Since a Stock 2015 Hellcat w/ DR's Just ran 10.85 @126 ph in the 1/4 Mile...

[black mamba1]

...and also ran 11.2 with stock tires...

See below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYol7m3WjGQ&list=UUsxsyssioAZGzMHGeFxM7lw

Then one of two things is just around the corner:

1. The 2015 or 2016 Viper gets another 100 to 150 hp or
2. The Viper will be discontinued

The status quo is definitely not sustainable as indicated both by the slow Gen 5 sales and dropping resale prices. So we are either on our way to being extremely excited about a new Viper or extremely disappointed with the loss of an American icon.

(I apologize if this video has already been played in other posts)

 

[Torquemonster]

Hopefully the response is #1. That engine could support 800hp NA with some shortened service intervals and a limited warranty. 800hp NA would be quite useable.

Mercedes AMG has a 2 year global warranty - it covers defects in manufacture no matter where the car was bought and in what country it is now. The Viper being a limited run car could offer that and make it more attractive to export the car. why not cut a deal via Fiat for Ferrari dealerships to offer servicing in a global arrangement? I'd look to import an 800hp ACR or special edition with limited global warranty. The US market is not enough anymore and the car as it sits is not attractive to buy offshore due to zero support. I wouldn't trust the local Jeep dealer to service one but I'd be happy to go to the Ferrari service center.

The ECU issue: let the aftermarket do their thing and void warranty other than for proven factory problems. Then those that want to play, pay. Threatening to sue tuners that crack the code is stupid. Someone could set up a stand alone system that over-rides the ECU and controls the engine but still lets the OEM retain all the other features required. This way it wouldn't be using SRT IP, just by-passing it to control timing and fuel and sharing sensor info. Any ECU experts out there want to comment on if that is feasible?

 

[05Commemorative]

Why are the two even related? Do we think some potential Viper owners will get confused and purchase a Challenger instead or visa versa? Did they forget the min $40k price difference and back seats, etc.

Are there really people that head down to the dealer to get a viper because of its 1/4 mile time and then say "hey, there is a Challenger, I think I will get it instead..."

I guess for me, you were either in the sports car market or not. You wanted a two seater or not. You wanted a good looking car or not. You had $60k or $100k to spend. The list goes on and on.

Would love to hear from the person that was going to get a Viper and now is going to get the Challenger. (seriously, a real person that could have afforded the Viper, was truly interested and now changed their minds because of a Challenger).

 

[DMan]

I,just posted in the other thread I watch done run at an NHRA event today and it went 12.18 at 118 mph. May me look stupid when I said watch this pig run a 10, and it went a 12, at a prop event with ideal track prep. Maybe a fluke, maybe it was at Everest Summit altitude.

 

[black mamba1]

Why are the two even related? Do we think some potential Viper owners will get confused and purchase a Challenger instead or visa versa? Did they forget the min $40k price difference and back seats, etc.

Are there really people that head down to the dealer to get a viper because of its 1/4 mile time and then say "hey, there is a Challenger, I think I will get it instead..."

I guess for me, you were either in the sports car market or not. You wanted a two seater or not. You wanted a good looking car or not. You had $60k or $100k to spend. The list goes on and on.

Would love to hear from the person that was going to get a Viper and now is going to get the Challenger. (seriously, a real person that could have afforded the Viper, was truly interested and now changed their minds because of a Challenger).

Its more complicated than that. This is similar to the Corvette/Buick Gran National dilemma of the mid to late 80's and yes, the Gran National took several potential Vette buyers. Now, some will say the Gran National and the Vette are in a similar class as far as price and exclusivity, but actually the Gran National was much rarer than the Vette. My brother was an engineer for GM when he brought home an 87 Gran National in December of 1987. His car was capable of low 5's 0-60 and mid 13's in the 1/4 mile...and no one at the time went around saying..."well, its just black Buick T-
Type, nothing really exotic about it". The Gran National was well respected and feared back then and rather rare.

And that's what folk want in a sports car. They want it to be rare, feared, and respected. The Gen 5 is just rare. Many people who have Vipers also buy other Dodge cars like Challengers, Chargers, Magnums when they were being made, etc. And I for one will definitely buy the Hellcat before I buy a Gen 5....what sense does it make to buy a "dodge sports car" just cuz it looks sporty, yet a Dodge passenger car on the same showroom floor of the dealership will kick the "sports cars" ass in a drag race? Oh, and by the way the "sports car" is 30-40k more than the passenger car....hmmm...see how well that dog hunts...cuz I can tell you right now that dog aint been hunting too well as of late.

