So, SVS no longer available, and I also thought I read that the MGW shifter is not available for the Gen II...is that correct. If so, that leaves the B&M and the Hurst. By the way, didn't notice anyone mention the Hurst shifter...is that because nobody likes it?
Shifter Knob and Short Throw Shifter...
- Thread starter costanZo
- Start date
They are short throw shifters. That means they are designed to shorten the travel between gears. Some confuse this with a shorter shaft which actually increases effort (shorter lever).
Also aftermarket shifters have a tighter centering spring to keep you inline for the 2/3 and 3/4 shift. My current stock shifter is very loose so it causes problems if I go to fast (3rd is messed up now). You test this by pushing the shifter left or right, if it is very easy then it is not good, it should be tight and snap back quickly.
Shifter knob change is only personal feel/comfort.
costanZo
Enthusiast
I was also wondering about the Hurst. I remember last year or at least a couple years back I skimmed over some threads on here talking about short throw shifters. I remember people talking about the Hurst being the best. Unless that's changed, I have no idea. However, according to JonB it seems he only sells B&M and is not a fan of Hurst. Considering how much experience Jon has, and the fact no one is mentioning Hurst at all...seems to make the decision for me pretty simple, and just go with the B&M Short Throw through Jon.
costanZo
Enthusiast
So does this mean, the gearbox will be completely changed throughout? Meaning, when you shift now.. it won't be so rough, and every shift will now be smooth, and as you put it.. the distance you actually have to push the shifter from one gear to another will be shorter, hence it's "short throw"...? Sorry, if this question seems really stupid lol, this whole topic is new to me so I want to make 100% sure before I do the swap.
Also, you say shifter knob is personal feel, but isn't it almost necessary to have a smaller shifter for quicker throws? Or does size of the shifter knob not matter? It almost seems like everyone who does the B&M, SVS or any kind of short throw has a MGW shift knob or some kind of smaller shifter compared to stock...
So does this mean, the gearbox will be completely changed throughout? Meaning, when you shift now.. it won't be so rough, and every shift will now be smooth, and as you put it.. the distance you actually have to push the shifter from one gear to another will be shorter, hence it's "short throw"...? Sorry, if this question seems really stupid lol, this whole topic is new to me so I want to make 100% sure before I do the swap.
Also, you say shifter knob is personal feel, but isn't it almost necessary to have a smaller shifter for quicker throws? Or does size of the shifter knob not matter? It almost seems like everyone who does the B&M, SVS or any kind of short throw has a MGW shift knob or some kind of smaller shifter compared to stock...
The transmission is not changed at all, it is just the mechanics of the shifter that connect to the trans that allow for a little quicker shift. It will not make shifts more smooth, that all has to do with the transmission and length of your shaft. A shorter shaft will feel much more notchy than a longer one.
I also don't know if Hurst would be better out of the aftermarket shifters, but FWIW I had one on my TransAm and it was better than stock viper shifter.
Shift knob does not need to be smaller, depends how big your hands are I guess. I have driven without a shift knob and it was not comfortable.
I know that Chuck has experience with Hurst, though don't know how much. We were talking about shifters because he had a Hurst one on his shelf.
So, was I correct that MGW no longer makes a shifter mechanism for the Gen II's? That is why everyone is talking about B&M and not making the comparison to MGW.
Right now, I have the same issues with 3rd to 4th and 4th to 3rd as many of you. Yes, I know the whole thing about how to hold the shifter to make the shift correctly, but honestly, if the shifter did what it was supposed to do, that wouldn't be necessary. I don't ever recall missing shifts in any of my Vettes!
So, was I correct that MGW no longer makes a shifter mechanism for the Gen II's? That is why everyone is talking about B&M and not making the comparison to MGW.
Right now, I have the same issues with 3rd to 4th and 4th to 3rd as many of you. Yes, I know the whole thing about how to hold the shifter to make the shift correctly, but honestly, if the shifter did what it was supposed to do, that wouldn't be necessary. I don't ever recall missing shifts in any of my Vettes!
