recommend the most comfortable coilover setup for Gen III

nspec

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Posts
105
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, TX
I installed eibach drop springs on my 06 coupe right after i got it. the ride quality went from decent to horrible. Especially for driving on houston roads/highways.

The car still sits pretty high (not where i wanted it to be) so I'll have to switch out to coilovers.
What do you guys recommend? a setup thats most comfortable out of all for street driving.


This is after the eibach springs install.

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach





Thanks,

Nauman
 

AbsolutHank

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Posts
2,827
Reaction score
1
Location
Odenton, MD
MCS Coilovers
Penske
KW V2s


In that order...you can contact member Mark "MJorgensen" for advice/pricing on MCS
 

Sonoman

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Posts
424
Reaction score
0
Location
Sonoma Cownty
You could also custom select spring rates on any of the aftermarket coilovers for ride comfort rather than for track performance (which is what a lot of coilovers are optimized for). A progressive rate or dual spring setup could be helpful on a lowered car. Lowering generally does not improve ride quality, since you will require stiffer springs to prevent bottoming, and the softer initial travel of a full ride height spring at stock rates is generally sacrificed in the lowering process. Gen IV shocks with lowering caps/stock springs give decent ride quality, but the ride height in the rear especially will probably not be as low as you want it to be (much as your car is now).

Motion and Penske coilovers are generally sold with springs as separate purchase items, so you have options to pick from. KW V2 kits come with springs on 'em, with spring rates somewhat stiffer than stock, but not a pure track spring. Ride quality is a product of the spring rate, shock damping settings, tire sidewall, and sway bar stiffness, among other things.

One small advantage to the KW sets is that they are one of very few aftermarket coilovers that still utilize a rubber isolator in the spring eye bushing (where the shock mounting bolt passes through the shock body). This adds just a bit of ride comfort and noise isolation. On a friend's car (non-Viper), the difference between a rubber isolated shock and a non-isolated shock was obvious. Full race coilovers utilize a solid mount with no rubber, typically injecting more noise into the frame of the car as vibration in the lower control arm is passed directly through the shock.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
A properly designed shock will ride better even with a stiffer spring. The MCS shocks are sold with spring rates 2X what the factory installed and ride 100% better. Most shock spring setups are stiff because the shock itself is less efficient at controlling the energy. MCS shocks do have all solid bearing mounting and there is absolutely no noise from them. The shock is smooth and efficient enough that there is none of the typical clunking associated with lesser shocks that use them. The bearing mounts let you get all the quality you paid for out of the shock instead of masking a cheap shock with rubber to absorb the harshness and noise that comes with a too stiff shock.

I would be happy to chat about any of these options with you by email.
 

Sonoman

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Posts
424
Reaction score
0
Location
Sonoma Cownty
Mark, I wasn't trying to state that the KWs are somehow "better" than other aftermarket coilovers. Certainly, the MCS offerings are true high-end suspension parts and priced accordingly. The KWs are a mid-priced street/track coilover. So my question is, do the KWs have a history of "clunking" in your experience? I have not heard this before, and since I have a set on my Viper it would not be a happy experience to have them making clunking noises (topping out?). I'm still working some of the other rattles out of this car! :omg:

Also, all other things being equal, would not the same shock with a slightly softer spring yield a more comfortable ride than it would with a stiffer spring rate? Physics says yes... up to the point of bottoming, of course. Also, I've personally observed the same basic shocks with an isolator and with a Heim joint and the difference in transmitted noise was noticeable-- although admittedly, this was on a BMW M3 and not on a Viper. The Viper uses rubber in its control arm bushings, and in the diff mounting pads, but with no rubber in the shock you have a path for vibration from the lower control arm to the frame. Possibly MCS is damping this path in other ways, but again, an MCS shock with an isolator would likely be quieter than the same shock without.

Another factor is preload. Stock shocks, with their relatively low spring rates (Gen IV Front: 210 lb/in; Rear: 525 lb/in) operate under considerable preload, that is, the spring must be compressed just to mount it on the shock body. The aftermarket coilovers operate with relatively little preload depending on the ride height setting. A "slammed" car will have virtually no preload at all. Preload equals force at zero displacement. You need to overcome that force for the suspension to move, so you have lost small bump compliance to some extent on the stock Viper shocks, translating to lower ride quality compared to aftermarket coilovers.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Mark, I wasn't trying to state that the KWs are somehow "better" than other aftermarket coilovers. Certainly, the MCS offerings are true high-end suspension parts and priced accordingly. The KWs are a mid-priced street/track coilover. So my question is, do the KWs have a history of "clunking" in your experience? I have not heard this before, and since I have a set on my Viper it would not be a happy experience to have them making clunking noises (topping out?). I'm still working some of the other rattles out of this car! :omg:

Also, all other things being equal, would not the same shock with a slightly softer spring yield a more comfortable ride than it would with a stiffer spring rate? Physics says yes... up to the point of bottoming, of course. Also, I've personally observed the same basic shocks with an isolator and with a Heim joint and the difference in transmitted noise was noticeable-- although admittedly, this was on a BMW M3 and not on a Viper. The Viper uses rubber in its control arm bushings, and in the diff mounting pads, but with no rubber in the shock you have a path for vibration from the lower control arm to the frame. Possibly MCS is damping this path in other ways, but again, an MCS shock with an isolator would likely be quieter than the same shock without.

