SCT Tuning

[EllowViper]

SO other than DC Performance's recent work with BAZ, anyone else been learning anything regarding DIY tuning with the SCT? Specifically for boosted applications? I'm hoping that there will be a Pro Racer tuning package deal coming out over the Holidays again (Dan Lesser) !! I'd like to get away from my VEC and get into the PCM for control of my ROE system. I'm not too concerned about getting in over my head if I have some help to pull from here on the forum...but its been really quite regarding the SCT and boosted GEN-II applications.

 

[Viper Grenade]

I'd like to know as well. I wonder how a SCT would do on a TT set up. I've heard of it working...but never seen it.

 

[vpower01]

I would just call Sean at Roe when he gets back...my tt setup is SCT so he is the one to ask, well also Dan lesser.

 

[ASASN]

I know of a TT Viper (97) just completed using the SCT Tuner, worked great...same shop has a 510ci recently completed, also tuned with the SCT and worked great as well...

 

[BOTTLEFED]

This is why I'm waiting a little longer. I want a few more DIYers to get help.

Eric, maybe we can both get one this winter and work on learning it for spring

 

[Viper Specialty]

This is why I'm waiting a little longer. I want a few more DIYers to get help.

Eric, maybe we can both get one this winter and work on learning it for spring

Waiting is doing little more than costing you money and wasting time you could be spending on learning it?

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Waiting is doing little more than costing you money and wasting time you could be spending on learning it?

not when my car isn't running

 

[Viper Specialty]

not when my car isn't running

Aaaaaand why wouldn't it be running?

 

[ViperTony]

Aaaaaand why wouldn't it be running?

Really? Catch up here: http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/630480-project-bullet-proof-v-10-a.html

 

[plumcrazy]

dan, is the SCT really capable of handling a 12-14 PSI boosted car ? and do it well ?

 

[dipapa]

I swore i heard when i was briefly contemplating going built motor with Paxton 8 months back my tuner said keep my VEC3.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Really? Catch up here: http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/630480-project-bullet-proof-v-10-a.html

ahhhh, I see.

However, having the car down is the BEST time to start learning the software and look around. Hell, I started learning a new advanced computer system six months before I actually got an upload to a computer on a car built to run it. It is much, much easier if you start fiddling with it in your spare time, with no pressure, than to try and learn it while getting your car running. It will drive you nuts because *IT* will become a delay for you, rather than a progression.

 

[Viper Specialty]

dan, is the SCT really capable of handling a 12-14 PSI boosted car ? and do it well ?

As long as the car does not require any abrupt swings in fueling due to airflow anomolies or trying to run a crazy camshaft on a TT application, etc... it should be able to handle 1-Bar of boost without too much of a hassle.

 

[EllowViper]

I guess that is my quandry. What "approach" is best for handling the abrupt swing in fueling & timing that a ROE gives you? My ROE with the 2.8 blower and .580-.600 lift solid roller cam goes from vacuum to 12+ PSI in the blink of an eye. I have to believe the factory PCM (if modified) would respond better than having the ROE intercept and modify fuel and timing tables. Like I posted, DC Performance accomplished this with BAZ's set up but I have no insights into how complicated it was, what it costed BAZ from start to finish since I assume there was a lot of discovery trial & error involved (I prefer not to pay a tuner to "learn" on my set-up but to quickly and professionally tune based on intellectual capital they have developed as legitimate business endeavor), or how its has worked thereafter. Not that my VEC tune is bad or anything, but I'm anal about not having the best engine management for my specific application. I have the time to fiddle around with the software and from what I've read on the ability to program the various parameters, it should work just fine. I just don't desire to do all the discovery work when at this stage in the game the tuner community should have some commerical offierings (packaged SCT tunes) for us ROE crack-heads. Understand that no tune will be 100% correct out of the box (too many variables), but atleast a SCT tune that is in the ball park and gives us a stepping off point. I loved your special you were running last year and should have jumped on it at that time, but you know how priorities come and go with a family!! I just see a huge market for this product and was hoping someone had invested some R&D regarding ROE users.

 

[britospeed]

Roe supercharger, TT, paxton all can be done without any trouble with the SCT. The biggest hurdle with the SCT is that your not tuning live. Some time on a steady state dyno and proper logging equipment are needed to give a "factory" quality tune. A DIY'er could get the tune close with a lot of data logging. Then take it to a dyno for the final tweaks.

