RT-10 practical for daily driver?

[Viper Scot]

I've posted a few times here on the subject of buying an RT-10. The time has come now for me to decide whether I'm going to do so or not. I live in California but will probably move back to the UK (Scotland) at the end of the year. If I buy a Viper, I'd like to take it back to the UK with me. Ideally I'd like a '96 GTS since an open top car is not the most practical for Scottish weather! But I think such a car might be just outside my budget ($35-40k). Also, it' far easier to import a car over 10 years old to the UK - I'm therefore looking for a '95 car and, hence, not a GTS. This also precludes a '96 RT-10 which would have been my second choice due to the extra power over older cars.

My main question is how practical is a standard soft-top '94 or '95 RT-10 in relation to poor weather conditions? Is it a case of if it's raining, don't take the car out of the garage? Should I therefore be looking for a car with factory hard top and glass sliding windows? How stable is either the factory hard top or soft top at speed?

Anyway, I'm in the market as it were so if anyone can give me advice or, indeed, knows of a suitable car for sale, let me know. Cheers,

Hamish

 

[IEATVETS]

From what I hear, the stock top and windows **** as$!! Autoform sells a GREAT top for the gen1 along with windows and Vipermania is working with Jeff Lemke on windows for a pretty good looking top he is making.

 

[Bandit3]

Speaking from experience---I own a 95---- the GTS'S are a more practical vehicle. Late model RT'S are also more practical, they have windows and door locks. We've been caught in rain storms without the top or windows--what a nightmare. Another factor-- the top is a pain to install, and leaks. I have a hard top, but even with it-- there is no way to secure it to the car to prevent theft. I love my old RT, and since I only drive on the weekends-- it's good for now. Unless a real deal shows on a late model GTS, I'm waiting for the new coupe. I hope DC listens to us and makes the CC streetable. John

 

[rcdice]

Love my RT and wouldn't trade it for anything. However, I would never consider this car as a daily driver. If there is ANY chance of rain, I don't drive it. And, I've got power windows. Soft top has never been on my car, I hear it's a pain in the a$$. Hard top is great but who wants to drive a RT with the hard top on? Not me!

If you really want to do this, my opinion would be to find a higher mileage, but well taken care of, GTS and deal with the extra import hassle. You will then have a slightly more practical daily driver Viper, in Europe. Power windows, roof, door locks, GEN II engine. Good luck.

 

[JWVIPER]

I have to agree with rcdice, I love my 95 in fact it is the only year, color, stripe scheme car I wanted but it is one of 4 cars I drive and not a daily driver. I would begin to hate the car if I had to drive it daily. THe GTS would be much more firendly if you absolutely must.

 

[STUGOTS]

I have a 99 RT with a hardtop and even tho I dont drive it with the hard top on I do leave it on when the car is parked as far as a daily driver I woul dhave to say no as much as I love my RT I would NOT use it as a daily driver unless of course you don't mind driving it with a hard top and in that case might as well get a GTS.

 

[ohiodoc]

I drive mine everyday here in vegas, except when it rains.

 

[David]

The earlier Vipers, for all practical purposes, should be considered collector cars. Parts availability is increasingly an issue. That, and they didn't make all that many of them compared to the likes of Ferrari or Porsche... Heck, there were more '63 split window Corvettes made than all Vipers combined. If you do get a Viper, get an inexpensive daily driver. You'll find that the difference in the insurance rates will more than make up for the 2nd car.

 

[tarfungo]

Hey Hamish,

I’m thinking, ‘not a daily driver’.

I have both a hard top and a soft top.

I never would attempt to drive in the rain with the soft top, and the hard top (OEM) is little better. They both leak. (Can’t say about after market hard tops, but I do have Vipermaina windows.)

The few times I have washed my snake with the side and back windows in and the top on resulted in just about as much required drying in the interior as there was on the outside!!! (Well, not really!)

I have never broken down my soft top so when I drive it’s only on ’top off’ days unless it’s just plain cold without a chance of rain. In this case, I will pop on a top – usually the Hardtop. I live in Kalifornia so I don’t have to hibernate my snake, but I try to have it ready to go should a nice day pop up during the winter months.

The hardtop takes a bit of work to get on and off - especially if you have been driving with the soft top or without a top. You have to remove the roll bar bolster in order to attach the hard top. This can take 15 minutes or better! The soft top is a little easier to get on and off regularly, but it doesn’t look as nice as the hardtop IMHO.

I agree with the others here that a GTS will better suffice as a daily driver. RT/10’s are for summer fun AND they are REALLY cool for this!!! There’s nothing like driving around with the top off and the sun beating down on you when you’re doing 100+!!!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I have a '94, now with ~73,000 miles and it's a daily driver in upstate New York (70 miles north of NYC.) From the factory, the top was an afterthought. Oh well.