 

[Bobpantax]

The track is at 5800 feet. It did well for the density altitude applicable at the time. So using a DA ET correction factor of .91 which is an approximation but probably pretty close to accurate for 5800 feet and the weather conditions at the time of the run, the car ran the equivalent of an 11.08.

I,just posted in the other thread I watch done run at an NHRA event today and it went 12.18 at 118 mph. May me look stupid when I said watch this pig run a 10, and it went a 12, at a prop event with ideal track prep. Maybe a fluke, maybe it was at Everest Summit altitude.

 

[Bruce H.]

...and also ran 11.2 with stock tires...

See below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYol7m3WjGQ&list=UUsxsyssioAZGzMHGeFxM7lw

Then one of two things is just around the corner:

1. The 2015 or 2016 Viper gets another 100 to 150 hp or
2. The Viper will be discontinued

That's a great time, but what's even more impressive is the Gen V runs a 10.8 with computer and exhaust. That's right...an exotic supercar driver's car with old school stick shift appeal that was designed and built to excell on the road course can run a 10.8 on a drag strip! Less appealing cars need to compromise the Viper's core values by adding AWD and a DCT to put their power down, and compromise road course performance with forced induction.

1. You will never see the Viper's 8.4 in any year make 700 hp from the factory,
2. Great cars do get discontinued unfortunately, and are often times not fully apprciated until shortly after that happens. We should compile a list of iconic cars that were showroom disasters when new, and highly sought after when used. Those who are afraid the Viper will get discontinued one day, and want to own a new one, should buy one before that happens.

Why are the two even related? Do we think some potential Viper owners will get confused and purchase a Challenger instead or visa versa? Did they forget the min $40k price difference and back seats, etc.

Are there really people that head down to the dealer to get a viper because of its 1/4 mile time and then say "hey, there is a Challenger, I think I will get it instead..."

I guess for me, you were either in the sports car market or not. You wanted a two seater or not. You wanted a good looking car or not. You had $60k or $100k to spend. The list goes on and on.

Would love to hear from the person that was going to get a Viper and now is going to get the Challenger. (seriously, a real person that could have afforded the Viper, was truly interested and now changed their minds because of a Challenger).

Exactly. The cars are in completely different classes, competing with different cars at different price points, but it's possible a guy that had a casual interest in a Viper might fall in love with the Challenger instead...or a Jeep, or whatever. But the guy looking for a serious exotic supercar will pretty much have to go to the European brands if the Viper doesn't suit his tastes.

 

[DMan]

The track is at 5800 feet. It did well for the density altitude applicable at the time. So using a DA ET correction factor of .91 which is an approximation but probably pretty close to accurate for 5800 feet and the weather conditions at the time of the run, the car ran the equivalent of an 11.08.

I couldn't see what track it was. I dropped it could be at altitude in the crowd, nice to find out I was right.

 

[black mamba1]

That's a great time, but what's even more impressive is the Gen V runs a 10.8 with computer and exhaust. That's right...an exotic supercar driver's car with old school stick shift appeal that was designed and built to excell on the road course can run a 10.8 on a drag strip! Less appealing cars need to compromise the Viper's core values by adding AWD and a DCT to put their power down, and compromise road course performance with forced induction.

1. You will never see the Viper's 8.4 in any year make 700 hp from the factory,
2. Great cars do get discontinued unfortunately, and are often times not fully appreciated until shortly after that happens. We should compile a list of iconic cars that were showroom disasters when new, and highly sought after when used. Those who are afraid the Viper will get discontinued one day, and want to own a new one, should buy one before that happens.



Exactly. The cars are in completely different classes, competing with different cars at different price points, but it's possible a guy that had a casual interest in a Viper might fall in love with the Challenger instead...or a Jeep, or whatever. But the guy looking for a serious exotic supercar will pretty much have to go to the European brands if the Viper doesn't suit his tastes.

