Shell's response on 15/40 Rotella in Viper-Tom?

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

If he is right, then I'm willing to take the time to read the documentation showing proof of all that has been discussed. (engne wear, longivity, performance, protection etc.) And yes the warranty is an important issue for newer Viper owners as well as engine life and performance... *safe for engines and warranty is the issue. Anybody can say anything but without the documented research to prove it, the suggestions and theories don't mean beans. Show me the documented proven research on Viper engines that specifically reccomends 15/40 oil and I will be glad to review it and entertain you more.

You're *doubting* ZDDP works? Sorry, but no one will be able to help you if that's the case.

Of course, if Detroit put more effort into building better engines ZDDP poisoning of cats wouldn't be an issue, because very little oil would ever get into the combustion chamber in the first place.

Use thicker sleeves that don't distort as much.

Use harder material on the sleeves so they don't wear as quickly.

Hone the block with torque plates.

Use honed bronze valve guides that will last.

Those four things right there would reduce oil consumption, and the amount of oil that gets into the exhaust. Then you can run a little more ZDDP in the oil and it doesn't matter.

 

[sniper1]

You're *doubting* ZDDP works? Sorry, but no one will be able to help you if that's the case.

Of course, if Detroit put more effort into building better engines ZDDP poisoning of cats wouldn't be an issue, because very little oil would ever get into the combustion chamber in the first place.

Use thicker sleeves that don't distort as much.

Use harder material on the sleeves so they don't wear as quickly.

Hone the block with torque plates.

Use honed bronze valve guides that will last.

Those four things right there would reduce oil consumption, and the amount of oil that gets into the exhaust. Then you can run a little more ZDDP in the oil and it doesn't matter.

Greg, I'm not asking for anything more than documented proof of the use and effects of 15/40 in Viper and High performance Motorcycle engines as opposed to the reccomended oils. Thats it, not your zddp comments or your build a Bullet Proof engine bla bla, JUST THE FACTS! Thanks anyway...

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

You're doubting that one of the most well known and revered AW additives in oil history does nothing in a Viper?

No one can change your mind then. You are *choosing* to believe that.

Run what you want. I don't care.

 

[sniper1]

You're doubting that one of the most well known and revered AW additives in oil history does nothing in a Viper?

No one can change your mind then. You are *choosing* to believe that.

Run what you want. I don't care.

Thanks for your permission to run anything I want since you don't care
Now can we stick to the requested subject at hand?

 

[Darbgnik]

I don't understand the point of contention of warranty and whether Rotella is safe for cats.
How is oil gonna void anyones warranty, really? Something happens to your car, and you honestly believe they're gonna drain the oil, and check the amount of additives in it? Gimme a break! Besides, it says recommended, not mandatory.

And the part about Tom not specifying the issues, I'm sorry, but in every post about oil I've read, he's mentioned the adverse reaction(possibly) to the cats. I think anyone with half a brain can arm themselves with the facts he has given, then make an educated decision.

I for one am glad to have learned as much on the subject as I have. And I'll use any oil I like with impunity, fully doubting the possibility of a dealership caring to test the heritage of the oil in my engine. Sheesh!

With all the what-ifs in the world, it's a wonder anyone can sleep at night!

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Thanks for your permission to run anything I want since you don't care
Now can we stick to the requested subject at hand?

Low Volatility ZDDP Technology: Part 1~Engines and Lubricant Performance in Field Applications

Enlarge your mind. It'll cost you a few bucks tho'. I pointed you to SAE because they have good credentials.

 

[sniper1]

ENLARGING

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Oil Development for Nascar Racing

This one you might find more interesting than taxi cabs. It's about oil development for NASCAR.

I haven't read it. I already know what's in it. All I have to do is call Charlotte.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

This one's a freebie:

Anti-wear and friction reducers.


Friction Reducers and AW Additives - Bob Is The Oil Guy

It's from a site highly recommended to me by Tom.

