SIGHTING... street race, GTS on I-95, Palm Beach

[zorroespanol]

I saw today saturday a black GTS florida tag "VENOM1" or "1VENOM" getting his ass handed on a platter by a black Nissan 350Z!!! they raced 3 times, and the Z won all of them.

This GTS had at least exhaust, since the tips were not exhaust...

Anyone here??

 

[wastntim]

Who's going to want to admit to this?

 

[zorroespanol]

well i figured that by posting the tag the victim would come forward...

Plus, no shame on losing to a modded ricer. On my old '94 RT/10 I once raced a white stock-looking Mazda Miata, that beat me by so much that it seemed that I was going in reverse!!!

I later learned about that car that had a RX-7 engine installed, heavily modded...

 

[Kevin D]

The 350Z must had a fully built motor with a high dollar turbo system on top of that (basically the owner invested as much money as the car is worth into it)...even then it would need to be well tuned to beat a stock Viper GTS. 350Z's (even modded ones) are weak as sh*T. I've raced too many to count, included twin turbo ones and easily smoke them each time. I have a 97' GTS with only exhaust*

 

[kcobean]

The 350Z must had a fully built motor with a high dollar turbo system on top of that (basically the owner invested as much money as the car is worth into it)...even then it would need to be well tuned to beat a stock Viper GTS. 350Z's (even modded ones) are weak as sh*T. I've raced too many to count, included twin turbo ones and easily smoke them each time. I have a 97' GTS with only exhaust*

You must be racing some bad drivers then. My Z dyno'd 410 WHP with a single-turbo tuned to just 9 PSI. While I might not have beaten a Viper with it, it would be damn close. A TT (they're about 10-12K installed, so "high dollar" is relative) pushing 430-450 (which is easy power) will hold its' own with anyone who knows how to drive the car worth a darn.

 

[ASKYOURWIFE]

Kcobean...

i have to disagree with you man...

yes their are some guys that get close to 450 rwhp on the stock block 350z's...But the engine/trannie dosent last long whats so ever..

even your 410 rwhp TT setup is on the high side..

330-370 is average for a supercharger set up...while 370-410 is average for a TT set up...

While I do agree that a 3350-3450 pound 350Z with 9 pounds of boost pressin 385-415 rwhp to the rear whells can defiently give a stock 3380-3450 pound gen 2 viper with 400-420 rwhp a good run for it's money...

The fact is that every gen 2 that you will see is pushing a MINIMUM of 400 rwhp..Mine was 410 rwhp bone stock and with just smooth tubes and no cats is 428 rwhp..

The TT 350Z on the other hand could easily be running 7 pounds and have 375 rwhp. Or gettin close to the limit with 9 pounds and 420 rwhp.

I frequent the my350z boards daily and see a LOT more 390 rwhp TT 350Z's than 450 rwhp 350Z's. Simply because the trannie has proven that mid 400's is just too much and most guys dont wanna take the risk so they settle for around 400 rwhp ( wich is still a solid 165 rwhp better than the 235 rwhp they put down stock.

For a 350Z to EASILY pull on a stock GTS it needs a minimum of 465 rwhp. Especially considering even the TT set ups seem to have a hard time even trapping 120 mph ( some quite a few stock GTS's have done)

 

[big-n-italian]

(looks like we have a new moderator - congrats bean!)

 

[zorroespanol]

Sorry but that's not right.

My brother has a 350Z with a Jim wolf TT setup on an otherwise stock engine, that dynoed 436rwhp, 9psi.

total setup installed at Japtrix was around 8K, but that included a new clutch, springs, etc...

Now I can't attest to the driving skills of either driver this time (I was on my CLS) but the possibility is definitely there. BTW, how much does a stock GTS dyno?? has to be in the high 300's?? my guess here, I am sure someone will chip in with the answer.

 

[hemibeep]

Wasn't me! I always think it comes down to the driver.
I have had my car for several years and still am a rookie at launches on the street. Usually.....when someone makes a sports car into a big hitter (big mods and $) they REALLY spend a lot of time and attempts dusting off more popular hot rods. All of their races makes them more familiar and usually more kills.

