So where/when is the next VCA raffle car?! The "other guys" already had one.
- Thread starter gb66gth
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CWhiteRun
Has Left the Room!
Better make it quick, 2015 is the last year of the Viper production.
denniskgb
Enthusiast
you mean Steve and Will bobbing heads dolls that say "parts? what parts?"
Allan
Enthusiast
If somebody ordered one and sent money , would the ever get the product?
Is there really a difference?
GRANGER73
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Only in the eye of the prize awarder.
FrankBarba
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To me that was pretty lame. Placing 1996 GTS Stickers on a Gen V is just plan
bad..Great door prize though....Hopefully they are not going to market this viper
as an Official Indy Pace Car that would be fraud....
bad..Great door prize though....Hopefully they are not going to market this viper
as an Official Indy Pace Car that would be fraud....
GRANGER73
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A door prize is also considered a lottery. It's a thin line between door prize/raffle. In fact Roget shows each is a synonym of the other.
Also, according to Michigan law: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/BSL-CG-1824_26045_7.pdf (excerpt follows)
"We are only giving away door prizes; we aren’t conducting a raffle.” If people are being charged to attend a function where (door) prizes will be awarded through a drawing, then you are conducting a raffle.
“We are conducting a 50/50, not a raffle.” Contrary to many people’s opinion, 50/50 drawings are raffles."
It's pretty clear why the "dooraffle"was moved to Ohio.
Also, according to Michigan law: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/BSL-CG-1824_26045_7.pdf (excerpt follows)
"We are only giving away door prizes; we aren’t conducting a raffle.” If people are being charged to attend a function where (door) prizes will be awarded through a drawing, then you are conducting a raffle.
“We are conducting a 50/50, not a raffle.” Contrary to many people’s opinion, 50/50 drawings are raffles."
It's pretty clear why the "dooraffle"was moved to Ohio.
I believe the Door Prize may have been conducted under Ohio law not Michigan law because the drawing was evidently done in Ohio and broadcast by video to the ballroom where the dinner was being held. The winner had to be present at the dinner to win. Ohio law is more favorable. I am not sure but Ohio law may view a door prize as follows: Raffle tickets are tickets sold separately from event tickets. If everyone attending an event is eligible to win a prize drawing and there is no separate prize ticket, then it’s a door prize, not a raffle. In any event, they did their homework and a great guy who really deserved to win, won the car. We should all be happy for him. Now maybe he can send me some of that delicious food he makes in a cold pack.
Factual clarification of another Randall propaganda post on the VOA site. Randall implies that the "anonymous tipster" that caused an issue was a VCA person. He knows, and the VOA club leadership knows, that that is very far from the truth. I heard from three reliable sources from the VOA that the tipster was someone who hates the VCA and does not like the VOA either. It is sad and unfortunate that Randall found it necessary to dilute the joy of Tony's win with a negative, somewhat false, post. Who cares what some creep tried to do. The event was a success and Tony won. Bravo for Tony!!
Bob, is it safe to say that Randall is the Joseph "Gerbils" of the VOA?
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I understand your point but would not make that analogy. Randall is just a Director of Membership for a club. He is not evil. JG was. I think that Randall means well but is stuck in the past. The hostilities ended months ago. There are two clubs. There is no need to use shoe salesman tactics.
GRANGER73
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Does the dooraffle winner really make a killing?
Let's assume the winner keeps the car for one year with MSRP OF $140,490.00
Fed & Local tax. 53,386
Sales Tax. 10,000
Added tax on other income. 5,000
Opp cost/Int expense 1 yr. 4,000
Total. 72,386
Value of 2013 GTS Viper one year from now? Let's assume @$90K. Value sure disappears in a hurry.
Let's assume the winner keeps the car for one year with MSRP OF $140,490.00
Fed & Local tax. 53,386
Sales Tax. 10,000
Added tax on other income. 5,000
Opp cost/Int expense 1 yr. 4,000
Total. 72,386
Value of 2013 GTS Viper one year from now? Let's assume @$90K. Value sure disappears in a hurry.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
Indeed, another propaganda piece that needs clarification from the SRT Homecoming is: "A vendor was going to release some modifications at our event but a fight between Randall and Dan caused this to be delayed"
Fact= Randall and Dan have not communicated by any method in any way since September, and no such discussion has occurred. We have know for months that this vendor is doing this, and the timing and choosing of this product's release is completely at his own discretion, and we are not pressing him to do anything in any way to benefit us. It's his product, he owns the release timing.
Just another amazing piece of propaganda, based on zero fact, just like the "VCA tipped off the authorities" comment. I have actually told Randall (or one of his raiders) in a recent response to an email to me that we simply don't care about them as much as they do us. We have come to the realization there are 2 clubs, months ago, and wish their members well, but please stop the lies, propaganda, and slander, you just look childish.
We spend enough time on this club, with no personal gain, personal/childish attacks and lies are for children or people who have something to personally gain.
As to the raffle, we are working on one, there might be something interesting at VOI, but rest assured, we won't exploit loopholes/semantics around what is gambling and and what is not. IF we have a raffle, it will be called a raffle, and everyone will be able to join in (or not if they so choose, we won't make you make a choice about gambling and attending an event), if we do something else that is NOT a fundraiser, then it will be labeled as not a fundraiser, we're not going to blur the lines, and we will do everything completely clear, transparent, legally, and above reproach, or we won't do it...
