Save your Viper Engine

womsterr

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
272
Reaction score
0
I saw this post on another forum. I have one on order to give it a try. What do you think? Its the Accusump Oil Accumulator.

You must be registered for see images


This fellow is a SRT Ram tuner. [email protected]

"Guys, did you know that 50% of engine wear accurs at startup? The first, as I'm sure you've heard before, is during the start-up procedure.

When you reach for that ignition your engine oil is sitting in your oil pan, maybe a little in your oil filter.

But there is none where your engine needs it the most, where those metal on metal surfaces are.

So as you turn that key and your engine starts to spin, your engine has no oil pressure, no supply of oil to those moving parts.

Until your engine is running and the oil pump is pumping, it has very little protection from this kind of metal on metal wear.
after sitting for a while, oil drains back to the pan uncovering vital bearing surfaces leaving them exposed for the few seconds at startup until is recirculated again. also Viper engines dont have cam bearings. the cam rides directly in the aluminum block itself, so premature wear can occur from lubrication issues. i have been working on putting together this kit that will not only prelube your engine prior to startup, but also protect it should when you are driving/racing you lose oil pressure, this product will release 3 qaurts of pressurized oil back into the oil system.

The second condition when your engine loses oil pressure is during an extreme condition when the oil pressure surges.

Such as everyday hard braking and turning on the street (and most certainly on the track), extreme vehicle angles such as off-road conditions or in marine applications when there happens to be rough conditions.

These are the same conditions that would spill your coffee out of your coffee cup.

During these times the oil in the pan moves away from the oil pick-up tube (the tube that the oil pump ***** the oil out of the oil pan through) and there is a sudden loss of oil pressure.

Again leaving your engine without that vital lubrication.
this is how it works:
On initial start-up when the valve on the oil side is opened the pressurized oil is released into the engine and therefore pre-lubricating the engine prior to start-up.

The Accusump holds whatever oil pressure the engine has at the time that it is shut off.

After the engine is started and the oil pump has taken over, oil is pumped back into the Accusump.

This moves the piston back and pressurizes the Accusump until it equalizes with engine's oil pressure.

While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal.

This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine.

In racing or hard driving conditions, the Accusump will automatically fill and discharge when needed as you corner, accelerate and brake.
we have a oil filter sandwich adapter that goes between the oil filter & block, a 10AN braided line goes to the Billet accusump. this is also a great product for guys with superchargers/turbos as it can be configured as an aftercooler luber to cool the bearings at shutdown. the kit i am putting together will include everything needed to install it, and an electric solenoid that wires in so that when you turn the key on the solenoid will open allowing the accusump to fill the oilsystem prelubing the engine, (& or blower -turbo) as you watch the oil pressure gauge show pressure instantly! then when the engine is turned off the solenoid closes, holding oil pressure to what is was prior to turning off the key. this will also add 3 more qaurts of capacity to the oil system!
The Accusump is built from a heavy wall, roller burnished aluminum tubing which is Teflon coated inside.
Features include a double o-ring piston, screw in billet aluminum end caps, saftey end clamps to prevent distortion, air pressure gauge, air pre-charge valve and a safety blow-off valve. i have been working on this kit & it will have a braided steel hose with billet an fittings, the electric solenoid, the safety valve, oil filter adapter, hardware, and i will post step by step instructions with pictures. forum price is $445 for it all.
the install should take no more than 30-45 minutes.
i have this kit installed on both of trucks, & my car. so i have everything worked out for our srt to be perfect. this is the smartest thing you could do for yourself & your baby, no matter if you hot rod it or not, this WILL keep your Viper engine alive longer. you dont want to price a Viper rebuild! so step up & post here your interest & i can get your kit to you."
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
398
Reaction score
0
Location
Palm Desert, CA, USA
I have an Accu-Sump in my GTS and $445 is an attractive price. I recall paying about $700 for the materials with a $300 labor fee for my car. After seeing the install completed I'm glad I paid someone to do it. The 3 quart models are typically mounted along the transmission tunnel in a Viper.

The 30-45 minute install estimate is probably optimistic (maybe it is much easier for an SRT Ram because of underhood space available). 5-6 hours for a first timer would be my guess.

