Rear toe deflects by Half an Inch GenII

[Damion Green]

so are there any fixes for this? Ive reached out to a fellow named Eric Messley a couple times, to no avail. Is there anyone else or anything else I can do to fix the problem? How about mount a GenIII rear onto my GenII? Any suggestions?

 

[MoparMap]

How exactly is the toe deflecting? Is it more of a bump steer issue or is the mounting point actually flexing? Have you lowered the car or modified the suspension otherwise?

 

[Damion Green]

well according to Viper Lore, the GenII cars tend to lose grip when 2 things are combined 1) hard cornering and 2) getting on the gas. The suggestion I was given was, slow in the corner and don't really roll onto the throttle until the car is pointed straight. A related article on a GenII viper https://motoiq.com/project-viper-gt...aGr0lXMggpFwrFORpxfZXrljXuErUwbp7Wso-Zb7HU-64

 

[MoparMap]

Wow, interesting. I know the toe pickup point on the rear knuckles has been a debate for quite some time, even up to gen 4. I guess with that kind of tire width and grip you can put some more force into them. I hadn't heard of it being as much issue on the earlier cars, but then again I'm not as well dialed in with those as I have a gen 3. That stiffener looks like it would be easy enough to build. Basically some nice pieces of DOM tubing. I suppose you could see if a gen 3 knuckle would fit on your control arms without completely messing up the geometry. I think some people have put the newer gen brakes on the older cars, so that might be part of the swap.

 

[Damion Green]

It would be interesting to know if anyone has taken a GenIII or Gen IV rear end under the GenII. as far as the Messley piece in the article; It doesn't look like an impossible piece to make. As far as the aluminum OEM "knuckle", Id feel a little safer if I could make a steel version of that knuckle with the addition of that new piece.

 

[MoparMap]

I had thought the diff mounting changed some between the gen 2 and gen 3, but I could be off on that. At the very least I'm pretty sure the halfshafts were different. I was fairly sure the gen 1 at least used a yoke and u joint style halfshaft while the gen 3 uses a CV style shaft with splined stub shafts on the diff. Not sure about gen 2 though.

 

[jrkermode]

There is a bracket to fix this (see link below). I have them installed on my Gen2, which I regularly track. I haven't noticed a big difference in handling (maybe I'm not fast enough).

http://www.viperpartsrack.com/index.php?route=product/search&keyword=toe

 

[haneifk]

you can also get them directly from the guy who makes them:
https://ipsco.org/Viper_files/Anti-Toe Bracket.htm

 

[Damion Green]

@MoparMap my thought was to replace the whole rear end, not just the half shafts, but that would imply that the shock and spring mounts would align, chassi to axle, then the top of the diff mounting points would also half to bolt up in the same way GenII vrs GenIII/GenIV

 

[Damion Green]

you can also get them directly from the guy who makes them:
https://ipsco.org/Viper_files/Anti-Toe Bracket.htm

Thats interesting but Its not even close to being the same as the Messley(EMI) design. but the EMI design I could see as "wiggling" because it only has 1 point/bolt to hold it in place. If the bolted shaft also had some form of cradle to hold the shaft in a fixed position Id believe that the cup design would work better

 

[DaveGF]

I am pretty sure I have a complete set of the EMI A-arms if you are interested. I have laid eyes on one side and my mechanic is fairly certain where the other side is. Need any other Gen II parts? Have heads, hood, CDI side exhaust header system wiring harness, intake with injectors, OZ wheels, (maybe big brakes) and much more. Cheap to a good home if picked up near Dallas Texas.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

The article link shows a nice tubular fabbed stiffener while the parts vendors show a completely different billet bracket - both parts for a Gen 2 GTS.

The vendor parts will not bolt to where the tubular bracket bolts. Does anyone sell the tubular bracket?

 

[Damion Green]

I am pretty sure I have a complete set of the EMI A-arms if you are interested. I have laid eyes on one side and my mechanic is fairly certain where the other side is. Need any other Gen II parts? Have heads, hood, CDI side exhaust header system wiring harness, intake with injectors, OZ wheels, (maybe big brakes) and much more. Cheap to a good home if picked up near Dallas Texas.

Later this summer I might have some spare change for some headers.

 

[Dan Cragin]

Check your rear toe links for play. There are aftermarket motorsports types available. Bump steer the rear of the car and run a tor link stiffener.

 

[newredrt10]

I am lost? the toe is not connected to the rear end or pumpkin. it is a bar that is fix to the frame. the brackets shown above are stiffeners for the wheel hub toe are. they had failures of the arms where the ball joint are fixed. I think they also had a recall on the toe cross member for welds breaking. hope this helps

the reasons for a car not going straight are many. first look at the age of the tires, if old replace(3years), if different age replace, check air presser(same) different presser for different driving.

 

[George Farris]

Get an alignment.

If your "Viper Lore" is coming from the mag rags ... forget it!!!

You will find all those stories about Vipers being scary are overblown ... have been driving Gen Is and IIs for 26 years ...

Alignment!!!

 

[Damion Green]

Get an alignment.

If your "Viper Lore" is coming from the mag rags ... forget it!!!

You will find all those stories about Vipers being scary are overblown ... have been driving Gen Is and IIs for 26 years ...

Alignment!!!

no, actually an Engineer at Dana, that designed the rear end...The rear end was designed in Fort Wayne Indiana.

 

[Damion Green]

Get an alignment.
If your "Viper Lore" is coming from the mag rags ... forget it!!!
Alignment!!!

an addendum to this old question, as Ive had another thought on it.
The engineer who told me of his entry onto a cloverlief and flooring the car and the car going sideways at roughly 80mph, said it was the most dangerous car he had ever driven. He did NOT say at what level of development the rear end/car was at. It may have been an early engineering mule. for my personal experience, in the 3 years ive had the car, I have only had the opportunity to drive it/empty 4 or 5 full tanks of fuel...so in that limited time, I've had no real problems (much the same as your experience) but with nearly 500ft lbs, i could see that if you his a bit of gravel scattered on a stretch of road, and without traction control and a short wheel base that the car could quickly get out of hand.