Viperviking
Viper Owner
Hurst + MGW..great combination for me..looks "high tech" installed in the car together with all the other MGW accessories
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
I have a short throw shifter on my Gen 2 GTS, Trouble is I dont know who's it is? The shifter is unsprung, meaning when the car is in Neutral you can push the shifter left or right and it will just stay in that position?
To be honest I have got used to it. I have had times when I have missed several shifts and have almost been Snake bitten on more than one occasion going from the top of 3rd fast shifting and hitting the dreaded 2nd instead of 4th
I read a great deal about how to hold the shifter and also read the threads about changing the Transmission mounts and Engine mounts which people say helps
Well for the record I have changed all three OEM mounts to the Woodhouse performance mounts, but I still get it wrong sometimes And this is coming from a European driver who has grown up using manual transmissions
I have now just got hold of a brand new Hurst Shifter and am going to install this one when I get some free time I think the real problem is the gate on the 6 speed box itself, I personally think its bloody dangerous and have even been thinking of going a very radical route and getting rid of the gearbox and installing a quaife sequential, but its a hell of a lot of money, and cash is lacking at the moment
To be honest I have got used to it. I have had times when I have missed several shifts and have almost been Snake bitten on more than one occasion going from the top of 3rd fast shifting and hitting the dreaded 2nd instead of 4th
I read a great deal about how to hold the shifter and also read the threads about changing the Transmission mounts and Engine mounts which people say helps
Well for the record I have changed all three OEM mounts to the Woodhouse performance mounts, but I still get it wrong sometimes
And this is coming from a European driver who has grown up using manual transmissions I have now just got hold of a brand new Hurst Shifter and am going to install this one when I get some free time
I think the real problem is the gate on the 6 speed box itself, I personally think its bloody dangerous and have even been thinking of going a very radical route and getting rid of the gearbox and installing a quaife sequential, but its a hell of a lot of money, and cash is lacking at the moment Correct SVS went ***** and MGW never made a GenII Short Throw Shifter. They produce the Short Throw Shifter for GenIII & IV.
However, if I read JonB's post correctly, it seems that the MGW GenIII/IV Short Throw Shifter can work in the GenII if we take a hammer ashtray area.
Corrcetamudo Seenyore Tony
The under-console area of the Gen 1-2 ashtray interferes...otherwise MGW is a great shifter for that trans too...
costanZo
Enthusiast
Customizing the MGW to fit in the GEN II seems like too much work and possibly extra money.. either way, B&M should be fine for me.
Not to make this an unnecessarily long discussion, but has anyone had experience with the Hurst in a Gen II? I'd like to hear a comparison of the Hurst to B&M, but realize the Jon sells the B&M which is a testiment in and of itself.
Hurst write-up for Dodge Viper:
BILLET/PLUS 5 & 6-SPEED
Hurst Billet/Plus Shifters incorporate a high ratio pivot mechanism for reduced shifter throw and are sturdily constructed for a more positive precise feel when shifting. Billet base allows for a stronger, more durable mechanism. Dedicated applications assure a custom fit and eliminate any vehicle modifications for ease of installation.
• CNC machined 6061 T-6 BILLET ALUMINUM base and stop collar
• Heat treated BILLET STEEL gear selector for ultimate strength
• High strength steel stick. NOT A CASTING!
• Stainless steel rotating pivot insures smooth shifting and reduced wear
• Polymide pivot cup reduces stick vibration and noise transfer
• Self centering alignment for improved 2nd to 3rd upshift gear changes
• Patented adjustable bias spring load for ease of operation
• Exclusive oil control seal, on most models, to eliminate trans fluid loss and protect against contamination
Cost is $314.
Still difficult to invest without having some assessments from members.