Years back the core values included no nanny-gates like abs, stability control, cruise control, power windows...etc. Now the Gen 5 has as much high tech gadgets as a Porsche (except automatic tranny) and die hard Viper guys are still buying the car and still love the car. I for one don't think the SRT guys made the Gen 5 engine with forged internals just for Hennessey and Doug Levin...I think Chrysler/Dodge/SRT saw this day coming and built a Gen5 engine they know there were going to supercharge eventually. I saw another video today from a Chrysler spokesman/engineer who said that the days of naturally aspirated engines are limited at best. Forced induction is the way of the future for internal combustion engines as is automatic transmissions for sports cars.

A well known fact and adage of life is you either evolve and adapt or become extinct. In a world that operates on that basis sticking to "core values" when those values result in a slower sports car is suicide. Sports cars are becoming faster using forced induction and high tech nanny systems and other systems. Accept change and adjust to the competition or join the Dodo bird, the T-Rex, and the Wholly Mammoth as only memories found in an encyclopedia.

 

[sunsalem]

I saw another video today from a Chrysler spokesman/engineer who said that the days of naturally aspirated engines are limited at best. Forced induction is the way of the future for internal combustion engines as is automatic transmissions for sports cars.

A well known fact and adage of life is you either evolve and adapt or become extinct. In a world that operates on that basis sticking to "core values" when those values result in a slower sports car is suicide. Sports cars are becoming faster using forced induction and high tech nanny systems and other systems. Accept change and adjust to the competition or join the Dodo bird, the T-Rex, and the Wholly Mammoth as only memories found in an encyclopedia.

Turbos and automatics are the near future...both offer improved mileage over SC & NA.

Ferrari doesn't even put out a manual....this should speak volumes.
They are also fading out NAs...the first causality is the California.

 

[MoparMap]

I don't understand. Dodge builds a car exclusively aimed at drag racing and suddenly that means their road course car is dead in the water? That's like building a station wagon that can carry 7 people and claming the 2 seat market is done for because why would you ever want to be able to carry fewer people? They are two different cars for two different purposes.

 

[klamathpro]

I don't understand. Dodge builds a car exclusively aimed at drag racing and suddenly that means their road course car is dead in the water? That's like building a station wagon that can carry 7 people and claming the 2 seat market is done for because why would you ever want to be able to carry fewer people? They are two different cars for two different purposes.

It's because it's a numbers game. The competition's mainstream flagships are all quarter mile monsters as well as great track cars. ZR1/Z06, 911 Turbo S, R8, GT-R are all 10 sec cars out of the box. What are the top three questions people ask you when they see your Viper?

- How much Horsepower?
- How fast does it go in the quarter?
- How many MPG's does it get (Never figured out why)

They never ask "What's the lap time at the 'Ring?", "How fast is this at Laguna Seca?", "How good are the brakes at the end of the long straight?". People see bottom line numbers, and when an average buyer sees that the $60k Dodge is faster in the quarter, he's not going to go buy the Challenger, but he's not going to buy the Viper either. He's going to buy the Z06 or GT-R that can do the quarter in 10 sec, and be used for occasional track use. These are the average buyers, and Dodge needs to attract the average buyers because the small group of niche buyers aren't buying enough GEN-V's. The sales numbers show it, and the resale value shows. I talked to a guy yesterday at the track that just bought a used SRT with track pack two days ago from a Nissan lot. He said it was a trade-in for a GT-R and he picked it up for $72k because the dealer couldn't get rid of it. And this is now the second SRT that has sold for under $73k that we know of. It's not up for debate, the Viper needs more HP and at least be able to show flagship numbers right out of the box, or it will simply die. The few of us that appreciate the car for what it is are dwindling in numbers and can't sustain the numbers needed to keep the car alive. See, it's a Numbers game.

 

[black mamba1]

Spot on klam, and its amazing to me that so many Viper owners do not understand that. Nor do I understand Viper owners simply ignoring what the data all around them is screaming loud and clear...and that is FEW SPORTS CAR OWNERS ARE IMPRESSED WITH THE GEN 5. But I guarantee you the Hellcat will have a waiting list months long and will fly off showroom floors like crazy and will draw huge crowds at car shows.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I think the idea that some have of the Viper being dead in the water existed way before the Challenger Hellcat came out. So the OP's premise isnt new. The G5 is the best Viper built to date but that hasn't meant anything to the majority of car enthusiasts out there because of how its marketed, equipped etc. Plenty of reasons to fear for the Vipers future that have nothing to do with the Hellcat. I haven't met any car enthusiasts that think its a good idea to make a lesser car be faster in any parameter to your top offering, especially while that top offering is floundering in mediocre sales and image. If another mfg one-ups your top offering so be it. That is the nature of the beast. But to make one of your own, lesser offerings one-up your star car in any aspect while it aint selling is just nuts imho. Its like they are hitting themselves when they are down.