So if this 350 pulled up to me, and we were close to equal in power, he would get the win...I just don't have that many street races under my belt (actually NONE)

 

[GR8_ASP]

BTW, how much does a stock GTS dyno?? has to be in the high 300's?? my guess here, I am sure someone will chip in with the answer.

He said it above. Between 400 and 410 RWHP (on a Dynojet) completely stock.

 

[zorroespanol]

BTW, how much does a stock GTS dyno?? has to be in the high 300's?? my guess here, I am sure someone will chip in with the answer.

He said it above. Between 400 and 410 RWHP (on a Dynojet) completely stock.

Sorry.

Another point I forgot to mentiom, those 436 rwhp I mentioned up there were on a mustang dyno...

So anyway... victim remains unknown?

 

[kcobean]

Kcobean...

i have to disagree with you man...

yes their are some guys that get close to 450 rwhp on the stock block 350z's...But the engine/trannie dosent last long whats so ever..

even your 410 rwhp TT setup is on the high side..

330-370 is average for a supercharger set up...while 370-410 is average for a TT set up...

While I do agree that a 3350-3450 pound 350Z with 9 pounds of boost pressin 385-415 rwhp to the rear whells can defiently give a stock 3380-3450 pound gen 2 viper with 400-420 rwhp a good run for it's money...

The fact is that every gen 2 that you will see is pushing a MINIMUM of 400 rwhp..Mine was 410 rwhp bone stock and with just smooth tubes and no cats is 428 rwhp..

The TT 350Z on the other hand could easily be running 7 pounds and have 375 rwhp. Or gettin close to the limit with 9 pounds and 420 rwhp.

I frequent the my350z boards daily and see a LOT more 390 rwhp TT 350Z's than 450 rwhp 350Z's. Simply because the trannie has proven that mid 400's is just too much and most guys dont wanna take the risk so they settle for around 400 rwhp ( wich is still a solid 165 rwhp better than the 235 rwhp they put down stock.

For a 350Z to EASILY pull on a stock GTS it needs a minimum of 465 rwhp. Especially considering even the TT set ups seem to have a hard time even trapping 120 mph ( some quite a few stock GTS's have done)

If you frequent my350z.com, you may recognize my username from over there, I am one of the moderators there. You're right that most people tend to run high 300's as that's a pretty safe zone for the cast pistons and rods. But 400-425 WHP with a good, safe tune is doable, though longevity becomes a variable at that point. The tranny is not the weak link in the 350Z. There are people who push 420+ on the stock block with a good, safe tune and have been running that way for some time. My AFR was a perfect 11.2 across the board, so I probably could have run a bit more boost and been ok. My point in all of this is that a TT with a good tune pushing comparable power to a stock or relatively stock GTS, it's going to be a drivers race.

 

[kcobean]

(looks like we have a new moderator - congrats bean!)

Thank you sir!

 

[Roysviper]

My bone stock 1997 GTS dynoed 423h.p and 460 lb torque at the Power Tour.It runs 12.19 1/4mi and 7.70s 1/8th mi and with the 3.07 gears and the factory street tires.

All the RT-10 Vipers prior to 1997 were V-10 400 h.p.Stock for stock RT-10 to a 1996 and up GTS whick is a 450 h.p. is no race comparison at all. The RT-10 usuall runs low 13s 1/4 mi.

NOW so what if that datson or neson or whatever beat the Viper in a street race. If one pulled up beside me I wouldn't give him the time of day or the pleasure of him thinking that he could run with me, and I don't street race I race at the track....Now also alot of young kids think the Viper may have been racing them when in fact the Viper wasn't even gettin down at all and just wanted the Nissan to go away.

The bottom line is the time slips at the track.If the brand X car runs faster then say 12.19more power to him, but that would be an exception to the rule....

Now I also do own a 2006 RSI TWIN TURBO VIPER SRT-10 that runs hign 9s 1/4 mi with the 3.07 gears it came with and the street tires it came with.It will do 0-60 in 2.9 and top out at 215 mph. I wouldn't EVER street race anyone, not even a VW...TAKE IT TO THE TRACK and compare timeslips, then talk smack....and then so what....there is always a car faster out there...thats hot rodding.....BE SAFE...

