SCT for the Gen 5

[Jack B]

I talked to a very good source today and SCT is releasing their new CC tuning platform within the next 90 days. Their plans were to add the Gen 5 PCM to their package and then do the Gen 4, however, they could not find a Gen 5 to use as a mule, so they developed the Gen 4 tuning software first. That means the Gen 4 package should be out with the new SCT platform along with the tuning capability for several other newer CC cars. The Gen 5 is supposed to follow fairly quick. If I were to rate the accuracy of this info, I would give it a 90%+ chance of happening. The new hardware is already finished.

Here is the chance for all those on the fence about the Gen 5 because of the locked PCM to stand up to the plate with their cash, otherwise we will know they are blowhards who never would have purchased a Gen 5. I know what they will say, "seeing is believing". When the Gen 5 tuning package is released another excuse will pop up.

 

[speedracervr4]

I would post this in the Florida section or ask them to email people in the chapter to see if they would be willing to use there gen 5 as a mule.

 

[Steve M]

April fools?

 

[ViperSmith]

As many people who have been saying "If it had this I'd buy it" - then put your cash up and be the test mule

 

[Jack B]

No, this is good info

April fools?

 

[Steve M]

No, this is good info

I hope it comes to pass.

 

[Jack B]

I just put it in the North/Central forum.

I would post this in the Florida section or ask them to email people in the chapter to see if they would be willing to use there gen 5 as a mule.

 

[mnc2886]

I talked to a very good source today and SCT is releasing their new CC tuning platform within the next 90 days. Their plans were to add the Gen 5 PCM to their package and then do the Gen 4, however, they could not find a Gen 5 to use as a mule, so they developed the Gen 4 tuning software first. That means the Gen 4 package should be out with the new SCT platform along with the tuning capability for several other newer CC cars. The Gen 5 is supposed to follow fairly quick. If I were to rate the accuracy of this info, I would give it a 90%+ chance of happening. The new hardware is already finished.

Here is the chance for all those on the fence about the Gen 5 because of the locked PCM to stand up to the plate with their cash, otherwise we will know they are blowhards who never would have purchased a Gen 5. I know what they will say, "seeing is believing". When the Gen 5 tuning package is released another excuse will pop up.

If this happens.....MERRY X-MAS Gen V!!

 

[ACRucrazy]

Are there even any headers available for the V yet?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Are there even any headers available for the V yet?

Yep, I have sold 3 sets of Belangers so far.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yep, I have sold 3 sets of Belangers so far.

Let's get some on the dyno!

 

[bushido]

I think American Racing has headers already. a good 5 into 1 header.. Are Belangers still a Tri Y?

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

I hope this is true. .I for one will buy my 4th Viper the next day(Gen.5)when the computer issues are fixed and the issues that go with it. No way am I going the drag strip with a car that pulls power and bogs and people talking shixx about it. The Gen.5 must get in the 10s,being pretty stock and I am good to go.Have a friend in same situation. The dealer here in Palm Beach has 9 at fire sales prices,2 I like....
Again,the issues MUST be fixed or they can keep the Gen.5s even giving them away..

Glad some you all are trying to solve a problem that is really a problem SRT should b addressing....

Good Luck...

 

[FastMatt]

If this is true it will be grate. gen 4's should get over 700 rwhp N/A with heads/cam/tuning

 

[bushido]

that is really a problem SRT should b addressing....

Good Luck...

I think here's the problem regarding tuning,and the ECU..

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2128626-post54.html

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2130162-post58.html

 

[Steve M]

I think here's the problem regarding tuning,and the ECU..

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2128626-post54.html

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2130162-post58.html

I've heard both of those, and saw a new one regarding the Mopar PCM for Gen 5s mentioned by Herb in the latest Viper magazine (which are getting thinner and thinner BTW). He indicated that the EPA might be trying to outlaw any type of OEM off-road calibration, hence why it hasn't been released for the Gen 5 yet. Not sure how much truth there is to it, but it might explain why we haven't seen one yet, and make an aftermarket solution the only option for even basic bolt-ons for those cars. I'm wondering if they would prohibit any further sales of the Gen 4 Mopar PCM while they were at it...

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I think American Racing has headers already. a good 5 into 1 header.. Are Belangers still a Tri Y?

Yes they are and I would bet money the Belanger equipped car would be faster ;-)

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Jack, if that's indeed true, that may actually be what saves the Viper. I'm serious. If guys with Gen IV's and V's can start modifying their cars again, it may revive the Viper community. I know a couple of guys who sold their Gen IV's simply because they got bored with them due to the inability to do anything beyond headers, exhaust and Mopar ECU.

I've been dying to pick up a Gen IV ACR, but wouldn't do it witout the ability to run AT LEAST a nice heads/cam package if not a big blower like I do on my GTS.

An SCT tuner anywhere under $1500 would be PERFECT for 90% of the guys wanting to do mild mods to their Gen IV or V and get the most out of their car.

 

[bushido]

Yes they are and I would bet money the Belanger equipped car would be faster ;-)

Ha I was just wondering that's all..