Of course I would struggle to change just my oil in 30 minutes, but that's me. :rolleyes:
 

MAVERICK

Viper Owner
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Posts
327
Reaction score
0
Location
South Florida
Would this replace the need for a comp coupe oil pan for the SRT.... needed if you are racing with racing slicks.
 

Viper Specialty

Legacy/Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Posts
5,761
Reaction score
78
Location
Cape Coral, FL
I have been building these systems for Vipers for years, excellent quality and will work perfectly. shoot me an e-mail if you have any questions...I had developed a system for my SRT right after I bought it... many revisions and now kink-free with no underlying issues.

I am very interested to see how this system is being constructed for that price. I personally will not use anything but the BEST components in my systems... all aluminum fittings, Electronic Pressure Control systems, Stainless gauges, fabricated oil lines, etc... and there is NO WAY it would be worth my time even writing out the paperwork to sell one for 445.00 (If I even broke even!), and I have a high-level account with Canton Racing and get very good pricing. The single oil line alone for tapping into the oil system in an SRT will run me almost 100 bucks, my cost, just to put together.

Whatever you do, DO NOT try to use a sandwhich adapter as a tap in point to the oiling system, the oil filter will stick below the frame and you will be asking for a catastrophe. I have custom fabricated oil lines which have a Tee adapter in them if needed.

Also, one of these systems on a car which is going to be used for track duty without an Electronic Pressure Control System is REALLY asking for it. With the stock valving, if the system unloads oil into the engine, it can take MINUTES to recover it back into the engine. In this time period, the oil can foam, leading to increased wear and possible engine failure under the right extreme circumstances.

Dont take this as bashing, but if there is one field of the Viper aftermarket I have spent WAAAY too much time for my own good in, its this one. I have many of these systems out in customers cars, local friends cars, and my own, and I have yet to have a system fail in any type of a catastrophic way. In fact, the only system failure I have had was the result of a leaky fill ****** and a shipping-damaged gauge... and that only resulted in the system not working, but did not compromise the oiling system in the car whatsoever. That system was rebuilt to current specs 6 months ago and has been working without a problem since.

If I can save someone from severely damaging their car, I have done my job. The oiling system is the lifeblood of the car, and is NOT to be taken lightly in any way, shape, or form. All of my setups have been tried and true, tested on my own car for MONTHS before I even put one on a customers car, in every case going through multiple revisions until my way-too-anal self is happy with its integrity. I am in no way trying to solicit my product to you, but please, take my advice- whoever you buy it from.
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,764
Reaction score
1
If you have someone install it for you, better check all the connections. Several of them could be quite loose, and leaking. :eek:
 

Kelly06

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Posts
369
Reaction score
0
Location
Redwood City, CA
I have heard the above for years and years and don't disbelieve it. However, I have never seen engine damage over these years and years (assuming the car is not raced). I wonder why?
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
Daniel will want to stick his arm into the screen and poke me in the eye, but as an ex-lubricant formulator, start-up wear is !!hugely!! over exaggerated. The additives in oil stay on the metal surfaces, even after long periods of not running. Additives are what provide the anti-wear, anti-friction, rust and corrosion, and cleanliness functions. In fact, due to zero OEM concern about start-up wear, there is no "start-up engine test" in the API or ILSAC engine oil certification system. The closest thing for starting is low temperature oil flow in bench equipment (measured at various temperatures well below freezing) of new and used oil, and that's only to see if it becomes waxy and solid. Yes, you may question the Castrol "start-up" oil and what it supposedly does... (besides remove legal tender from your wallet.)

Providing lubricant when the oil pick up is uncovered in a high-g situation is, of course, a good thing.
 

Viper Specialty

Legacy/Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Posts
5,761
Reaction score
78
Location
Cape Coral, FL
Tom- Thats where you have it wrong... I was not trying to gain a customer from this post, I was only trying to keep someone from making costly mistakes...there will be no eye poking. I think we could both agree that an engine with a -10 AN sized leak in the oiling system is a bad thing, yes?

I have my opinion on things, as do you. I respect your opinion, and I'll leave it at that.
 