.....

 

[plumcrazy]

i know another viperowner who got beat by a guy in a 350Z with just a few bolt ons and the Z had some work. not crazy but some. he said it was close but he got pulled.

there are TONS of cars (ricers included) who will hand a basic bolt on viper its *** on the street. especially if the viper owner doesnt pay attention......dont be so sure of yourselves

 

[Warfang]

It's just a car... the only thing worth beating on the street or track is yourself. Improve your own time and skills. The machine doesn't matter.

 

[Flash Gordon]

[there are TONS of cars (ricers included) who will hand a basic bolt on viper its *** on the street. especially if the viper owner doesnt pay attention......dont be so sure of yourselves[/quote]

Says the man who's DLM car is otw...

 

[tbsviper]

I wouldn't EVER street race anyone, not even a VW...TAKE IT TO THE TRACK and compare timeslips, then talk smack....and then so what....there is always a car faster out there...thats hot rodding.....BE SAFE...

.....

Agree with your sentiments. Why glorify street racing? Doesn't anyone get sick of reading about innocent people getting hurt or killed in the process like the state congressman we heard about recently? Street racing has always been around but perhaps the instant communications provided by the internet has resulted in much more of it. Just my .02

 

[EllowViper]

Yet another keyboard HP debate...who cares. Focus on the torque that's getting things moving. Incredible with all this "knowledge" espoused on the various forums that people remain enamorated with uncontested HP debates. It's meaningless without knowing the rest of the equation.

 

[The Great One]

i know another viperowner who got beat by a guy in a 350Z with just a few bolt ons and the Z had some work. not crazy but some. he said it was close but he got pulled.

there are TONS of cars (ricers included) who will hand a basic bolt on viper its *** on the street. especially if the viper owner doesnt pay attention......dont be so sure of yourselves

Cough Cough Charlie Cough Cough

 

[99 R/T 10]

Cough Cough Cough Cough *year old thread* Cough Cough Cough Cough

 

[RTTTTed]

A 350Z compared to an older Viper? I wonder where he found the traction to keep up to the monster tired Viper? The 350Z's come with similar size tires like a Stealth, and they're about 7" wide? Stealth R/T TT's came with AWD so I might expect one of them to be close, but not a 2 wheel drive. Don't the 350z's sell for about the same price or more than a Viper? Then spend another couple ten thousand dollar bills to try and keep up to a Viper? Why not race an older 93-95 stealth R/T TT? Nisan 285hp -Dodge Stealth 320hp. Put stock Euro/*** turbos on a R/T and they make 360hp ... then start some mods like cats and exhaust, bump the boost up to 15psi with the stock Euro Turbos and build over 430hp. Of course there are TD04 16G Turbos, headers, etc. and then the AWHP is over 500. Ummmm, oh yah, someone was talking about modded Nissans.

My modified 440 Duster will also beat a stock Viper, but NONE of the aforementioned cars are spit compared to my MODIFIED Viper.

Apples and Oranges. You wish.

Ted

 

[kcobean]

A 350Z compared to an older Viper? I wonder where he found the traction to keep up to the monster tired Viper? The 350Z's come with similar size tires like a Stealth, and they're about 7" wide? Stealth R/T TT's came with AWD so I might expect one of them to be close, but not a 2 wheel drive. Don't the 350z's sell for about the same price or more than a Viper? Then spend another couple ten thousand dollar bills to try and keep up to a Viper? Why not race an older 93-95 stealth R/T TT? Nisan 285hp -Dodge Stealth 320hp. Put stock Euro/*** turbos on a R/T and they make 360hp ... then start some mods like cats and exhaust, bump the boost up to 15psi with the stock Euro Turbos and build over 430hp. Of course there are TD04 16G Turbos, headers, etc. and then the AWHP is over 500. Ummmm, oh yah, someone was talking about modded Nissans.

My modified 440 Duster will also beat a stock Viper, but NONE of the aforementioned cars are spit compared to my MODIFIED Viper.

Apples and Oranges. You wish.

