Road & Track Article Z/28 vs.the World (Including Viper TA)

[RSNAKE]

This article is in the July 2014 issue. As usual, the Viper completely kicks the others butts on the track and earns disparaging remarks and backhanded compliments.

The new Z/28 gets all of this gushing praise in the press. While I am happy for the Camaro, I just wish that more writers and editors would give the Viper its due.

Track times:
Viper 1:23.4
Camaro Z/28 1.26.1
Nissan GT-R 1.26.4
Aston Martin V12 Vantage S 1:26.6

Keep in mind that in earlier magazine articles on a different day at another track, the Camaro Z/28 beat all comers, including the new 911 TTS.

The Viper just smokes these other cars and yet the comments about it in the article really get me angry. I don't know how the Viper will ever get a fair write-up from the magazines.

Still, it is nice to have objective numbers that are published that show that it is superior to the others on the track.

 

[voi9]

AMEN !!!!!!!!!!

 

[kdaviper]

The only article i've read that complained the TA's suspension was too soft... perhaps they should have switched it to "smooth track" mode?

Also, they complained about The Viper's length, when it was the shorter than all except the Aston.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I don't really care anymore about the expected by now bias against the Viper as long as it demolishes the competition on the road course like it did here. Shades of the original GTS dominance right here. Love it.

 

[JeffInDFW]

I absolutely give respect to GM's engineers. When the bean counters and "lets do a focus group" crowd leaves them alone, their power train and chassis engineers are a very talented group. The group that did this new Z/28 are REALLY my kind of guys. Just like why I love the ******** package ACR Viper, I love this new Z/28 for the same hard ass, all out effort. It is a shame the current Camaro platform is such a PIG (HEAVY), but even with that handy cap, they have taught it how to dance.

As for the writers dumping on the Viper.......Man, I figured out long ago that #1, most of the magazine writers are crap drivers. #2, they read what other writers write and then say the same thing. #3, whatever is the new car is always the winner and favorite.

 

[strykergts]

I absolutely give respect to GM's engineers. When the bean counters and "lets do a focus group" crowd leaves them alone, their power train and chassis engineers are a very talented group. The group that did this new Z/28 are REALLY my kind of guys. Just like why I love the ******** package ACR Viper, I love this new Z/28 for the same hard ass, all out effort. It is a shame the current Camaro platform is such a PIG (HEAVY), but even with that handy cap, they have taught it how to dance.

As for the writers dumping on the Viper.......Man, I figured out long ago that #1, most of the magazine writers are crap drivers. #2, they read what other writers write and then say the same thing. #3, whatever is the new car is always the winner and favorite.

I agree with you 100%, and at the end of the day, it is still a camaro. a 75k camaro at that. makes the srt viper look like a bargain at 99k. Makes one wonder why there is no griping by the mags about the absurd sticker price.

 

[Indy]

That's a good time for the Viper What track was that on?

 

[Twister]

I cant belieave the gtr was smashed by a camaro. A slow straight line camaro at that. Well done GM. Thatis an awesome cjoice for a track car.

 

[kdaviper]

I cant belieave the gtr was smashed by a camaro. A slow straight line camaro at that. Well done GM. Thatis an awesome cjoice for a track car.

Also a camaro with barely any peripheral systems.. no AC, no stereo, etc.

 

[RSNAKE]

I absolutely give respect to GM's engineers. When the bean counters and "lets do a focus group" crowd leaves them alone, their power train and chassis engineers are a very talented group. The group that did this new Z/28 are REALLY my kind of guys. Just like why I love the ******** package ACR Viper, I love this new Z/28 for the same hard ass, all out effort. It is a shame the current Camaro platform is such a PIG (HEAVY), but even with that handy cap, they have taught it how to dance.

I completely agree with this. I believe Mark Stielow was the lead engineer for the new Z/28. He has built some of the reference pro-touring Camaros. Literally wrote the book on pro-touring. I have spoken with him a few times and he knows his stuff. He is very smart, talented, a car guy through and through, and a nice person as well.