At this point you just have to wonder if this Gen Viper was part of any other company than SRT/Dodge if it may have flourished due to better marketing/decission making on its target demographic. I just dont get SRT/Dodge's handling of this generations Viper.

 

[sunsalem]

I don't understand. Dodge builds a car exclusively aimed at drag racing and suddenly that means their road course car is dead in the water? That's like building a station wagon that can carry 7 people and claming the 2 seat market is done for because why would you ever want to be able to carry fewer people? They are two different cars for two different purposes.

Good point.

What are the top three questions people ask you when they see your Viper?

- How much Horsepower?
- How fast does it go in the quarter?
- How many MPG's does it get (Never figured out why)

They never ask "What's the lap time at the 'Ring?", "How fast is this at Laguna Seca?", "How good are the brakes at the end of the long straight?".

Very true.

These are the average buyers, and Dodge needs to attract the average buyers because the small group of niche buyers aren't buying enough GEN-V's. The sales numbers show it, and the resale value shows.

A lot of the problems with the slow sales for the Gen 5 should be directed at the deterioration of the buying power of the middle class the last 15 years (particularly from the Big Mortgage Crash onwards).

Vipers were never the dream of the wealthy.
They are/were the fantasy car of guys who have a little bit of dough; guys who admired the Vette and its American Thunder, but want something more exclusive, more cool.

The problem is $$$ is much tighter now and the middle class is shrinking, and with it the Viper's traditional market.
G5 couldn't have been launched at a worse time.

 

[sunsalem]

But to make one of your own, lesser offerings one-up your star car in any aspect while it aint selling is just nuts imho. Its like they are hitting themselves when they are down.

At this point you just have to wonder if this Gen Viper was part of any other company than SRT/Dodge if it may have flourished due to better marketing/decission making on its target demographic. I just dont get SRT/Dodge's handling of this generations Viper.

With the introduction of the Hellcat at this time, I have to wonder if Dodge has already written off the Viper.

 

[05Commemorative]

avg buyer? come one now. Like someone accidentally bought a Viper. Give people more credit in this price range of what they are looking for. What the car look like, how it drives, sound, quality, etc all add up in this price range. The challenger did nothing more than give Dodge a competitor in the pony car market which they desperately needed. Even there, they still provide a pig (4400lb) car.

Way way over simplification to say more HP solves the problem.

It's because it's a numbers game. The competition's mainstream flagships are all quarter mile monsters as well as great track cars. ZR1/Z06, 911 Turbo S, R8, GT-R are all 10 sec cars out of the box. What are the top three questions people ask you when they see your Viper?

- How much Horsepower?
- How fast does it go in the quarter?
- How many MPG's does it get (Never figured out why)

They never ask "What's the lap time at the 'Ring?", "How fast is this at Laguna Seca?", "How good are the brakes at the end of the long straight?". People see bottom line numbers, and when an average buyer sees that the $60k Dodge is faster in the quarter, he's not going to go buy the Challenger, but he's not going to buy the Viper either. He's going to buy the Z06 or GT-R that can do the quarter in 10 sec, and be used for occasional track use. These are the average buyers, and Dodge needs to attract the average buyers because the small group of niche buyers aren't buying enough GEN-V's. The sales numbers show it, and the resale value shows. I talked to a guy yesterday at the track that just bought a used SRT with track pack two days ago from a Nissan lot. He said it was a trade-in for a GT-R and he picked it up for $72k because the dealer couldn't get rid of it. And this is now the second SRT that has sold for under $73k that we know of. It's not up for debate, the Viper needs more HP and at least be able to show flagship numbers right out of the box, or it will simply die. The few of us that appreciate the car for what it is are dwindling in numbers and can't sustain the numbers needed to keep the car alive. See, it's a Numbers game.

 

[black mamba1]

With the introduction of the Hellcat at this time, I have to wonder if Dodge =has already written off the Viper.

