Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-ASAP

[hou99gts]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

More width - more weight, more air to push, highway lane issues with other drivers, parking issues, harder to squeeze through a narrow opening when racing. Other than the personal appearance preference shown by some above, what is the practical benefit?

More mechanical grip and more aerodynamic grip possibilities. The Viper would also be less prone to having the back end come around on you with the extra width and better length/width ratio. If the average joe can drive and park a 96" wide dually truck everyday, I'm sure the Viper nation could handle an 80" - 82" wide car.

 

[shooter_t1]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Couldn't agree more.
If THAT was the Gen V Viper I wouldn't be looking at anything else.
The current alliteration (AKA gentleman's edge-less cruiser) doesn't excite me in the slightest.

You nailed it Jon. I would sell my aero coupe for an ACR that looked like this car. No hesitation whatsoever.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I'd never get it on my trailer. I can hear it now "drive it, don't trailer it". And I do. I've put 10,000 miles on my ACR in a bit over a year but it is nice to be able to trailer it to the track in case something happens. Photoshop looks great but I think it is too wide to be practical.

 

[SSGViper]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I think SRT needs to clean house...hire Austin as Chief Designer...That is badazz! It's what I was hoping the Gen V would be! Ralph has just become too conservative with his design.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I'd never get it on my trailer. I can hear it now "drive it, don't trailer it". And I do. I've put 10,000 miles on my ACR in a bit over a year but it is nice to be able to trailer it to the track in case something happens. Photoshop looks great but I think it is too wide to be practical.

Time to buy a new trailer!

Jokes aside I have a solution for that. If Porsche can survive with 30 versions of the 911 I'm sure SRT can survive with a few versions of the VIper, ASSUMING the total production numbers don't increase.

SRT creates an ACR like the Gen IV, and then release the GTS-R Street that is what was said. GTS-R body work and Ferrari Scuderia style interior. Problem solved.

 

[sween]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

SRT creates an ACR like the Gen IV, and then release the GTS-R Street that is what was said. GTS-R body work and Ferrari Scuderia style interior. Problem solved.

That would be ridiculously sick but the problem is cost. The "GTS-R Street" would require new hood, new front bumper, new side panels, new rear end, new rear diffuser, (and I probably left some panels out), would cost a ton of money to put Alcantara everywhere on the inside. On top of this people would think its stupid if it doesn't make more HP, so its going cost more to make at least 60 more hp. Also people would be mad if its not lighter so more money to make it lighter. This is all part and equipment money, not including research, development and testing, etc.

A carbon fiber splitter , carbon fiber wing, brakes and suspension made the 2010 ACR cost almost 15 grand more than the regular SRT-10 coupe, can you imagine if they put a whole carbon fiber body kit on it?

At the end of the day this GTS-R street will be at least 200 grand. Let me remind everyone on this forum that people were complaining that the regular model would be around 100 grand. 200 grand is a whole new ball park with Mclarens, Ferraris, and so on. Being realistic, I know many people on this forum that are complaining would not buy it.

Hate to burst everyones bubble because the photoshops do look sick, but lets be real.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

That would be ridiculously sick but the problem is cost. The "GTS-R Street" would require new hood, new front bumper, new side panels, new rear end, new rear diffuser, (and I probably left some panels out), would cost a ton of money to put Alcantara everywhere on the inside. On top of this people would think its stupid if it doesn't make more HP, so its going cost more to make at least 60 more hp. Also people would be mad if its not lighter so more money to make it lighter. This is all part and equipment money, not including research, development and testing, etc.

A carbon fiber splitter , carbon fiber wing, brakes and suspension made the 2010 ACR cost almost 15 grand more than the regular SRT-10 coupe, can you imagine if they put a whole carbon fiber body kit on it?

At the end of the day this GTS-R street will be at least 200 grand. Let me remind everyone on this forum that people were complaining that the regular model would be around 100 grand. 200 grand is a whole new ball park with Mclarens, Ferraris, and so on. Being realistic, I know many people on this forum that are complaining would not buy it.