Got Venom

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Posts
487
Reaction score
0
Location
SUNNYVALE,CALIF.
I agree with Tom,

What about those commercials years ago about how long an engine could run if it were using synthetic oil , and the oil pressure dropped to zero? If it were truely a problem, someone like BMW would come out with a pre-oiler to make Mercedes look bad. But since I work with oils and lubricants all my life, I have a simple test for you. Dip both of your hands in a bucket of synthetic oil, and clasp your hands together. Then sit there for a week or so, and see how it feels after 10 days. I have a feeling you will not last this long, ;-) but it will be fine. The oil is not just going to disappear. The track thing, and having the correct SRT oil pan is a must if you are racing though.
 

Vintage Racer

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Posts
238
Reaction score
0
Location
Cincinnati OH
Most of the fender race cars I see have Accu Sump systems. Their issue is loss of suction on the oil pump intake in long carousel turns and sometimes under hard braking.

Formula cars run dry sumps and get around the start up problem by preheating the oil, pulling the spark plugs and rolling the engine on the starter until oil pressure shows. Plugs go back in, engine gets fired and it's race time. Once you've done your first run of the day, the oil preheating issue is addressed and it's just a matter of rolling the engine until oil pressure comes up.
 

DEVILDOG

VCA Member North TX
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Posts
2,444
Reaction score
0
Location
VENOMVILLE, TEXAS, USA
Daniel will want to stick his arm into the screen and poke me in the eye, but as an ex-lubricant formulator, start-up wear is !!hugely!! over exaggerated. The additives in oil stay on the metal surfaces, even after long periods of not running. Additives are what provide the anti-wear, anti-friction, rust and corrosion, and cleanliness functions. In fact, due to zero OEM concern about start-up wear, there is no "start-up engine test" in the API or ILSAC engine oil certification system. The closest thing for starting is low temperature oil flow in bench equipment (measured at various temperatures well below freezing) of new and used oil, and that's only to see if it becomes waxy and solid. Yes, you may question the Castrol "start-up" oil and what it supposedly does... (besides remove legal tender from your wallet.)

Providing lubricant when the oil pick up is uncovered in a high-g situation is, of course, a good thing.

How long do the additives stay on the metal surfaces "after long periods of not running"?
 

luc

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 19, 2000
Posts
1,038
Reaction score
6
Location
Paso Robles CA
I agree 100% with Tom, this 50% wear during startup is nothing more than marketing gimick,engine life is built-in during design and is at a minimum 150k to 500K (big rig diesel)
on a Viper,with the very low yearly annual miles, it will be a lot smarter to invest those $500/$700 cost of the Accusump in a good money market and after 30 years (5K/year/150K design life), you will have more than enough to buy/rebuilt a few engines
As for how long the additives stay on the metal,i have some spare Ford 9" rear pumpking/gears that are still covered with Red Line Heavy Duty Shockproof gear lube after 5 years.

luc.00GTS
 

Viper X

Former VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Posts
3,471
Reaction score
2
Daniel,

What do you sell your SRT-10 Accusump install kit for?

How long should it take for an average ability enthusiast to install?

Dan
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
The additives will stay until they oxidize or they are heated. Anti-wear, anti-friction and many other additives don't do anything until heated somewhat (which is why overcooling your oil is bad, besides the fact you wouldn't boil the condensed water out) and then they become affixed to a metal surface. They would stay there until rubbed/worn off by the normal use of the engine (additives are sacrificial) and then replaced by other free-floating additives. There is a great deal of competition for metal surfaces (and why adding lubricant additives *****-nilly is risky.) Super heating would cause them to further decompose (but by then something else has gone wrong.) So without being too flip, the answer to how long they stay is "forever" which means 5 - 10 years in an engine that has minimal air flow through it when stored.
 

Ray W

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 28, 2000
Posts
906
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lauderdale,FL USA
I have Dan's system on my 98 GTS and have been very pleased for the past 2 years. I feel anyone can do what he has done
after seeing the system. Even though I could copy what he has done for my SRT and save a few dollars,I Will Not.

If you don't have your own shop and you aren't going to duplicate the system over and over it simply is not worth
it. Everything you will need he sends you. You are not going all over town looking for parts. If you are paying for the install they won't have to waste time either.

Lastly is it needed if you aren't racing? My feeling is no.
It is nice after a week of sitting to put 30lbs of pressure
in the engine before starting and have it start as if you just turned it off 1 minute earlier. It is nice to have 3 more quarts of oil available should the engine want it.
And it is worth having someone else do the install thinking
for you.
 