Another factor is preload. Stock shocks, with their relatively low spring rates (Gen IV Front: 210 lb/in; Rear: 525 lb/in) operate under considerable preload, that is, the spring must be compressed just to mount it on the shock body. The aftermarket coilovers operate with relatively little preload depending on the ride height setting. A "slammed" car will have virtually no preload at all. Preload equals force at zero displacement. You need to overcome that force for the suspension to move, so you have lost small bump compliance to some extent on the stock Viper shocks, translating to lower ride quality compared to aftermarket coilovers.

No worries I did not take it that way just stating our experiences.

A shock with efficient, responsive valving will not produce any clunking with a quality bearing mount. The clunking that is heard sometimes with other shocks is from valving that has to over come stiction to start the movement in either direction, or the bearing mount they use is cheaper and clearances itself quickly causing noise. All things being the same you are correct that the softer spring should ride softer, BUT if the valving inside the shock is stiffer then the springs rate you will only get the ride the shock will give you regardless of spring rate. This is why the MSC will ride better even with stiffer springs, because the rate and the shock are in sync.

To answer your question about KW's, no I have never had any clunk that were in good working order.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
I have Motons, I think the MCS are the new Moton?

Moton has been bought by a company called AST and the MCS shocks are being built and sold by the same engineers and sales staff that brought you the original Motons. The MCS is the evolution of the last Moton design.
 

bmw2nv2000

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Posts
1,445
Reaction score
0
Location
Adamsville, TN
Im just curious Mark. Are the MCS coilovers actually better handling/riding than the motons? Or is it pretty much the same set up? I dont see how they could have made them any better. Motons are the **** nik.
 

Austin

Enthusiast
Joined
May 29, 2003
Posts
5,076
Reaction score
0
Location
Clear Lake, TX
What part of town are you in? This is where we need you to be in terms of height. :D



You must be registered for see images
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
I'm just curious Mark. Are the MCS coilovers actually better handling/riding than the motons? Or is it pretty much the same set up? I dont see how they could have made them any better. Motons are the **** nik.

The Motons ARE great, that is why we sold so many of them (exclusively) and enjoyed working with the engineers. The machining tolerances have been tightened even further with the MCS design, creating more efficiency. Internal orifices are also changed and re positioned to increase performance and durability.

One other thing that makes them stand out is that you will get all the great customer service and attention to the details as you did with the original owners of Moton because these ARE the original people that were the PASSION behind the product. Maybe that is not enough for some when it comes time to spend the money on new suspension, but the customers that have used the products they developed for all these years know that this group of people know what customer service is all about.

Thanks for the questions,
 

Viper X

Former VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Posts
3,471
Reaction score
2
The Motons ARE great, that is why we sold so many of them (exclusively) and enjoyed working with the engineers. The machining tolerances have been tightened even further with the MCS design, creating more efficiency. Internal orifices are also changed and re positioned to increase performance and durability.

One other thing that makes them stand out is that you will get all the great customer service and attention to the details as you did with the original owners of Moton because these ARE the original people that were the PASSION behind the product. Maybe that is not enough for some when it comes time to spend the money on new suspension, but the customers that have used the products they developed for all these years know that this group of people know what customer service is all about.

Thanks for the questions,


The Moton guys were awesome in the past. I have had Motons on five different Vipers now and all of them have worked perfectly. If the Moton guys are now making the MCS shocks, BUY A SET, you can't go wrong with Mark, Lex and his crew at MCS.

Dan
 

thompsonracing

Viper Owner
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Posts
451
Reaction score
0
Location
Chalfont, PA
The New Moton group are great to deal with. I love my Motons and would recommend them to anyone.

I agree with other posts, your car is at a good height. You don't want the Viper too low.
 
OP
OP
N

nspec

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Posts
105
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, TX
Thanks for all the replies guys. As soon as my wheels come in, i'll have to see how the car sits and then go from there. but looks like I'll have to go with MCS


What part of town are you in? This is where we need you to be in terms of height. :D



You must be registered for see images

Thanks for that chop! looks awesome. Im in sugarland but rarely in town. you might see my car out once a month or so.
we will have sugarland exotics meet last sunday of this month and i should be there.
 

MTGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Posts
2,251
Reaction score
0
Location
Orlando, Fl
The Monton's are without question a top notch product but unless you are planning on tracking the car they are probably overkill. You just seem to be looking for a lower ride height and better ride.
 

ohlarikd

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
715
Reaction score
0
Location
Central New Jersey
Hi! I've had the 05 Viper for a month. I did notice that on the highway, that the car pogos a bit. Seems like it needs more damping, but I guess the stock suspension is not adjustable?

