striker had detached completely.

I have enough adhesive left for 1-2 jobs. If anyone nearby has a detaching hinge, c'mon over and I'll help you fix it as long as you have a 6-pack handy. :D

I also have 5 photos that I am unable to post because I don't have gallery privileges anymore. Apparently, an "enthusiast" has to pay to contribute on this forum.:dunno: If anyone wants to post them, I'll be happy to email it to them.

To remove the hatch glass,
1. Disconnect the defroster connections at the top of the glass on each side. The connection seem soft and easily breakable, so be careful here.
2. Disconnect the trunk light under the latch to prevent the battery from draining.
3. Loosen the 4 bolts holding the hatch glass to the mount.
4. Shove your son into the trunk with a ratchet and ask him to loosen the nuts while you and your wife hold the hatch stable. :D
5. Then disconnect the struts from the hatch and take the hatch off the Viper. It's clumsy to carry, so be careful here.

To clean the old urethane adhesive,
1. Using a wooden wedge, prop up the hinge where it has separated from the glass.
2. Take a long flat blade off a cheap utility knife and scrape off all the glue from the glass. The ideal blade will be much longer than the width of the hinge. Note that below the adhesive is a primer. This is the black surround that you see on the hatch. The primer does not come off by scraping which is good. This is a frustrating job because the working area is obstructed by the hinge. Do not try to take shortcuts by using power tools. It is a PITA. I recommend you play your favorite music to keep the cursing to a minimum.
3. Using the same long flat blade, scrape enough of the urethane off the hinge too to create a rough surface. This part does not need to be perfect as that is how a professional glass shop will do it too. Be careful not to bend the hinge. If it gets a crease in the metal, it will never straighten out.
4. Clean the glass and hinge with rubbing alcohol.

To apply the new adhesive, (3M Windo-Weld Part# 08609 available at Advance Auto Parts),
1. Carefully mask the glass around the hinge.
2. The adhesive applies with a standard caulk gun. Puncture the front, screw in the spout, pull the tab on the rear and mount it into the gun.
3. Cut a small bead in the spout. The adhesive is really messy and it's better to go with a smaller bead than with a big mess. BTW, the adhesive cleans up with mineral spirits. Apply the bead all over the glass under the hinge. Press the hinge down to contact the adhesive and release. Apply more as necessary until you have filled all the voids without creating any pushout onto the masking tape.
4. Press down on the hinge and use a clamp for every couple of inches of glue. I used plastic clamps so I didn't need to protect the glass. If you use metal clamps, provide adequate protection as the glass curves at the hinge ends.
5. Remove the masking tape immediately and cleanup with mineral spirits if necessary.
6. Let the adhesive cure for 24-48 hours (temp and humidity based).
7. Cut off any excess around the hinge with a utility knife.

To install the hatch glass, just reverse the removal procedure.

You must be registered for see images

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS
 
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virginiavenom

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I'm pretty sure I can post photos being a VCA member man, send them to me and I will post them. email is pschamp2004 aT yah00 dot c0m
 

virginiavenom

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pics as AVIP requested
 

virginiavenom

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one more photo. I'll be doing this based on his writeup once I get the car back from RSI.
 
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AviP

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VirginiaVenom, thanks for posting those photos. Mouse over the photos to see what they mean. Once again, if anybody in the NY/CT/NJ area wants help with this, do come on over and I'll give you a hand for free.
 

Camfab

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Not to be a party pooper of any kind, because all the steps taken seem right on the money. My question is.............is that 3M product the 100% no BS factory used adhesive. I'm sure I'll have to deal with this at some point, however glass issues are the only ones I don't feel safe about performing.

Here is a link to some 3M structural adhesives http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...4GSSPD0422000000_nid=45R1LF5S87be4VCX679CQ4gl

I had another link that seemed to be the exact 3M product needed, but I somehow lost the link and can't find it now. My point being, I'm not satisfied that the stuff you got from autozone, is the right product. I believe that product is for bonding windshields to a car body, not for a high strength structural bond of mounting hardware. I'd personally put a call out to some engineer at 3M.
 