DEVILDOG

VCA Member North TX
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Posts
2,444
Reaction score
0
Location
VENOMVILLE, TEXAS, USA
The additives will stay until they oxidize or they are heated. Anti-wear, anti-friction and many other additives don't do anything until heated somewhat (which is why overcooling your oil is bad, besides the fact you wouldn't boil the condensed water out) and then they become affixed to a metal surface. They would stay there until rubbed/worn off by the normal use of the engine (additives are sacrificial) and then replaced by other free-floating additives. There is a great deal of competition for metal surfaces (and why adding lubricant additives *****-nilly is risky.) Super heating would cause them to further decompose (but by then something else has gone wrong.) So without being too flip, the answer to how long they stay is "forever" which means 5 - 10 years in an engine that has minimal air flow through it when stored.

Thanks Tom! Now I don't feel so bad about being too busy and going 2 months between start ups. Unless there is something else to be concerned about? :D
 

Frank 03SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
1,225
Reaction score
0
Location
Somewhere in Kansas
I wonder if the claim of 50% wear on startup is backed up by experimental data? Bet not. If it was based on fact, the number would be 47%, or 63.2%.
 

Tom F&L GoR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
4,984
Reaction score
7
Location
Wappingers Falls
Frank, keep going! 50% wear in what engine? What year engine? How many miles on it? What viscosity grade was tested? How long did it crank before starting? How long did it run before the next test? What temperature oil? Cranking speed? How long did it sit between starts? Aluminum block/liner or iron? 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinders...
 
OP
OP
W

womsterr

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
272
Reaction score
0
I wonder if the claim of 50% wear on startup is backed up by experimental data? Bet not. If it was based on fact, the number would be 47%, or 63.2%.

I think you all are picking up on only one small point of the total system. Wear does occur at start up, true. I've not come accross empircal data, no. Haven't looked that hard. That is only a small reason I purchased a kit.

The primary reason I did was oil starvation problems at the track under hard acceleration, turning and braking manuevers. This, to me, is the primary benefit.

The fact that you can have oil pressure before you fire her up is nice addition. I've probably spent close to $20k in aftermarket upgrades on my SRT (Ram) - I figured for $400 and change I'd take a chance.

Invest it in a money market? Um - wow you sound just like my old man. The same one who asks me why I need a 600+hp vehicle ;) hehe

I've made significant upgrades to my engine - ordered a paxton with this setup. If I can provide any added protection to an engine I'm asking to more than originally set up for I'm gonna proceed.

I'll let you know my thoughts when I get her on!
 

luc

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 19, 2000
Posts
1,038
Reaction score
6
Location
Paso Robles CA
Of course wear does occur at start up,as well than when the engine is running,otherwise an engine will last forever, the real question is how much more "life" an engine designed for $150k miles will gain with an Accusump.
5,10,50,100 miles?

I agree with you that oil starvation is a lot more serious issue but, the Accusump is only a Bandaid since it's doing nothing to solve the problem,only the symptoms (spel?).

I have been racing various cars (Formula V, Roush Trans/AM, Vintage Mustangs,etc)for many years and when a dry sump system can't be used ($,rules,design,etc)a well designed oil pan with baffles as well than the correct oil level,will do the job.(meaning solving the roots of the problem,not the symptoms.

Also, on a race car, you're always looking to save weight and complexity, not adding it as an Accusump does.

luc.00GTS
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
398
Reaction score
0
Location
Palm Desert, CA, USA
Accusump = Poor Man's Dry Sump (Band-aid).

Unfortunately for me I put on my Bandaid (Accusump) during the install of my new engine after losing the old one on Turn 8 at Willow Springs. That high speed sweeper on a very hot day killed it.

And yes, I had a trap door oil pan when I blew it up. I'm sure we could dispute the finer points of baffle designs, etc. - but I thought I was protected and well.......I wasn't.

I could have just opted for a dry sump with my new engine and bagged more horsepower in the process. All it takes is cash. :p

If you track your car with mods and sticky tires, do something before you blow your engine - not after, like me. Just my opinion.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,645
Posts
1,685,216
Members
18,221
Latest member
tractor1996
Top