Adding weatherstrip to the car side of where the door weatherstrip closes ended 60% of the rain leaks. Adding a thin layer of foam to the odd shaped rubber piece that is part of the roof around the latch key solved 20%. Depending on the angle the car parks at, water collecting on the rear deck will puddle against the rear window, and eventually it leaks through because the weatherstrip isn't snug in the corners. So I park on level or uphill ground. Adding a little foam at the top of the door "wing" helps. The foam weatherstrip surrounding the side curtains is not closed cell foam, so after a day's rain it gets saturated and seeps through. Bi-annual application of camping tent silicone fixes this. On the passenger foot box there are open cell foam gaskets where the heater core ******* come through. I used windshield silicone glue (a very runny form of silicone glue) to soak/saturate/seal these, as water off the windshield would puddle there and soak through. Lastly, remove the cowl cover and explore the bottom corner of the windshield area. There are "paths" for water to be blown up and over and drip down over the speaker grill. Won't happen when sitting, but can pour when driving. My car is outside 100%. Last resort is a "bikini top" that fits in a very small bag and despite only covering the greenhouse area, does cover all the leak entrances. I don't drive when there is packed snow on the ground, but don't hesitate if the snow is melting as it hits the road.

My next big thread will be to ask where people first notice their car has rust...

 

[RedEnuf93]

I had mine once in rain with original soft top, it leaked allover, so I decided never to do it again.

I am happy with my RT/10 in sunny weather without the top!

 

[DodgeViper01]

Just copied a response I did a while ago. Here you go:

I purchased my car with the intention with driving it everyday but after a while it looses that specialness that you bought the car for. It just start to sleep like a "normal" car. I also can't drive mine in the winter since we get snow so other than the winter and rain I am always driving it. Gotta love the spring and summer. I would suggest that if you are looking to get this car as an everyday driver that you thoroughly evaluate the situation questioning your weather, where it is going to be driven, etc. Believe me, you do not want to take this car to a mall, supermarket, or any other place with lots of people. I have been there and it is not a good feeling.

As for cost effectiveness. You must way in the fact that this car can be pricey to drive.

Oil changes are about $100 every 3,000 miles if done at the dealer. Yourself it can cost around $50-$75.

You also have to weigh in tires. Although the rears have come down a bit to around $200 each on eBay the fronts are still $300+ each. They must be changed (assuming you drive normally) around every 15K miles. This is assuming you are not doing burnouts everyday or every month.

Gas is a big one. This is not a practical car with gas. With 12 in the city (which you are lucky if you get LOL!) and 20 on the highway it is a guzzler. If you drive on the highway to work everyday it would not be that bad; unless it is stop and go the whole way.

Traffic! This car stinks in traffic. You will hate it if you get stuck in 2 or more hours of traffic. That clutch starts to really challenge your leg and there is no foot rest/dead pedal.

Parking. You must choose where you want to park wisely and then when you park you will always think is the car OK. I bought mine thinking this is just a car and I will drive it and park it carefully; but will take it everywhere. After a few months I realized it just was not the best idea. People get jealous sometimes and mess with the car, a door could be swung into your car, you begin to feel it is an exotic and should be taken car of as on, etc.

I am not trying to make your mind up for you but I just want to give you some information that I think is helpful. When I wanted to buy my car I came to this forum and the people here helped me a lot. I am not just trying to return the favor. Hope this helps. Now I have not outlined everything but this is what just came to mind. I wish you luck with your decision and let me know what it is regardless. I love hearing about people buying their first Viper. Also let me know what you think of the information I just gave you.

 

[Newport Viper]

I have a '94, now with ~73,000 miles and it's a daily driver in upstate New York (70 miles north of NYC.) From the factory, the top was an afterthought. Oh well.

Adding weatherstrip to the car side of where the door weatherstrip closes ended 60% of the rain leaks. Adding a thin layer of foam to the odd shaped rubber piece that is part of the roof around the latch key solved 20%. Depending on the angle the car parks at, water collecting on the rear deck will puddle against the rear window, and eventually it leaks through because the weatherstrip isn't snug in the corners. So I park on level or uphill ground. Adding a little foam at the top of the door "wing" helps. The foam weatherstrip surrounding the side curtains is not closed cell foam, so after a day's rain it gets saturated and seeps through. Bi-annual application of camping tent silicone fixes this. On the passenger foot box there are open cell foam gaskets where the heater core ******* come through. I used windshield silicone glue (a very runny form of silicone glue) to soak/saturate/seal these, as water off the windshield would puddle there and soak through. Lastly, remove the cowl cover and explore the bottom corner of the windshield area. There are "paths" for water to be blown up and over and drip down over the speaker grill. Won't happen when sitting, but can pour when driving. My car is outside 100%. Last resort is a "bikini top" that fits in a very small bag and despite only covering the greenhouse area, does cover all the leak entrances. I don't drive when there is packed snow on the ground, but don't hesitate if the snow is melting as it hits the road.

My next big thread will be to ask where people first notice their car has rust...

Ever think of writing a how to on Gen1 waterproofing with pics? Would be most helpful to alot of people....

 

[STUGOTS]

do they really leak THAT bad?

 

[ViperJohn]

That ***** that Gen 1's leak that bad. My 02 hasn't leaked at all the few times I have been out in the rain.

Having windows built into the doors must have really helped cut down on the leaks.