 

[Boxer12]

What track was this test done at?

 

[REDSLED]

Thermal. A private Country Club track near Palm Springs.

What track was this test done at?

 

[TrackAire]

Thermal. A private Country Club track near Palm Springs.

Off topic a bit, but do you have any opinions on this track and it's club type organization? Last time I was in Indian Wells a real estate agent was telling us about it. It sounds like a mini version of Spring Mountain. I'm going back down to the Indian Wells area next month and may go check it out.

Kind of crazy that you have the Chuckwalla Track and Thermal race club so close together.

Cheers,
George

 

[zim32]

Off topic a bit, but do you have any opinions on this track and it's club type organization? Last time I was in Indian Wells a real estate agent was telling us about it. It sounds like a mini version of Spring Mountain. I'm going back down to the Indian Wells area next month and may go check it out.

Kind of crazy that you have the Chuckwalla Track and Thermal race club so close together.

Cheers,
George

Have been at Chuckwalla may times and really enjoy it...has everything...elevation changes, on/off camber turns and very safe. Drove Thermal once...found it quite boring...no elevation or camber changes...like going up and down supermarket aisles...IMHO

 

[TrackAire]

Have been at Chuckwalla may times and really enjoy it...has everything...elevation changes, on/off camber turns and very safe. Drove Thermal once...found it quite boring...no elevation or camber changes...like going up and down supermarket aisles...IMHO

Thanks for the input....I had forgotten about Thermal until mentioned above. They wife wants to get a winter place in the Palm Springs area.....having two tracks in the area might make my life more interesting for me

 

[zim32]

Thanks for the input....I had forgotten about Thermal until mentioned above. They wife wants to get a winter place in the Palm Springs area.....having two tracks in the area might make my life more interesting for me

As I understand it...Thermal is a members only track with total "buy-in" north of 600k...which includes your own garage and unit but it is not zoned for residential so you can't even stay overnight!!
I have a home in La Quinta...if you're ever down that way let me know...I have good access to Chuckwalla Raceway...

 

[steve e]

The Viper kicked butt, and on crap tires, come on Ralph were are the Trofeo's for the Viper. Whats up with that.

 

[Bobpantax]

Point of information. Dodge now controls the Viper and the SRT performance niche outside of the SRT Jeep. The SRT Chrysler is no more. SRT, as a brand, is no more. Ralph is not the President or CEO of Dodge. So he is no longer in the decision chain regarding the Viper outside of his design function for North American vehicles and his role in Motorsports.

With that said, Dodge should consider the Trofeos as an option going forward assuming the correct sizes are available for the Gen V.

 

[redtanrt10]

Off topic a bit, but do you have any opinions on this track and it's club type organization? Last time I was in Indian Wells a real estate agent was telling us about it. It sounds like a mini version of Spring Mountain. I'm going back down to the Indian Wells area next month and may go check it out.

Kind of crazy that you have the Chuckwalla Track and Thermal race club so close together.

Cheers,
George

George as Zim says, private vs. public. I haven't been to that track but I've been told the facilities are better than Spring Mountain, if so, got to be one of the best.

I like Chuckwalla but it's 50 miles from the nearest hotel, Thermal maybe 10 miles?

 

[steve e]

Point of information. Dodge now controls the Viper and the SRT performance niche outside of the SRT Jeep. The SRT Chrysler is no more. SRT, as a brand, is no more. Ralph is not the President or CEO of Dodge. So he is no longer in the decision chain regarding the Viper outside of his design function for North American vehicles and his role in Motorsports.

With that said, Dodge should consider the Trofeos as an option going forward assuming the correct sizes are available for the Gen V.

Thanks for that info, and it explains a lot, I knew I saw Ralph at Burger King flipping burgers. All kidding aside, hope he is doing well.

 

[TrackAire]

George as Zim says, private vs. public. I haven't been to that track but I've been told the facilities are better than Spring Mountain, if so, got to be one of the best.

I like Chuckwalla but it's 50 miles from the nearest hotel, Thermal maybe 10 miles?