Hurst write-up for Dodge Viper:
BILLET/PLUS 5 & 6-SPEED
Hurst Billet/Plus Shifters incorporate a high ratio pivot mechanism for reduced shifter throw and are sturdily constructed for a more positive precise feel when shifting. Billet base allows for a stronger, more durable mechanism. Dedicated applications assure a custom fit and eliminate any vehicle modifications for ease of installation.
• CNC machined 6061 T-6 BILLET ALUMINUM base and stop collar
• Heat treated BILLET STEEL gear selector for ultimate strength
• High strength steel stick. NOT A CASTING!
• Stainless steel rotating pivot insures smooth shifting and reduced wear
• Polymide pivot cup reduces stick vibration and noise transfer
• Self centering alignment for improved 2nd to 3rd upshift gear changes
• Patented adjustable bias spring load for ease of operation
• Exclusive oil control seal, on most models, to eliminate trans fluid loss and protect against contamination
Cost is $314.
Still difficult to invest without having some assessments from members.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
I will take some pics of the Hurst shifter (which is still in the box) later today and post them up for you to see. I am giving rides for Charity all day at the Top Gear track on May 14th, so I will try and get the shifter installed for then and let you guys know my thoughts
+1, TWO completely Separate items: ShortThrowShifter, & ShortKnob/Shaft
Many people dont Get how a ShortThrowShifter works untill you show them the actual mechanics behind it that cause the length your hand has to move from one gear to the next to be lessened.
Its All in the fulcrum/pivot point. Moving the pivot point up and down allows the bottom end of the lever that actually moves the gearbox to move the same distance while adjusting the distance of the "throw" up top to your hand.
You must be registered for see images attach
A short shift knob or short shaft minimaly effects the throw of the shift while increasing the effort.
The FirstStrike Knob and any other rock hard knob are not optimal in my opinion as they allow a sweaty hand to slip off if your tearing though the gears. Also they look cheap like a Pep-boys add-on and dont match the interior.
The MGW Gripper is an improvement but my Fav pick is the stock knob from a 99-up viper. It has the most function which is why team viper stuck with it through the Gen3.
I think this knob paired with practically Any shortthrowshifter would be a Money combination. I currently have the B&M and 99-up knob and love it.
costanZo
Enthusiast
Dom,
Can you post a picture of the stock 99 Knob? I'm actually leaving work right now so I don't have time to do a search..
Thanks man!
Can you post a picture of the stock 99 Knob? I'm actually leaving work right now so I don't have time to do a search..
Thanks man!
costanZo
Enthusiast
By the way Dom... have you ever seen one of these knobs(in picture below) used on a Viper before from MGW? I was considering the MGW Gripper, and it seems like one of these would compare more to that than the first strike shifter... I think the blue one would go great in my car, or maybe even an all black one with blue accents if they make it 
This is totally bogus info on the First Strike knob. I'm not sure if you have ever driven a car with the First Strike knob installed but I have. It has a finger groove that is designed to PREVENT your hand from slipping off it. It has a much more secure grip than a simple ball design. You'd have to be the most uncoordinate goof to ever drive a Viper to have your hand slipping off the First Strike knob. I have one and I use it. My hand has NEVER come close to slipping off it.
I'd hate for noobs to see your post and shy away from the First Strike based on inaccurate info.
RedSnake. That is MyOpinion. I am well aware that many viper owners like it. Some simply due to the fact that back in the day it was the only one available. And had a Cool Gimicky name(FirstStrike). To me it looks like a cheap Pep-boys ad-on.
costanZo
Enthusiast
The blue one is def nice... If I got anything, I'd like it to be blue and black to match my inteior.. preferably more black with blue accents... how much do those stock ones go for that you just sent pictures too?
No. Prob, here it is in Blue(rare) I know you want one...
You must be registered for see images
and black
costanZo
Enthusiast
Besides MGW... I haven't seen any companies that custom make Shifters to blend with your interior.. I would think everyone would want one... I'm surprised no one does it.. I might hit up Venzano to see if he could customize one go go with my interior he did!