Hate to burst everyones bubble because the photoshops do look sick, but lets be real.

You make a lot of sense but I disagree in a few areas. The debate here is enjoyable for sure though! I think for $150-155k they could break even on it. Easily. Couple the break even price with the amount of good it would do for the brand and you'll have a win-win. Most of the molds are already made for the body. Make a few minor adjustments and you are set-up and ready to go. Even if they sold it for a slight loss it would be worth it. This car is a show stopper.

Taken a step further, for the HP issue offer a voucher with purchase for a headers/exhaust/tune package. Hopefully this can get them around the emissions testing issues and hopefully it will offer the same crazy gains as the belanger setup did on the Gen IV (75HP). The reason people were disappointed in "only" 640 HP is misunderstood. It's not that 640 isn't enough. It's that the Viper has always been the monster of the pack. I think new Gen everyone was hoping for earth shattering numbers. I myself think 640 is plenty. I could care less if the GTS-R Street has any more.

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is a lot of carryover from the previous generation under the skin. This also helps drive cost down. IMO it can be done, and it would sell out quickly.

As far as people ********, that's just people who can't afford to buy a new Viper. There are plenty of people who don't comment on forums that would happily plop down $150k for one of these bad boys. The Gen V is out of my price range presently and I don't think it's absurd at all. You get what you pay for.

 

[05Commemorative]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

More mechanical grip and more aerodynamic grip possibilities. The Viper would also be less prone to having the back end come around on you with the extra width and better length/width ratio. If the average joe can drive and park a 96" wide dually truck everyday, I'm sure the Viper nation could handle an 80" - 82" wide car.

Do we really think we needed the car to be wider? IMO, It is already kind of a pig on size anways and would have been great to be a bit shorter, lighter, etc. I totally love the new car and will get one, but I do wish it would have been even lighter (closer to 3000lbs). Never desired it to be wider as can't think of a practical reason for it. btw, if worried about it coming around on you, use the traction/stability controls that you now have available.

Seriously , the street version of the viper might be as close to a race car as most of us will get (other than the ACR), but lets not go crazy and ask for a race car that is no longer practical on the street. Any of you seriously concerned about the mechanical grip and aerodynamic grip possibilities for the street? I get the looks comments, but what I saw in person did not have me walking away asking for more width.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I hate to burst everyone elses bubble... but its NOT THAT EXPENSIVE to make a car a few inches wider at the manufacturer level when the PARTS ALREADY EXIST from the GTSR. Like any of you wouldn't gladly pay the extra few K it *MAY* cost in the end to make the body alterations... yeah, right... you all know you would and say "thanks" while doing it. The problem is, that manufacturers are too busy trying to figure out how to plan obsolescence or "upcharges" into their designs to actually bring something groundbreaking to market.

I personally think it is bordering on ridiculous how again and again, the aftermarket or average Joes can design a body design that everybody loves, yet actual multi-million dollar manufacturers cannot seem to do it. Austin's PC is exactly how the car should have looked. This is not the time for a "retro" move, this is the time for an absolute balls-out effort. SRT should be focused on making a product that unequivocally cannot be looked down upon.

Do you want the Viper to fail? Make it mediocre and I guarantee it will happen. Without gobs of power to brag about, and a body that stops people on their tracks... it is just "another car". Also, if the ACR did come with a wider body, you better believe that the only thing they will sell IS ACR's, and it will tank their regular sales. By doing so, you just created a second tier of Vipers, effectively the opposite of the "V8 Version". ALL of them should be that wide, period.

Don't any of you remember the feeling of seeing a car off in the distance that is so low and wide you HAD to speed up at all costs to find out what it was? That is what the Viper needs again to get back into the spotlight.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

^ Best post to date. Case closed.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Do we really think we needed the car to be wider? IMO, It is already kind of a pig on size anways and would have been great to be a bit shorter, lighter, etc. I totally love the new car and will get one, but I do wish it would have been even lighter (closer to 3000lbs). Never desired it to be wider as can't think of a practical reason for it. btw, if worried about it coming around on you, use the traction/stability controls that you now have available.