Does make you wonder, or if they are planting the seeds to prepare us for an automatic option on a 750 or so hp Viper. In the video you hear the Hellcat driver tell the old school driver, "this car is an automatic and shifts faster than you I don't care how fast you shift". And in the video you see a shot of the old school driver trying to shift as fast as he can but the Hellcat just walks away from him. Also, in the other Chrysler video I saw yesterday the engineer mentioned how sports cars are evolving to automatics. Even if Dodge makes a 750 hp Dodge and keeps in manual, the tenths of seconds it takes to shift can be the difference in running a 10.6 1/4 mile and a 11.3 quarter mile...and that is if the driver is somewhat professional. Average drivers will never be able to properly manually shift a 750 hp Viper and be competitive with say the C7 Z automatic

Right now the Chrysler/Dodge/SRT halo car is a 4000 lb passenger car with 707 hp that costs 60-70k. The Viper is irrelevant in this scenario and either the Viper guys will ante up and kick in...or just go home and take the Viper as a brand with them.

 

[SnakeBitten]

With the introduction of the Hellcat at this time, I have to wonder if Dodge has already written off the Viper.

It does make you feel they either have something up their sleeve for the Viper or they have written it off at least in its current form. We shall see what happens after 2015. Either way bringing out the Hellcat with 707hp and running with or beating the Viper in the straights wont make anyone come off the fence and buy any of the 2013/2014 non-TA's still floundering on the lots eventhough they are not the same class of car. Image can be everything in this fickle world. I mean even the deeply discounted prices dont seem to help move them off lots much as I thought it would.

I have to say though to be fair it seems the Hellcat and the Viper, both on DR's, are pretty much equal in terms of 1/4 mile as both did 10's @ around 126-127 mph. Unfortunately that stat only helps the Hellcats image and does no favors for the snake.

 

[MoparMap]

Spot on klam, and its amazing to me that so many Viper owners do not understand that. Nor do I understand Viper owners simply ignoring what the data all around them is screaming loud and clear...and that is FEW SPORTS CAR OWNERS ARE IMPRESSED WITH THE GEN 5. But I guarantee you the Hellcat will have a waiting list months long and will fly off showroom floors like crazy and will draw huge crowds at car shows.

The funny thing is that pretty much all gen 5 owners are hugely impressed with them. The satisfaction rates between owners and shoppers seem to be on total opposite sides of the fence. Hard for a company to decide what to do in a situation like that.

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Klam,It has not been stated better than you just did...

I for one have called my Dodge dealer and told him I want the first Hellcat he gets and I do not care what color or what it costs.Must be Automatic....He has 9 other people , that are for sure good customers that want them also...10 Sec. Drag Race Monster with some tires for 70 ish.Come on,what a car and it does not run to bad on the track also. Also,what a highway machine...

This dealer has 8 brand new Gen 5s he can not give away....

So,their ya have it,that 2 people on here that are getting Hellcats over a Gen.5.....

After no announcement at the party if reference to any performance changes to the Viper,appears new Vipers are done in the near future now that they have their Hellcat...

 

[black mamba1]

Klam,It has not been stated better than you just did...

I for one have called my Dodge dealer and told him I want the first Hellcat he gets and I do not care what color or what it costs.Must be Automatic....He has 9 other people , that are for sure good customers that want them also...10 Sec. Drag Race Monster with some tires for 70 ish.Come on,what a car and it does not run to bad on the track also. Also,what a highway machine...

This dealer has 8 brand new Gen 5s he can not give away....

So,their ya have it,that 2 people on here that are getting Hellcats over a Gen.5.....

After no announcement at the party if reference to any performance changes to the Viper,appears new Vipers are done in the near future now that they have their Hellcat...

See what I mean.

And I've been saying this every since the Gen 5's performance data was released a couple of years back. I've been a sports car fanatic every since I could stand upright and I know what most sports car guys want in their dream sports car...and one thing they don't want is to get their ass kicked on a Friday night with their date in their car by the competition let alone a 4000 lbs passenger car. I've been saying this every since the Gen 5 hit dealerships and I will say it again....the Gen 5 in its current form...IS DOOMED.

 

[Bobpantax]

Everyone said they were going to get a Gen V too. I will believe Hellcat sales when I see people actually put up the money. Dodge is thinking the same way. They are being cautious with initial production. Smart on their part.