(Hey, at least we should have fun disagreeing with one another around here)

 

[sniper1]

Oil Development for Nascar Racing

This one you might find more interesting than taxi cabs. It's about oil development for NASCAR.

I haven't read it. I already know what's in it. All I have to do is call Charlotte.

DO YOU NO SPEEKY ENGLISH?
I REQUIRE DOCCUMENTED PROOF OF VIPER ENGINES AND HIGH HP MOTORCYCLE ENGINES SHOWING THE RESULTS OF USING 15/40 AND RECCOMENDED USE OILS IN SIDE BY SIDE COMPARO IN EVERY TEST POSSIBLE SI ?

This one's a freebie:

Anti-wear and friction reducers.


Friction Reducers and AW Additives - Bob Is The Oil Guy

It's from a site highly recommended to me by Tom.

(Hey, at least we should have fun disagreeing with one another around here)

YO NO HABLA ENGLISH ? READ MY PREVIOUS POST OK THERE ENTHUSIAS

 

[Jerome Sparich]

When you become a member I might indulge you then.

Is that the best you can do?

i asked twice, nicely no less. Think that was easy for me to do? I should have just said you are a wind bag full of hot air, but I didn't.

Are you relater to PFR from over at at VA? He is a "know it all" too.

 

[sniper1]

Is that the best you can do?

i asked twice, nicely no less. Think that was easy for me to do? I should have just said you are a wind bag full of hot air, but I didn't.

Are you relater to PFR from overt at VA? He is a "know it all" too.

Careful Jeri enthusias, if you expect to keep posting here... I don't take kindly to insults !!!
mind your own business please.
btw, no money to become a real member or no Viper ? both I'm guessing

 

[plumcrazy]

When you become a member I might indulge you then.

ok, what are YOUR qualifications ?

 

[sniper1]

ok, what are YOUR qualifications ?

YOU TOO ?
How about answering my question of providing the documented proof of comparos of Viper engines and high performance motorcycle engines using 15/40 and reccomended oils in side by side test and STOP worring about *** is my qualifications are!

Lemmy know when you get that info and then we'll talk oky doky...

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

And on we go...

GR8 ASP, I see the issues similarly and don't think we are far apart. Perhaps it's that my comments tend to favor the user and yours tend to favor the OEM requirements. I'll try to be balanced in future commentary.

sniper1, a few questions for you:
1) what oil is recommended in your owner's manual? (viscosity and API rating?)
2) what oil do you use today? (viscosity and API rating)
3) how did you decide to use the oil in #2?

If you can't share the answers to #1, 2, and 3, then you aren't recognizing much of what has been discussed and we aren't having a constructive conversation. And I'll have to take back my $50/qt oil full engine warranty offer to you.

Also, I want to make sure you understand that the OEM issue with diesel oils is not the viscosity grade of SAE 15W-40 as you keep mentioning, but the level of an one additive in the formulation. There are SAE 5W-40 diesel engine oils and although hard to find, SAE 10W-30 diesel engine oils. Based on your comments you would use an SAE 10W-30 API SL engine oil, even if it additionally met the diesel criteria? Would you use the Mobil 1 0W-40 that is recommended in the newest Viper? (It has diesel performance.)

HSSSSS, the Mobil 0W-40 and a full diesel oil are getting close; the diesel oil probably has more dispersant to manage the soot levels reached in the big diesel engines. Unless you are going extended drain, the performance of either is very similar and is personal preference.

Greg, about $5 more of the precious metals in a catalyst would also take care of the "poisoning" problem. And actually, the catalyst doesn't suddenly stop working, the light-off temperature rises. That means it has to get hotter before the catalytic activity begins. Because the Federal Test Procedure for measuring emissions has a significant weighting on cold start, if the cat doesn't light off within seconds, it will "fail". So yes, a "fail" means 10 seconds of cold start unconverted emissions vs. a "pass" of only 3 seconds of cold start unconverted emissions.