Thanks and also to Zim for the input on Thermal. Better facilities than Spring Mountain would be pretty impressive....going to have to check it out when I get down there on vacation. But the buy-in price seems way high at this point. Hopefully they will offer some type of club introduction track days to check it out.

Cheers,
George

 

[SnakeBitten]

The Viper kicked butt, and on crap tires, come on Ralph were are the Trofeo's for the Viper. Whats up with that.

It would be great to see the Viper on some super sticky tires again. Trofeo R's for the Mclaren P1 were just released in UK according to what I read on another site and the P1 is brand new. Much smaller sized than the Vipers though. No news on an ACR model yet so hopefully the TA gets it soon. After seeing the trouncing it dished out in this test on the Corsa's I would love to see the numbers with some sticky new shoes. With Trofeos the TA should break all the older ACR records methinks.

 

[Nine Ball]

Have any of you that complain about the Corsa tires tracked them? I have, and I found them very similar to the Michelin Sport Cups. They were better than the Michelin Super Sports. Don't knock them, until you try them, that is all I am saying. Not as sticky as some other tires, like those on the Z/28, but they aren't bad.

 

[REDSLED]

More info here. http://www.thethermalclub.com/

Thanks and also to Zim for the input on Thermal. Better facilities than Spring Mountain would be pretty impressive....going to have to check it out when I get down there on vacation. But the buy-in price seems way high at this point. Hopefully they will offer some type of club introduction track days to check it out.

Cheers,
George

 

[PeerBlock]

Hmm... $75K for a Camaro that doesn't look much different from the ones you can get for ~$25K...pass.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Have any of you that complain about the Corsa tires tracked them? I have, and I found them very similar to the Michelin Sport Cups. They were better than the Michelin Super Sports. Don't knock them, until you try them, that is all I am saying. Not as sticky as some other tires, like those on the Z/28, but they aren't bad.

NB in case this was also directed at me, I wasn't complaining/knocking the Corsa's just musing about how much more potent the TA would have been with equal sticky tires as on the ZR1/Z28 for example. If its this dominant with Corsa's just imagine what it would run with Trofeo's/current MPSC compounds etc. Nothing more nothing less was meant by my post.

 

[redtanrt10]

Finally got a chance to read this article today. Lot's of great things said about the T/A. This article was about the Z/28 and can it compete, not who's the best, surprised they didn't throw in a z/52 vette for comparision? Read closer, vipers the best on the track of this group.

Flaws, started to boil the fluid, pad float, so add motul or Castrol and track pads, viper brakes are great.

Gurney's suspension comments? Based on how they sourced the ACR KW's, I don't have track faith in srt, so go with MCS or moton's


the T/A ran close to 3 seconds faster than the Z/28, and they pointed out numerous times the Z had better tires. anyone seriously tracking either is going to be on Hoosiers, so on even tires viper is 5 seconds faster per lap???

In that case, run a 20 minute session at that track, first 2 minutes under yellow warming up the tires. At the end of the session the viper would be ahead by 1 minute or 2/3rds of a lap ahead.

At that price and vs. the track competition the Z's will be bought by magazine racers and collectors unless they have a spec series! (Wow, the magazine said they were good at the track, guess for $75K I should have bought a used ACR)

 

[drl650]

So the Z/28 Gives up what 140hp and I think it weighs in at 3850lbs? Was only 2.7 seconds slower? Pretty impressive times when you look at it like that. I just read about the tires, Yes the tires make a huge difference, Man I love the Viper never owned one due to seriously bad right shoulder, was hoping for an auto trans? Maybe if I bite the bullet and go thru with shoulder replacement? Anyway I just keep admiring the Viper, I will be getting the new Z06 Don't hate I need something and it comes with auto trans.

 

[MbnViper]

A viper with an auto ? lol

Auto's for Suvs and sedans nowadays. DCT for viper or no less if they want to compete, better marketing and power that's all this cars needs.

People will pay just go globally support the viper all over the world like the others.It will sell but keeping it for small specific markets then say bye bye even if it did the ring under 7 seconds.

Mbn