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AviP

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Camfab, no it's not. But I've had the runaround with that adhesive from the glass professionals and from the factory. I tried really hard contacting the factory to get some technical support but pretty much got the buy-a-new-hatch routine. Same with Safelite and all the lawyer run glass companies.

Once the hinge detaches, it gets progressively worse. Either you bite the bullet and get a new hatch or you deal with it. So I researched the PSI and bonding strengths and made an educated call. When I paid a professional to do the job, it came off within a week. So far, it's been 4 weeks with my DIY job. I'm quite happy with the result because I've used the car on rough local roads and it seems to have held.

But I hear your point too. It's not the original product. If you do find out what the factory used, let us know. We'd LOVE to know! The tensile strength of Window-Weld is 1200psi and is probably the most important spec to care about.

Good luck!
 

2000_Black_RT10

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I've designed lots of bonded stuff, and one thing to note is maintaining a thickness of the adhesive in a bonded joint. If you clamp it too tight, you will squeeze out all the adhesive which is not good as well as having too much adhesive. It's needed to create a sandwich of a proper adhesive layer thickness between for bonding strength. Manufacturers typically have a fixture to set the bond gap and let it cure in position.

Typically for this type of urethane adhesive joint, I would suggest approximately 1 mm of adhesive thickness between the plate and the glass. You could set the thickness of the adhesive using a few pieces of 1 mm diameter wire of some sort going slightly (i.e. 1/8" inwards) between the glass and plate gap spaced around the perimeter of the plate, and pull them out after it's cured. Or if the glass is blacked out, place a few small / short pieces of the 1 mm diameter wire in the adhesive to set the gap, you'll never see them.

At times when there wasn't a fixture for bonding carbon fiber parts, an option was to use glass beads in the adhesive to set the gap. Controlling the adhesive gap is very important to provide a good bond joint.

Cheers,
Mike

PS.. good choice on the window urethane adhesive. Another important aspect is the adhesive compliance, as some 2 part structural adhesives will not work. The issue being that a 2 part epoxy structural adhesive is too stiff once cured, and as the car is in the sun, the metal brackets will heat up and expand different than the glass (or contract in the cold), as you're bonding 2 different materials with a different CTE. So the wrong structural adhesive will eventually fail, delaminate or shatter the glass, as this is why urethane is typically used as an adhesive when bonding 2 different types of materials together.
 
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AviP

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I've designed lots of bonded stuff, and one thing to note is maintaining a thickness of the adhesive in a bonded joint. If you clamp it too tight, you will squeeze out all the adhesive which is not good as well as having too much adhesive. It's needed to create a sandwich of a proper adhesive layer thickness between for bonding strength. Manufacturers typically have a fixture to set the bond gap and let it cure in position.
The clamps I used did not clamp it too tight, more like finger tight equivalent on a nut. As such I hardly had to clean up any adhesive from the masking tape. It's hard to differentiate the thickness between the old adhesive and new adhesive.
 

Luisv

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Avi...

Thanks for the info. I had put in new rear window struts a couple of weeks ago and my latch just let go from the glass. I read this and saw it was about two months old and figured, since you had not mentioned otherwise, I can assume the 3M window weld has held up. Is that the case? Has it still held through the summer?

I just did the repair on mine today with the Windo Weld... Hope you give me good news. Mike (above) confirmed that the urethane adhesive is the way to go... Considering he has some experience, I hope he is right as well.
 

Fast Viper Dan

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What I was told,
1000 grit sand paper to clean both parts. Use two packs of glue for mounting a rear view mirror. (sold at any auto parts store)
 

Luisv

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What I was told,
1000 grit sand paper to clean both parts. Use two packs of glue for mounting a rear view mirror. (sold at any auto parts store)

I don't think that will work. At least my plate, has a number of nibs that give you a gap for about a 1 to 2mm gap for the adhesive. It is not like the mirror mounts that are flat against the glass. The mirror glues needs to be almost a gapless mating surface. If I was to bet.... It would not work.... At least not in my case....
 
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