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hey Jack,

I also recently spoke to SCT about the new releases, and I think whoever you spoke to may have jumped the gun on this one. The new devices are of course a reality, and are needed to support some of the newer dodge products- no surprise there and is of course true. However, the hardware being completed and software being written are two very different things. The Viper application is still too small to make a good business case, especially as an early launch. SCT did confirm that a couple Vipers have been in and out of R&D, but that would have likely been for scanning and download purposes- engineering the new UI is far more involved, and there would need to be a solid customer base to justify it, as well as extensive in-house testing. Remember that the Viper application is a good bit different than any other application they are running, and some of the software is proprietrary and owned by other companies- this means that it would require even more reverse engineering than other applications as parts of the code will not cross reference into anything recognizable.

In short, I wouldnt count on the Viper applications to be leading the way on this new hardware. If it happens, it would likely be bringing up the rear.

 

[bushido]

I've heard both of those, and saw a new one regarding the Mopar PCM for Gen 5s mentioned by Herb in the latest Viper magazine (which are getting thinner and thinner BTW). He indicated that the EPA might be trying to outlaw any type of OEM off-road calibration, hence why it hasn't been released for the Gen 5 yet. Not sure how much truth there is to it, but it might explain why we haven't seen one yet, and make an aftermarket solution the only option for even basic bolt-ons for those cars. I'm wondering if they would prohibit any further sales of the Gen 4 Mopar PCM while they were at it...

It doesn't makes since. If it's not law, then it's currently legal. Folks are tuning, modding C7's as we speak..

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Hey Jack,

I also recently spoke to SCT about the new releases, and I think whoever you spoke to may have jumped the gun on this one. The new devices are of course a reality, and are needed to support some of the newer dodge products- no surprise there and is of course true. However, the hardware being completed and software being written are two very different things. The Viper application is still too small to make a good business case, especially as an early launch. SCT did confirm that a couple Vipers have been in and out of R&D, but that would have likely been for scanning and download purposes- engineering the new UI is far more involved, and there would need to be a solid customer base to justify it, as well as extensive in-house testing. Remember that the Viper application is a good bit different than any other application they are running, and some of the software is proprietrary and owned by other companies- this means that it would require even more reverse engineering than other applications as parts of the code will not cross reference into anything recognizable.

In short, I wouldnt count on the Viper applications to be leading the way on this new hardware. If it happens, it would likely be bringing up the rear.

THIS^^^^^^

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

It doesn't makes since. If it's not law, then it's currently legal. Folks are tuning, modding C7's as we speak..

Yes, I think that is what they may claim, but I would guess it is a liability thing for Chrysler to offer it more then a regulation issue. If it was just a tunable controller that takes it out of their hands, but if THEY provide the calibration they could be liable for it's use, no?

 

[ViperSmith]

What is required to crack an ECU?

 

[Viper Specialty]

What is required to crack an ECU?

Crack is a relative term. I can "crack" an ECU by simply using an SMD rework station to remove and replace the Flash memory and processor- it would then be "blank" and nothing more than hardware. The problem is having the user interface and software/firmware to tune it. Those are massively complex programs that would need to be written from scratch.

Downloading the code is only half the battle- that is just the instruction set in the ECU. You still need to write the user interface that makes sense of that information to *us*.

 

[Wolfc2e]

I'm willing to help write the software... Check your ***

 

[Viper Specialty]

I'm willing to help write the software... Check your ***

Already e-mailed you, curious what you have to say.

 

[Bobpantax]

Being able to recalibrate a Gen IV or Gen V controller would be great. But that is only part of the issue where boost applications are concerned. As we saw from the development of the Roe positive displacement supercharger, which I had on my Gen II, developing one for the ten cylinder engine is not a cake walk. Getting the runners and fuel distribution right is not easy. It takes research and performance and durability testing to get it right.

On the other hand, if SRT could somehow provide some data to Paxton in a manner that would not run afoul of any applicable law or existing contractual obligations regarding the program, it seems to me that with Paxton's extensive experience with the Gen III kit, it could expedite the development of a kit for the Gen IV and Gen V if Paxton perceived that there was enough demand to do it.

That's the rub. It is sort of a chicken and egg situation. The development costs for the kit, including any CARB approval process that may be required is not cheap. So Paxton would need to know that they can sell enough kits to justify the effort. There are only three years of Gen IV sales with the last year being a small number and, as we know, less than 500 Gen V Vipers have been sold to date based on recent press data. So realistically, unless Chrysler/Mopar is willing to help subsidize the development of a kit in some fashion, it is hard to see how the development of a kit is going to happen.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but it seems to me that logically the probability of a supercharger kit being developed is remote. I hope that I am proven wrong. A Gen V with a positive displacement supercharger like that on the ZR1 would be an irresistable car for the hot rodder/gear head set. A Gen V with a Paxton kit would be almost as irresistable.

It would be a lovely Christmas/Hannukah gift from SRT if they announced that they somehow figured out a way to provide data; some of their knowledge; and, a few test mules to a supercharger manufacturer and that a kit was under development by that manufacturer for release some time in the first half of 2014. And of course it would be important for that date to be a hard date. The ever changing dates were a significant part of the marketing problem. Proper expectation management is crucial.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Uh... Bob... where have you been? We are right in the middle of developing exactly what you are asking for. LOL

I have ZERO doubt at this point that a Gen-5 package will be following our Gen-4 release.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...options...-time-for-a-head-count.-POLL-INSIDE

 

[donk_316]

Why not build a harness "adaptor" and run whatever PCM you want like an Aem or whatever and totally bypass / throw away the venom unit

Harness adaptor would be relatively simple process