Darbgnik, not that I want to screw a car company, but if you suspect the dealer would take an oil sample, just change the oil before going in. There isn't any reverse analysis of the used catalyst that would say the oil used had "too high" ZDDP and instead the conclusion would be "high oil consumption." Arguably an oil with more ZDDP would show less engine wear, therefore have lower oil consumption, and have less chance to affect the catalyst... a circular chicken-egg argument.

 

[Viperless]

Careful Jeri enthusias, if you expect to keep posting here... I don't take kindly to insults !!!
mind your own business please.
btw, no money to become a real member or no Viper ? both I'm guessing

No one EXPECTS you to keep posting here and I think we'd all be very happy if you stopped.

 

[sniper1]

And on we go...

GR8 ASP, I see the issues similarly and don't think we are far apart. Perhaps it's that my comments tend to favor the user and yours tend to favor the OEM requirements. I'll try to be balanced in future commentary.

sniper1, a few questions for you:
1) what oil is recommended in your owner's manual? (viscosity and API rating?)
2) what oil do you use today? (viscosity and API rating)
3) how did you decide to use the oil in #2?

If you can't share the answers to #1, 2, and 3, then you aren't recognizing much of what has been discussed and we aren't having a constructive conversation. And I'll have to take back my $50/qt oil full engine warranty offer to you.

Also, I want to make sure you understand that the OEM issue with diesel oils is not the viscosity grade of SAE 15W-40 as you keep mentioning, but the level of an one additive in the formulation. There are SAE 5W-40 diesel engine oils and although hard to find, SAE 10W-30 diesel engine oils. Based on your comments you would use an SAE 10W-30 API SL engine oil, even if it additionally met the diesel criteria? Would you use the Mobil 1 0W-40 that is recommended in the newest Viper? (It has diesel performance.)

Still waiting

HSSSSS, the Mobil 0W-40 and a full diesel oil are getting close; the diesel oil probably has more dispersant to manage the soot levels reached in the big diesel engines. Unless you are going extended drain, the performance of either is very similar and is personal preference.

Greg, about $5 more of the precious metals in a catalyst would also take care of the "poisoning" problem. And actually, the catalyst doesn't suddenly stop working, the light-off temperature rises. That means it has to get hotter before the catalytic activity begins. Because the Federal Test Procedure for measuring emissions has a significant weighting on cold start, if the cat doesn't light off within seconds, it will "fail". So yes, a "fail" means 10 seconds of cold start unconverted emissions vs. a "pass" of only 3 seconds of cold start unconverted emissions.

Darbgnik, not that I want to screw a car company, but if you suspect the dealer would take an oil sample, just change the oil before going in. There isn't any reverse analysis of the used catalyst that would say the oil used had "too high" ZDDP and instead the conclusion would be "high oil consumption." Arguably an oil with more ZDDP would show less engine wear, therefore have lower oil consumption, and have less chance to affect the catalyst... a circular chicken-egg argument.

No one EXPECTS you to keep posting here and I think we'd all be very happy if you stopped.

WE ALL ? I didn't know you were the VCA Forum Mouthpeice
Thanks for letting me know LESS

I just hope this thread dies soon so people can relax about the proper oil issue since it all comes down to one thing, PERSONAL PREFERENCE !

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

WE ALL ? I didn't know you were the VCA Forum Mouthpeice
Thanks for letting me know LESS

I just hope this thread dies soon so people can relax about the proper oil issue since it all comes down to one thing, PERSONAL PREFERENCE !

I guess that means you can't find your owner's manual? Anybody else got one?

Man, if I had only known about that personal preference thing sooner...

 

[Viperless]

WE ALL ? I didn't know you were the VCA Forum Mouthpeice
Thanks for letting me know LESS

I just hope this thread dies soon so people can relax about the proper oil issue since it all comes down to one thing, PERSONAL PREFERENCE !

I'm no more the VCA Forum Mouthpiece than you are the VCA Forum Oil Thread Monitor. Perhaps this thread would die soon if you quit crapping all over it!