Motons sound great, but maybe out of my price range. I am just looking to lower the car and get rid of the pogo, without introducing any harshness/noise. Motons obviously work, what is the next best set that are sufficiently cheaper than Motons to make it worth it?

I saw Viper Specialties also sells something, but haven't seen any comparison versus others.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Part of the reason the MCS shocks ride so well is the efficiency of the design and the way the nitrogen "lift" helps with harshness even while using significantly stiffer springs. The canister also houses a type of "blow off valve" that lets the pressure by the valving when a sharp bump is encountered. while maintaining control of the rebound all the time. You will not find a significantly cheaper shock that will give you everything you are looking for. Less exotic designs just can't match the control and ride the MCS can give you. I know they are EXPENSIVE, but the enjoyment you get from them is beyond what you will think possible.
 

ohlarikd

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
715
Reaction score
0
Location
Central New Jersey
Part of the reason the MCS shocks ride so well is the efficiency of the design and the way the nitrogen "lift" helps with harshness even while using significantly stiffer springs. The canister also houses a type of "blow off valve" that lets the pressure by the valving when a sharp bump is encountered. while maintaining control of the rebound all the time. You will not find a significantly cheaper shock that will give you everything you are looking for. Less exotic designs just can't match the control and ride the MCS can give you. I know they are EXPENSIVE, but the enjoyment you get from them is beyond what you will think possible.

Thanks Mark. I do like to wait and get the best, rather than cheap out on something that is suboptimal. I will take this into consideration... so many things to upgrade on a car that seemed perfectly fine when I got it!

That's how it goes...
 

Steve M

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Posts
1,094
Reaction score
215
Location
Dayton, OH
... so many things to upgrade on a car that seemed perfectly fine when I got it!

Oh, don't even get me started...that's how I ended up with MCS shocks that will be going on shortly. And my wheels that are being refinished. And all new interior LEDs. And a completely redone stereo system. These things were all perfectly adequate when I bought the car, yet now are not.
 

RCC

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Posts
98
Reaction score
0
I've had the following on my coupe-

ACR coil overs- extremely rough ride
KW V2's- very rough ride
MCS- smoothest riding vehicle I own

I run my car with a pretty low stance and I'm told that's one of the reasons the V2's were rough. In my opinion spend the money on MCS's or find a set of used Motons. If you enjoy driving your car a lot it is money well spent.
 

ohlarikd

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
715
Reaction score
0
Location
Central New Jersey
I've had the following on my coupe-

ACR coil overs- extremely rough ride
KW V2's- very rough ride
MCS- smoothest riding vehicle I own

I run my car with a pretty low stance and I'm told that's one of the reasons the V2's were rough. In my opinion spend the money on MCS's or find a set of used Motons. If you enjoy driving your car a lot it is money well spent.

I am leaning towards Motons because 90% of the time, a street car is just cruising along. I want a Paxton, but a nicer ride would be more beneficial more of the time. Plus it will look cooler with the lower stance.
 

ohlarikd

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
715
Reaction score
0
Location
Central New Jersey
Oh, don't even get me started...that's how I ended up with MCS shocks that will be going on shortly. And my wheels that are being refinished. And all new interior LEDs. And a completely redone stereo system. These things were all perfectly adequate when I bought the car, yet now are not.

Need new exhaust
Need new MGW shifter
Need Motons
Need Paxton
Need new rims

On this list, I can currently afford the shifter ;)
 

Viper X

Former VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Posts
3,471
Reaction score
2
My .02 cents, go MCS all the way and have Mark get you the correct springs too.

Best mod you can make to any Viper for overall driving performance and ride quality.

Gen III Vipers are over sprung and under dampened.

Dan
 

lotti

Viper Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Posts
67
Reaction score
0
Location
Chester, VA.
I wish somebody would say something bad about MCS or motons all the great feedback is going to make me spend a good chunk of change

Question are the moton club sports being sold now the same product as before the company was sold?
 

ohlarikd

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
715
Reaction score
0
Location
Central New Jersey
My .02 cents, go MCS all the way and have Mark get you the correct springs too.

Best mod you can make to any Viper for overall driving performance and ride quality.

Gen III Vipers are over sprung and under dampened.

Dan

That is what I am feeling now. Especially under-damped. I don't get it.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Short answer is NO, if you can even get AST to build you some, seems they just bought the name up and thats it. Stick with the MCS and don't look back, no one makes a better shock for a Viper. The good things you hear and read were built by the "people" at MCS not the new owners of Moton.


I wish somebody would say something bad about MCS or motons all the great feedback is going to make me spend a good chunk of change

Question are the moton club sports being sold now the same product as before the company was sold?
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,644
Posts
1,685,209
Members
18,220
Latest member
ROIII
Top