I might hit up Venzano to see if he could customize one go go with my interior he did!Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Ok Chaps, have taken some pictures of my current shifter and the new Hurst shifter.......
Current shifter? Please chime in if you know who makes this?
Height 4 inches, I know, I know its a small one
Pulled over to the 1st and 2nd gear position, as you can see the shifter is not sprung and it will stay where ever you put it!
Close up shot of Sneaky Pete Knob
The new package
So upon opening the box I find this
A Brown paper shifter Hows that work!
Dug a bit deeper....Phew
Good Detailed instructions
Shifter with Knob attached
Well it all looks very nice, I guess we will have to see what its like in action
The Hurst shifter is sprung both ways so when you release the shifter it will return to a central position.
Oh and if your wondering what the black and red wire is all about there is a small switch on the end of it which I can flick while driving, it operates the rear view camera so I can see where those Yellow owners are lurking
Current shifter? Please chime in if you know who makes this?
You must be registered for see images
Height 4 inches, I know, I know its a small one
Pulled over to the 1st and 2nd gear position, as you can see the shifter is not sprung and it will stay where ever you put it!
You must be registered for see images
Close up shot of Sneaky Pete Knob
You must be registered for see images
The new package
You must be registered for see images
So upon opening the box I find this
A Brown paper shifter Hows that work!
You must be registered for see images
Dug a bit deeper....Phew
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Good Detailed instructions
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Shifter with Knob attached
You must be registered for see images
Well it all looks very nice, I guess we will have to see what its like in action
The Hurst shifter is sprung both ways so when you release the shifter it will return to a central position.
Oh and if your wondering what the black and red wire is all about there is a small switch on the end of it which I can flick while driving, it operates the rear view camera so I can see where those Yellow owners are lurking
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AZTVR
Enthusiast
I have had both. The B&M is now in the car and the Hurst is in a box to be sold sometime. The Hurst was a worthwhile step up from the stock shifter for sure. I just wanted to see if the B&M gave any better feel to shifting the transmission. I really wanted to try the MGW unit but didn't want to do the necessary modification to the tunnel.
I was initially disappointed in the B&M that I got, in that the centering action, pushing the shifter away from the 1-2 throw, wasn't as strong as I wanted. I don't believe that it was as strong as the Hurst.
I found and modified a spring from Ace Hardware that was stronger than the stock one and put that in. I believe that the B&M now feels pretty much the same as the Hurst to me.
In my opinion, the reasons one would choose one over the other is availability, price, and the shift lever configuration. The advantage of the B&M is that you could possibly change out the vertical shift lever/rod to get the specific height you want. The rod is easily removable. The Hurst is a fixed height.
costanZo
Enthusiast
My roommate showed me a site tonight for custom shift knobs that I guess you can have customized anyway you want for your car.
I'm sure there are plenty of sites out there for building custom shift knobs anyway, but this company is called WC Lathe Werks. They are Hand-Crafted in The USA too.
I'm not really seeing anything I'd like to blend with my interior though from their site. So I'll most likely call MGW for one of the custom Viper Ball knobs with Sneaky Pete logo, buy the stock 99 knob or call up Venzano and see if he can customize me one.
I'm sure there are plenty of sites out there for building custom shift knobs anyway, but this company is called WC Lathe Werks. They are Hand-Crafted in The USA too.
I'm not really seeing anything I'd like to blend with my interior though from their site. So I'll most likely call MGW for one of the custom Viper Ball knobs with Sneaky Pete logo, buy the stock 99 knob or call up Venzano and see if he can customize me one.
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banton
Viper Owner
That is the same set-up I had installed over 3 years ago and really like it. I went with the SVS version that shortend the shaft 1" and it was perfect for me. I think the shorter shaft would be too low for my comfort.