Ted

My 350z was putting down about 410 WHP and had 285's on the rear (10" wide). I'm sure it would keep up with my Viper because of the weight difference, particularly from a roll.

You can buy a Z for around 28K. Spend 15K on a turbo setup and fuel system upgrade and you're good to go up to around 420 WHP on a stock block for low $40's. Yes, you can buy a Viper for that, but it comes down to personal preference. A 410 WHP Z is a heck of a lot of fun, and some folks just love the import scene. Nothing wrong with it.

If you want to talk apples to apples, the stock Z is a 3.5L V6. It's entitled to a power adder (or two) to make it the same fruit as an 8.0L V10.

 

[MTGTS]

I sold my built motor TT Z for my Viper. No regrets here.

 

[viperchick12]

Another fair warning for those of you who don't want to get out run by something that should "never out run them"...

STAY CLEAR OF DIESELS... (even older, beat up 4wd models) - I personally know of 3 daily driven 4wd drive trucks in my little Southwest GA town that run low 11's in the 1/4 and you would have no idea by looking at these trucks...

Luckily for me my husband drives one of them and he helped build the other two so I pretty much know who to stay clear off... and of course I added a blower for safety measures - Now the only diesel they have that can get me is the race truck (which is technically street legal too)

 

[AJT]

Cough Cough Cough Cough *year old thread* Cough Cough Cough Cough

No doubt...

Hey Plum, hows the car coming????

Andy

 

[The Great One]

No doubt...

Hey Plumb, hows the car coming????

Andy

I think it is still in the same condition as it was in when this thread was first created one year ago.

Don't worry. Even Viperless, we still love you Plum.

 

[RTTTTed]

My 350z was putting down about 410 WHP and had 285's on the rear (10" wide). I'm sure it would keep up with my Viper because of the weight difference, particularly from a roll.

You can buy a Z for around 28K. Spend 15K on a turbo setup and fuel system upgrade and you're good to go up to around 420 WHP on a stock block for low $40's. Yes, you can buy a Viper for that, but it comes down to personal preference. A 410 WHP Z is a heck of a lot of fun, and some folks just love the import scene. Nothing wrong with it.

If you want to talk apples to apples, the stock Z is a 3.5L V6. It's entitled to a power adder (or two) to make it the same fruit as an 8.0L V10.

A used 350Z, then modify it to beat a stock Viper that's worth the same price? I don't get it ...

You must have bought the Z because you like it a lot, and it just happens to beat a stock Viper sometimes, I guess.

I paid $9,000 for my used, modified Stealth that could beat stock Vipers. (60,000mi, mint shape).

New Vipers sold for $90,000cdn. Mitsubishi VR4's (not sold in canada) Supras and 350Z's sold for $45,000 + $45,000 import/excisetax = $90,000cdn. While the Stealth R/T TT (equal to 350, Supra and identical Mitsu VR4) sold for only $45,000 - no excise/import tax. Parts teh same. Might be different now.

Difference in value = tax paid at time of purchase.

I don't buy import, guess why?

Ted

 

[George Murray]

11 second Diesels ROCK!

 

[Tusc]

So we're all, uh..... armchairing a street race.... which only one person witnessed? Woo!

Officially: Project Blue Book says this never happened. A Viper did not lose to any other car. It must have been a weather balloon. Question me again and I'll send the MIBs after you.

Unofficially: Hey, it's the real world and anything can happen. You never know quite WHAT you're up against with another car/driver, even if you have the chance to eyeball it. So some other car could be modified from bumper to bumper, but also the Viper driver might just not be an experienced racer. We're not all born at the track, you know.

Even if the owner of the Viper in question isn't here to pipe up, I think it stands better for us to just give the thumbs up over this outcome, say good race.... and of course, better luck next time against a Viper with mods and a driver.

Coincidentally, I'm "all over the place" with my car interests and have taken part in building a 9 second daily-driven Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (former body style, not current) and am currently offering tech advice to a friend across town who is dumping a BUILT LS6 (C5 Z06 V8) into an RX-7..... another car that ought to prove a daily-driven 9 second ride, though it's best abilities will be from a roll.