Seriously , the street version of the viper might be as close to a race car as most of us will get (other than the ACR), but lets not go crazy and ask for a race car that is no longer practical on the street. Any of you seriously concerned about the mechanical grip and aerodynamic grip possibilities for the street? I get the looks comments, but what I saw in person did not have me walking away asking for more width.

I mean no disrespect with this, but why do you even own a Viper? The Corvette seems better suited for your taste. The Viper isn't a practical car. It's like the people who complained about burning their leg. Get over it. Go talk to original owners of the Lamborghini Diablo. They got what the car was about. Clinks, creaks, squeeks, cracks...all part of the exotic car club! There are a hos of neutered cars out there...GTR, Porsches, ZR1, etc,

And as mentioned, if there was no practical reason for fast cars to be wider, race cars wouldn't be 80"+ wide. Neither would supercars. The more narrow you make the car, the further in you have to jam the massive Viper tires, making leg room a luxury. Low and wide is the name of the game in the exotic world.

 

[05Commemorative]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I mean no disrespect with this, but why do you even own a Viper? The Corvette seems better suited for your taste. The Viper isn't a practical car. It's like the people who complained about burning their leg. Get over it. Go talk to original owners of the Lamborghini Diablo. They got what the car was about. Clinks, creaks, squeeks, cracks...all part of the exotic car club! There are a hos of neutered cars out there...GTR, Porsches, ZR1, etc,

And as mentioned, if there was no practical reason for fast cars to be wider, race cars wouldn't be 80"+ wide. Neither would supercars. The more narrow you make the car, the further in you have to jam the massive Viper tires, making leg room a luxury. Low and wide is the name of the game in the exotic world.

You did not mean to be any disrespect... You are not in a race car, so why pretend you are? Also, don't pretend our vipers are Lambo's as they are not (good and bad). Having said that, what are you describing in my tastes other than I preferred the car to be lighter and not as big? The vette is the same size/weight, so what draws you to that conclusion. I love the viper for all that it is, but mostly because it is about performance and the things required for that. Adding a couple inches of width is not anything you will ever notice on the track or street, so call it for what it is, you want it to look a particular way.

Lastly, don't lose all credibility in your argument by saying you are now worried about leg room. true exotics should not have any leg room and no disrespect, if that is what you want, maybe you should be in a cadillac.

At the end of the day, my view and attraction to the viper is it is a modern AC Cobra of its day and that car did not have to have pig proportions to look menacing and perform. You can take the viper to the track (conv, coupe or ACR) off the show room floor and it will take a beating over and over. That is why I own one. So, from all of that, I hope you can understand why I don't feel the need for a couple of unneeded inches added to the sides...

 

[VYPR BYT 94]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Agreed... low-n-wide is cool looking!

Bob is also right... extra width = extra weight.

So it seems we have many different views as to what is important - which is great because it's what makes the world go round.
Some are Looks 1st, Performance 2nd oriented and others are Performance 1st, Looks 2nd oriented. Others just want a great car they can afford.

I know they make a Fiero body kit Lambo look-alike. Anybody care to buy one? Didn't think so.

So it all boils down to that song by Queen "I want it All".

Need proof?
Who on this forum wasn't both proud and ecstatic when we took back the ring record?

Right now we have a re-birth of a special car and the engineers have given us a Viper whose horsepower-to-weight ratio is only topped by 2 cars on the planet!
Ferrari F12 at 3 times the cost - $$$
Bugatti Veyron at 20 times the cost - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That's a very impressive showing on the list considering bang for the buck. A wider stance will drop it on that list considerably - but some will say who cares it looks better while others will fight to keep performance integrity.