 

[Snakester]

I've had my R/T10 as a daily driver for about 4 years now, but it's a 2000, which has the hardtop and power windows.

The newer top is fine for occasional light showers, and it leaks a bit in hard driving rain.

But I've driven in Scotland, and it's not the car that I'd want to own there. The combination of regular rain, narrow-rutted roads, and super high gas prices would make the R/T 10 a tough sell in Scotland.

The GTS shares many of these issues, but it's certainly more water tight.

The positive side is that you might not ever see another Viper on the roads of Scotland, unless you are perhaps attending a Viper club meet.
And even then there are likely only going to be a tiny few Vipers there.

It's not a stretch to say that the Viper is an Exotic car in Scotland, but like most exotic cars, practicality is not a priority, and at the very least I'd have a cheap ****** car for poor weather and city errand driving.

 

[PDCjonny]

My '98 GTS gets quite a bit of water inside after a thorough car washing, I always have to dry off the inside sills and doors. All the weatherstripping is still supple and intact. I guess it's just the nature of the door design.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Newport, it's ~5F outside. Not going to take pictures now. In finding leaks, I think part of the problem is that all cars are not the same and will leak or not in different places. For instance, my windshield frame is 1/4" to 3/8" offset to the driver's side, so passenger side leaks were more common. I will put this on the list for spring.

As a Gen 1 advocate, hate to say that they leak that bad, but the foam rubber was not an all-weather choice. It took a while to realize that I didn't have a leak due to a "hole" but leaks due to the sponge gaskets getting saturated (usually took a day plus) and water just weeps/seeps/soaks through.

 

[joe117]

The stock soft top is ugly. All of the hard tops available now are ugly.
The new one that is being developed, that comes apart for trunk stowage and fits flat to the sport bar, is da bomb. (I believe this means good in young people speak)
That's the only top anyone should consider buying right now. All the others are now obsolete.

The side curtains are all a bad solution. Some may be better than others but all of them are a poor substitute for roll up windows.
You will not like any of the side curtains for daily use.

Leaks? The gen1 cars can be made leak resistant enough for occasional use but I predict that you will not be able to waterproof the gen1 enough for daily use.

I don't believe the gen1 Vipers are safe to drive in heavy rain or in any ice or snow conditions.
The lack of traction control and the oversteer of the gen1 require a very alert driver.
Do you want to be required to be very alert every time you drive, day in and day out?

Other people's doors, stones chips, possible vandals, speed bumps, stop and go traffic and all the other things that your Viper will be subjected to in daily service, will cause deterioration.



Gen1 as a daily driver?
It will be very hard to enjoy your Viper in that roll.

 

[Bandit3]

On the subject of fuel mileage--mine has gotten 28plus mpg on the highway and generally gets around 20-25 in traffic. Well, of course, keeping my right foot off the floor. John

 

[joe117]

"20-25 in traffic"
Wow, my 96 Corvette does almost that well but my Viper is more like half that.

Are you sure your odometer is right? Did you change the rear end ratio without the cal box?

Check under the hood and see if someone slipped a V6 in there.

 

[Bandit3]

Did I mention that I drive it downhill both ways?? John

 

[Mopar426]

T Heck, there were more '63 split window Corvettes made than all Vipers combined.

Actually there were only 10,594 '63 split window coupes built.

 

[LynnS]

Hamish:

Something to consider here is the physical size of the cars. As you will recall, the UK roads are very tight, especially in the cities and towns. Also “hooliganism” might be a factor, as several of my friends have had their new/nice cars “keyed”, scratched and otherwise harmed in the UK. The almost constant rain really complicates controlling a car with such wide tires.

Of course, the gas prices must be considered unless you are wealthy. A Viper would be quite a statement in the UK, but personally I would suggest you wait until you return to Scotland and size-up the situation in light of the restrictions, legal and otherwise. Then if you still want to take the plunge, buy it through one of the reputable companies that deal with used Vipers and have it shipped. Insure fully when and if you have one shipped. A friend of mine who have a ’54 Chevy crated and shipped suffered damage from the crate nails being driven through the crate into the top of the car itself!

 

[Viper Scot]

I've owned a fairly exotic car (Skyline GTR) in Scotland before and never had any problems with vandalism. That's probably more of a problem in nasty England! I was thinking about the practicalities of having an RT-10 here in Cali as a daily driver as I'd certainly get a second cheap car if/when I went back to Scotland (mainly due to fuel prices, 3 times what they are in CA!). My Skyline also had 'sideways issues' in adverse weather - with nearly 500bhp and effectively rear wheel drive, you had to take it super easy. On more than one occassion I got an unplanned 360 degree panorama coming out of a roundabout!

One of my main decision factors in getting the car would be the re-sale value in the UK. This is quite hard to assess since there are so few Vipers over there and even less for sale. On the one hand they're very rare and probably sought after but on the other they're left-hand drive, thirsty and not particularly practical. Also, it makes far more sense for me to buy one here and take it back with me rather than import one once I'm back in the UK. Owning one for >6months here means that I would avoid paying tax and duty on it when it enters the UK.