 

[EllowViper]

I was reading some of the other forums with folks that have the ability to "autotune" the fuel tables in their ECM through real-time data from a W/B feeding the data into the software and mapping the output back into the ECM thereby achieving the desired AFR. They also can simply input their fuel pressure, injector size, displacement, MAP and the software recalculates all their corresponding fuel tables from the stock settings. That would be pretty slick to be able to do with our PCM via SCT and a W/B. But alass not to be. We have to do the grunt trial and error method.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I guess that is my quandry. What "approach" is best for handling the abrupt swing in fueling & timing that a ROE gives you? My ROE with the 2.8 blower and .580-.600 lift solid roller cam goes from vacuum to 12+ PSI in the blink of an eye. I have to believe the factory PCM (if modified) would respond better than having the ROE intercept and modify fuel and timing tables. Like I posted, DC Performance accomplished this with BAZ's set up but I have no insights into how complicated it was, what it costed BAZ from start to finish since I assume there was a lot of discovery trial & error involved (I prefer not to pay a tuner to "learn" on my set-up but to quickly and professionally tune based on intellectual capital they have developed as legitimate business endeavor), or how its has worked thereafter. Not that my VEC tune is bad or anything, but I'm anal about not having the best engine management for my specific application. I have the time to fiddle around with the software and from what I've read on the ability to program the various parameters, it should work just fine. I just don't desire to do all the discovery work when at this stage in the game the tuner community should have some commerical offierings (packaged SCT tunes) for us ROE crack-heads. Understand that no tune will be 100% correct out of the box (too many variables), but atleast a SCT tune that is in the ball park and gives us a stepping off point. I loved your special you were running last year and should have jumped on it at that time, but you know how priorities come and go with a family!! I just see a huge market for this product and was hoping someone had invested some R&D regarding ROE users.

This is not the "swing" I was referring to. Abrupt changes in fueling are fine, so long as they are around a linear fueling model. I am talking about an abrupt oddity within the fueling model itself.

For example, you can have a point on some engines that require far more or far less fuel than would be expected at that point. They can be caused by resonation in the manifold, cam profiles, etc. If your engine build has severe issues like this, you will need a computer system with VERY high resolution to fix it, so that you can change a point, but not all of the other points around it. In the case of SCT on a boosted car, you dont have a lot of resolution, as you have a set number of cells [9] to handle your vacuum/boost range. That 9 then has to be divided by 2 bar rather than 1 bar, ending up with only 4.5 cells per bar. As long as the fuel curve is linear, that's fine. But if it is all over the place, you will end up with flat spots in the power band. Most cars wont have issues, but a few can get you chasing your tail.

 

[EllowViper]

Great explaination and clarification. Thanks Dan. I read a thread or two on resolution cells and it all makes sense based on what you have posted.

 

[vpower01]

Dan i bought an SCT from you and you did explain a bit but im still
a bit timid to do any tuning myself...didnt you say you might do some tutorial to help out on understanding the SCT for us that have no clue?
Sorry but i had to ask.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan i bought an SCT from you and you did explain a bit but im still
a bit timid to do any tuning myself...didnt you say you might do some tutorial to help out on understanding the SCT for us that have no clue?
Sorry but i had to ask.

Hello,

Yes, I have been slowly putting together that tutorial, and have posted it here:

http://forums.viperclub.org/tuning/633307-sct-pro-racer-how-thread.html

It is far from finished, but I have very little time these days to add to it. If you have any specific questions, just ask me directly in a PM, or in a NEW post in the Tuning section.

The JTEC is a very simple Narrow-Band controller, and I implore you guys who have PRP setups to do some research and fully understand *how* a Narrow Band controller works, BEFORE tuning, and BEFORE asking me questions about how to tune with SCT. Ask me questions about the JTEC based on your research first, and get a good grasp on how it works, then move on to the SCT software. Also make sure to skim the software and look at all of the section headings, titles, etc so that you know what parts I may talk about. I have tried to explain everything at once to a couple people, and they do not grasp the fundamentals of tuning with it, nor understand what parts of the program I am talking about, without having any base knowledge of the computer system and how it works first. All I end up doing is repeating the same conversation twice or more, after they have figured out "how" the controller operates after the first conversation. In reality, there are not many parts of the program you need to play with to tune a car, unless there are changes to injector size, Cams, Heads, etc. but knowing where and how to make those changes, makes all the difference.