To me we still have Viper DNA with GenV to share with the world.
-Looks
-Performance
-Bang for the buck

Put them in your own order of importance.

Mike

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Good post Mike. The VCA has an opinionated crew. No surprise since we drive an opinionated car. LOL. Regardless of the few nay saying posters, I think the 2013 Gen V is going to sell out. Why? Because the early media response has been very positive and non Viper owners I know who have never, ever looked favorably on the Viper are talking about getting one. Some will think this is bad. But since there is a GTS version for them and an SRT version for ********* people, I think it's great.

 

[hou99gts]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Do we really think we needed the car to be wider? IMO, It is already kind of a pig on size anways and would have been great to be a bit shorter, lighter, etc. I totally love the new car and will get one, but I do wish it would have been even lighter (closer to 3000lbs). Never desired it to be wider as can't think of a practical reason for it. btw, if worried about it coming around on you, use the traction/stability controls that you now have available.

Seriously , the street version of the viper might be as close to a race car as most of us will get (other than the ACR), but lets not go crazy and ask for a race car that is no longer practical on the street. Any of you seriously concerned about the mechanical grip and aerodynamic grip possibilities for the street? I get the looks comments, but what I saw in person did not have me walking away asking for more width.

Some of us here track our cars occasionally and would enjoy the benefits of a wider car and the advantages that go along with it. I only want to buy a car that comes with a VIN, so a ACR-X, Comp Coupe, etc. is not an option. The Viper heritage has been "race car for the street" in my opinion, so why not make that option available to those who want it? The extra weight issue could be handled with a lightened interior if desired.

Please understand, I am not saying SRT should not make the car they have already shown us. I am just saying the ACR version (if they offer one) would be successful if designed similar to the GTS-R or Austin's chops above.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

For me the issue has been beat to death. I'll close with this. For any of you who doubt the "practical" application of the wide body work, please follow this link and look for the common denominator: http://www.google.com/search?q=gt2+...A&biw=1280&bih=881&sei=mlfPT7jcKu_22AX-x7zBDA

All GT2 cars are widebodies. If there were no practical application why would they be? The Viper already has wide tires. How about the new GTS-R. Apparently SRT isn't too concerned with fitting through narrow gaps while racing. Those extra 6" aren't for tire room. Why was the comp coupe wider if it wasn't practical?

Lastly, I don't think the SRT version is very ********. I think "stripped" is more like it. The ******** crowd wanted a ******** looking car. A new hood and lack of carbon fiber rear doesn't fix that. We need a loss leader SRT. Don't forget the value of it. Produce this car!

 

[Bobpantax]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I think posts 31 and 43 above intelligently covered the "practical" issue.

 

[Cobraken]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Since when did we start thinking the ACR would or should have a different body than the standard Viper?

 

[slitherv10]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Just thought I would repost this in this thread as it does have some relevance to this.....




As dodge did when they introduced and unveiled the 1992 dodge viper, I would have brought it in with a huge BANG as they did then.I would have made the new car much like the ACR and or the new Gen V race version car as far as body was concerned. More radical bulges like the GTS GEN 2 cars giving it that American muscle look and not the refined exotic car look. The reason the Viper caused such a huge splash in 1992 was because of the limits it set far behond what any other car manufacturer did at that time. Including Lambo,Ferrari,Porsche and the like. Nevermind Corvettes and mustangs. They were not even in the equation then with the 1992 ZR1 doing 5.5 ( 0-60) and 13.7 quarter mile times and the mustang GT with numbers my buick does today. The 1992 dodge viper was doing 4.6 and 12.9 quarter mile times !! That is what set the ball rolling and heads bopping for the dodge Viper!! This is why the dodge Viper is knwo for its brute unforgiving power !!..The muscle popping body and massive engine and wheels was something the other companies only thought about.
It did notstop there, every year when the others did more to catch up..we did that much more to push them back down. 1996 was another year with numbers and body style that took Viper to another level and left the competition even further back. The Viper continued to be seen and known as the one to catch. Never the one to beat. Not even close! With so many enthusiasts calling the car a brute an unforgiving. Trying to put the viper down. What does dodge do?...well we win numerous races and 24 hour lemans races at that, set new world records and times and shut them up to. Something no one was expecting.
Now, SRT had 2 years to think about how they can make a splash again and bring this Viper to the same glorified version as did its predecessors and what happens? Nothing. No one expected all that that the first cars brought to the table. It was a surprise to everyone. This time though, they did expect something. They did want to see what SRT would accomplish to further shut the competition up with and bring Viper up to where it belongs. The top of the food chain. Again !! ..............Not!!
I am not saying this car is not any better than what it was. Ofcourse it is. Better handling, suspension , more hp, more everything than its predecessors. What it didnt bring to the table is the big splash that it originaly and always did since. That is why I believe everyone was dissapointed.
If we followed the big splash the 92 Viper had over the others, then SRT should have given this viper 700 Hp and quarter mile times in the low 11's to high 10's. Made the car look like no other, and kept it as brutal and anxious as it always was.