 

[sunsalem]

Does make you wonder, or if they are planting the seeds to prepare us for an automatic option on a 750 or so hp Viper. In the video you hear the Hellcat driver tell the old school driver, "this car is an automatic and shifts faster than you I don't care how fast you shift". And in the video you see a shot of the old school driver trying to shift as fast as he can but the Hellcat just walks away from him. Also, in the other Chrysler video I saw yesterday the engineer mentioned how sports cars are evolving to automatics. Even if Dodge makes a 750 hp Dodge and keeps in manual, the tenths of seconds it takes to shift can be the difference in running a 10.6 1/4 mile and a 11.3 quarter mile...and that is if the driver is somewhat professional. Average drivers will never be able to properly manually shift a 750 hp Viper and be competitive with say the C7 Z automatic.

There isn't any way a manual can keep up with the new DCTs.
There is a very good reason why the GTS-R has one....

Either way bringing out the Hellcat with 707hp and running with or beating the Viper in the straights wont make anyone come off the fence and buy any of the 2013/2014 non-TA's still floundering on the lots eventhough they are not the same class of car. Image can be everything in this fickle world. I mean even the deeply discounted prices dont seem to help move them off lots much as I thought it would.

I have to say though to be fair it seems the Hellcat and the Viper, both on DR's, are pretty much equal in terms of 1/4 mile as both did 10's @ around 126-127 mph. Unfortunately that stat only helps the Hellcats image and does no favors for the snake.

Sad, but true.

Everyone said they were going to get a Gen V too. I will believe Hellcat sales when I see people actually put up the money.

Hellcats won't list for $140k.

 

[Twister]

Tens in the quarter....lol who cares......that's all traction.

People who are really into numbers care about mph...trap speeds.

Z06 and gtr are 123-125 mph

Zr1 Viper and P tt are 128-130 mph cars and the viper usually out mph the zr1 in head to head reviews by a tad.

The viper will beat nearly anything on the road in a 60-130 mph race other than the aventador and other super exotics.

Viper is a bad mono despite only running high tens or low 11s.

Roll racing vids show that it easily dust away gtrs and z06s. Even molded ones in some cases..


This 70k helical isnt for me lol.....to its market Im glad and its good to see dodge kick in ass.

But that 126 mph trapped speed tells me that the viper will probally walk away past 100 mph.

Vipers still the top dog in every regard by a longshot

 

[ScrewDrvr]

I wonder if they will get into the 9's with a basic pulley/tune.

Or is the computer gonna be on lockdown again?

 

[black mamba1]

Cam and/or headers will probably get the mph up, and just use simple extrapolation...what are the official 1/4 mile times in rags for the ZR1, GT-R, Audi R8s, and other forced induction cars. Even the Mustang 662 hp car, then look at what these cars are actually doing at the tracks with minor mods like headers, pully's, and tunes. Some of these guys are taking off what, almost a .3 to a half second or more in the 1/4 just with minor mods?
The Hellcat will be no different. Minor mods and this ***** is kicking the rat sh*t out of most of the competition in its class (and anything else within a $50,000 price range)...its already kicking the crap out of them right off the showroom floor.

And trust and believe Chrysler would not make a video of the Hellcat running 10.8 if it wasn't doable..and rather easily doable.

 

[FrankBarba]

All the Maufactors are doing it. Chevrolet has its COPO - Ford Has its Cobra Jet...mind you these are all strictly
1/4 cars not to be street driven. This Challanger is like an ACR - Dive it all day long then to the Track, 1/4 mile at a time.
I see nothing coming down the pike with Viper so i will be ordering a HELL Cat....Hell Yea....

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Dodge will sell all the Hellcats they can make for years..At least the employees at Viper Plant will have a place to work...For Me,I am good with 10.80s with some tires.That way, if I break it ,away it goes to my Dodge Dealer for fix..A Black Hellcat with black windows will look like a really mean Highway Po,Po Car....

 

[emericr]

I would be #3 on this site. Nearly bought a Gen-V (see my previous posts) and I am on the list for a Hellcat. Whether I will go thru with the purchase depends if I will like the AMG GT better. I do agree both cars appeal to a different market but it is so easy to justify a Hellcat than a Viper with too many compromises as a DD
Twister: I beg to differ, my tuned CLS trapping 128 will at least keep up (don't want to start a war) with a Gen V.
I really hope it is option#1 but I have little faith it will actually happen.