 

[KenH]

Hello,

The JTEC is a very simple Narrow-Band controller, and I implore you guys who have PRP setups to do some research and fully understand *how* a Narrow Band controller works, BEFORE tuning, and BEFORE asking me questions about how to tune with SCT. Ask me questions about the JTEC based on your research first, and get a good grasp on how it works, then move on to the SCT software. .

Dan, any recommendations where to find this kind of information? I have been looking with no success.

 

[cyaford]

Besides a laptop, the Pro-Racer Software, and a wideband A/F reader, what else would be needed for someone to do their own tuning? What would be a good wideband to use? LM-2?

Thanks!

Ted

 

[plumcrazy]

man, i give you guys credit. im way to scared to tune my own car. i give all you guys props who do. just be safe and careful doing it.

i guess im too lazy and dont have the desire to learn it.

 

[EllowViper]

I've been reading and reading some other forums and posts on ECM/PCM reflashing withthe various tuner software out there for Ford, Chevy, Honda VTEC stuff. Pretty interesting. I think I could tune to me hearts desire if I can get "layman's" explainations of the various cells, scalers, and other sensor inputs and how they inter-relate within the specific PCM. Like most industries, the terminology and "logic" used by the automotive electronics industry to standardize terms and definitions is a bit overthetop.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

I would not no where to start..... Thats why Chris from DC Performance came over to the UK and sorted my Viper.....
More than happy with the outcome...

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan, any recommendations where to find this kind of information? I have been looking with no success.

There is some good info here:

Fuel injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fuel Trim Info - Ross-Tech Wiki

 

[Viper Specialty]

Besides a laptop, the Pro-Racer Software, and a wideband A/F reader, what else would be needed for someone to do their own tuning? What would be a good wideband to use? LM-2?

Thanks!

Ted

For MOST tuning, that would be fine. However, if you have major mods, OBD-2 PID scanning software would be a worthwhile investment to read your base fuel maps first, then tune your WOT enrichment wit the Wideband.

Wideband is not always a needed item, as most Dyno shops have it available for you to use, and you really need a Dyno for timing tuning during WOT. However, the OBD-2 software is a must, as very few dyno shops have it, and you dont want to waste all day paying for a dyno, when you could be doing it on the street instead.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I've been reading and reading some other forums and posts on ECM/PCM reflashing withthe various tuner software out there for Ford, Chevy, Honda VTEC stuff. Pretty interesting. I think I could tune to me hearts desire if I can get "layman's" explainations of the various cells, scalers, and other sensor inputs and how they inter-relate within the specific PCM. Like most industries, the terminology and "logic" used by the automotive electronics industry to standardize terms and definitions is a bit overthetop.

You are correct. Most items are "overcomplicated" in how they are labeled, and if you know what you are looking at, you can figure out how it works fairly easily. If you have any specific questions, ASK! Its easy enough for me or another member to explain what something specific is.

 

[cyaford]

Hey Dan. All I have are the usual bolt-ons(headers, full exhaust, smooth tubes, S&B filters). After having the Edelbrock headers put on, the car put down 460rwhp/500rwtq. A/F was 12.8. This was without the SCT, as it runs about a point or so higher. Since email tuning does not work for my car, I'd like to start tuning it myself. With just bolt-ons, would you still suggest I get the OBD 2 PID scanning software?

Thanks Dan.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hey Dan. All I have are the usual bolt-ons(headers, full exhaust, smooth tubes, S&B filters). After having the Edelbrock headers put on, the car put down 460rwhp/500rwtq. A/F was 12.8. This was without the SCT, as it runs about a point or so higher. Since email tuning does not work for my car, I'd like to start tuning it myself. With just bolt-ons, would you still suggest I get the OBD 2 PID scanning software?

Thanks Dan.

You probably wont need it. However, you *could* use it to clean up the tune if you have any bucking, surging, different injectors, etc. If it runs fine in Closed Loop, then dont bother.