Lastly on the JG reference, I don't know Randall personally well, I only know of his actions since the breakup, but there is absolutely zero correlation with JG. These **** references (when applied to anyone, including CM) are unwarranted, lest we forget this is a car club, people come here for a hobby and fun, and we collectively drove off over 1000 members due to this type of petty name-calling and unprofessional behavior. If I (or we) do it, I expect you to call us out, if they do it, I would expect they would get reminded of this fact...
Fact= Randall and Dan have not communicated by any method in any way since September, and no such discussion has occurred. We have know for months that this vendor is doing this, and the timing and choosing of this product's release is completely at his own discretion, and we are not pressing him to do anything in any way to benefit us. It's his product, he owns the release timing.
Just another amazing piece of propaganda, based on zero fact, just like the "VCA tipped off the authorities" comment. I have actually told Randall (or one of his raiders) in a recent response to an email to me that we simply don't care about them as much as they do us. We have come to the realization there are 2 clubs, months ago, and wish their members well, but please stop the lies, propaganda, and slander, you just look childish.
We spend enough time on this club, with no personal gain, personal/childish attacks and lies are for children or people who have something to personally gain.
As to the raffle, we are working on one, there might be something interesting at VOI, but rest assured, we won't exploit loopholes/semantics around what is gambling and and what is not. IF we have a raffle, it will be called a raffle, and everyone will be able to join in (or not if they so choose, we won't make you make a choice about gambling and attending an event), if we do something else that is NOT a fundraiser, then it will be labeled as not a fundraiser, we're not going to blur the lines, and we will do everything completely clear, transparent, legally, and above reproach, or we won't do it...
Lastly on the JG reference, I don't know Randall personally well, I only know of his actions since the breakup, but there is absolutely zero correlation with JG. These **** references (when applied to anyone, including CM) are unwarranted, lest we forget this is a car club, people come here for a hobby and fun, and we collectively drove off over 1000 members due to this type of petty name-calling and unprofessional behavior. If I (or we) do it, I expect you to call us out, if they do it, I would expect they would get reminded of this fact...
Nsane1
Enthusiast
Granger-
Great points, a few clarification Points. The prize will presumably be valued at cost (not MSRP), the price paid was significantly less than the MSRP (some know the number, I've been told it, but it's not my place to divulge). When when we did raffles, we paid the sales tax (not sure here), so that is reduced (but ups the prize value).
If you really want the car, you get it at a good price, if you sell it you net ~20-40k, which I would be pretty jazzed about, and as Bob points out, the winner is actually a class act, has done a LOT for the community, and I'm not sure I could have picked a better person to have won than he.
Great points, a few clarification Points. The prize will presumably be valued at cost (not MSRP), the price paid was significantly less than the MSRP (some know the number, I've been told it, but it's not my place to divulge). When when we did raffles, we paid the sales tax (not sure here), so that is reduced (but ups the prize value).
If you really want the car, you get it at a good price, if you sell it you net ~20-40k, which I would be pretty jazzed about, and as Bob points out, the winner is actually a class act, has done a LOT for the community, and I'm not sure I could have picked a better person to have won than he.
Dads Toy
Enthusiast
did anyone answer the original question as to when this was going to happen?
Nsane1
Enthusiast
We don't have a "when" but we are looking at several options to do this transparently.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
Please see the thread in the members section related to this...
Trust me, as far as the IRS is concerned the MSRP is the defacto
value of a new car as a prize regardless of circumstance its aquired.
Doesn't matter how many experts or documents you present to
prove otherwise...
Not quite accurate.
1. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/notice_1340.pdf
2. While the sticker price will be considered, the price paid for the car by the organization holding the raffle is also evidence absent a contribution component by the vendor that provided the car. The burden of proof with respect establishing the fair market value is on the taxpayer door prize/lottery winner.
In the case of the recent door prize, the car was a 2013 model. And, unlike other First Edition models, the Gen V one did not sell as well and has been heavily discounted by many dealers. Thus it should not be that hard to prove that the FMV - the amount that a willing buyer would pay and a willing seller would accept for the car when neither party is compelled to buy or sell, and both parties have reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts. - is less than that shown as the MSRP.
I have litigated valuation issues for more than thirty years. For a lay person it may be difficult. For a skilled tax litigator, it is a common issue. And Tony, I am not volunteering. LOL.
1. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/notice_1340.pdf
2. While the sticker price will be considered, the price paid for the car by the organization holding the raffle is also evidence absent a contribution component by the vendor that provided the car. The burden of proof with respect establishing the fair market value is on the taxpayer door prize/lottery winner.
In the case of the recent door prize, the car was a 2013 model. And, unlike other First Edition models, the Gen V one did not sell as well and has been heavily discounted by many dealers. Thus it should not be that hard to prove that the FMV - the amount that a willing buyer would pay and a willing seller would accept for the car when neither party is compelled to buy or sell, and both parties have reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts. - is less than that shown as the MSRP.
I have litigated valuation issues for more than thirty years. For a lay person it may be difficult. For a skilled tax litigator, it is a common issue. And Tony, I am not volunteering. LOL.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
Just think of the money(hundreds possibly) you saved by not getting lottery/raffle tickets on one. Guess I am not a true optimist on lottos but the odds are not good. Cool IF you win a car and then just have to pay the hefty taxes. Someone has to win as the old saying goes, but..........
Mopar Steve
Enthusiast
Please start the raffle before the end of the year. Before my membership expires.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
LOL Steve, we are trying...
ViperWannabe
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did someone say raffle?
Didnt know such things could happen. Viper givaway?!
Didnt know such things could happen. Viper givaway?!
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