How about you take your own advice and RELAX!

 

[sniper1]

I guess that means you can't find your owner's manual? Anybody else got one?

Man, if I had only known about that personal preference thing sooner...

Maybe or maybe not, good way to avoid my question though...
Your welcome for the preference advice, anytime

I'm no more the VCA Forum Mouthpiece than you are the VCA Forum Oil Thread Monitor. Perhaps this thread would die soon if you quit crapping all over it!

How about you take your own advice and RELAX!

Ditto mr. less, go crap somewhere else, but relax first k.


I hope its dead now

 

[viperdrummer]

Ok, I started it and it was healthy for the most part (I got real tired of the icons, however) On to other topics.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Your welcome for the preference advice, anytime

Please see item #2, asking for what oil you use.

 

[sniper1]

Ok, I started it and it was healthy for the most part (I got real tired of the icons, however) On to other topics.

Please see item #2, asking for what oil you use.

tommy; can you please respect viperdrummer's request? I'm done here, on to other topics now... Good food for thought about egine lubricants though.
enjoy your day.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

OK, Dally.

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Careful Jeri enthusias, if you expect to keep posting here... I don't take kindly to insults !!!
mind your own business please.
btw, no money to become a real member or no Viper ? both I'm guessing

You threatening with getting me banned from here? Which Mod are you crying to? Just for what reason, asking a simple question of you?

You are a bigger wind bag then a thought. Can you be any more lame with your replies? Opps....an insult.

I had a nice long reply for you, but the board keeps kicking and screaming when I type too fast.

Back to counting my pennies so I can buy a 13 year old car and be a big man like Sniper.

 

[Darbgnik]

And on we go...



Darbgnik, not that I want to screw a car company, but if you suspect the dealer would take an oil sample, just change the oil before going in. There isn't any reverse analysis of the used catalyst that would say the oil used had "too high" ZDDP and instead the conclusion would be "high oil consumption." Arguably an oil with more ZDDP would show less engine wear, therefore have lower oil consumption, and have less chance to affect the catalyst... a circular chicken-egg argument.

I wasn't suggesting to fear them sampling my oil, to the contrary, I was pointing out the whole voided warranty thing based on oil type to be a silly argument. Would never happen in my humble opinion.

 

[sniper1]

You threatening with getting me banned from here? Which Mod are you crying to? Just for what reason, asking a simple question of you?

You are a bigger wind bag then a thought. Can you be any more lame with your replies? Opps....an insult.

I had a nice long reply for you, but the board keeps kicking and screaming when I type too fast.

Back to counting my pennies so I can buy a 13 year old car and be a big man like Sniper.

We're done with this thread little boy so go get into your pinto and go flip burgers till you grow up.
pm sent !!!

 

[SingleMalt]

Sniper. Give us a rest please.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and tell us what you find. We'd be interested to hear that, not your endless circular questioning.

Thanks.

 

[eucharistos]

thanks tom, greg, fb, x-m, HSSSS, et al

but if someone uses the wrong oil and "contaminates" their engine so it needs a good cleaning of deposits, etc,

a bottle of engine scrub is all they need

You must be registered for see images attach

from their website:

Is the inside of your motor dirty? Most likely! Some people will tell you the only way to clean your motor is to tear it down and rebuild it. This is no good!!! KaleCoAuto internals cleaner is a special combination of iron, graphite, and copper shrapnel of assorted sizes that work to sand and polish the inside of your motor! Add 2oz per quart of oil in your car. New engine clean shrapnel should be used at every oil change! Bottle includes pouring mechanism. Comes in 16oz packages. Do not injest. Contact a physician immediately if injested, do not induce vomiting.

 

[sniper1]

Sniper. Give us a rest please.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and tell us what you find. We'd be interested to hear that, not your endless circular questioning.

Thanks.

I have and did so thanks for representing the WE group there singlemelt... can we drop it now ?