I am hoping that SRT has something up thier sleeve in the next Car and beyond to fill the void this car has done to many. I am hoping this is just a temporary set back for something big to come. This was just not big enough for me. IMO !!

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Exactly. You need to put the car into perspective with the rest of the market. In 92/96/03 it was king of the world. In 2008, the competition was starting to catch up, but the Viper surged HARD, but still didn't make a splash like previous years because it wasnt far enough ahead of the ZR1.

Since Gen-4, the Viper has not been nearly "insane" enough. Look, I get it- the car needs to have a better interior and all of the nice things in order to attract the new buyers these days. It needed to have all of its "negative to most" areas removed. But, that does not mean that you cannot make the rest of the car INSANE!

I think everyone can agree that a 700 horsepower, GTSR Bodied Viper with the new interior would have been an absolutely ground-pounding, insanity provoking, sell-my-house-to-buy-one type car all over again.

SRT has all of the pieces, but gave us "good enough" instead. They did the same thing with the GTSR Concept Car from 2000. That car SHOULD have been the 2003. Think about it- the aftermarket has business models and parts based around trying to look more like that car.

Never will I understand why manufacturers produce fantastic prototypes, and then deliver watered down cars. You idiots, you are supposed to get BETTER when you go from Prototype to Production!

 

[TowDawg]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

"I think everyone can agree that a 700 horsepower, GTSR Bodied Viper with the new interior would have been an absolutely ground-pounding, insanity provoking, sell-my-house-to-buy-one type car all over again."

BINGO!!!

I like the new Viper, but that sentence summed it up perfectly.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I Agree 100% TowDawg

 

[Dom426h]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is a lot of carryover from the previous generation under the skin. This also helps drive cost down. IMO it can be done, and it would sell out quickly.

The windshield glass and side-view mirror pods are the only carryover body parts.
The engine block was reused but every component was revisited to maximize the potential "stock" power. Same trans with diff gearing and a new diff. Prob a couple other minor things...

http://vimeo.com/41436382

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

The windshield glass and side-view mirror pods are the only carryover body parts.
The engine block was reused but every component was revisited to maximize the potential "stock" power. Same trans with diff gearing and a new diff. Prob a couple other minor things...

http://vimeo.com/41436382

Not really. Under the skin, this car is more or less still a Gen-4, just like he said. The engine is basically identical, with Sodium filled valves and a new manifold. The trans and rear are the same, with new gearing- that's just a different ordering part number, not really cost related, and already avalable to Gen-4's. Suspension is largely the same, and the same goes for the frame, brakes, etc. The body is all new, and the interior is all new.

No matter how you slice it, it would be easy to make a Gen-4 and 5 drivetrain/chassis nearly identical with just the swapping of a few parts.

 

[Dom426h]

Final, what about the heads and cam?

I remember Ralph saying 50% stiffer chassis. I didnt think the simple X brace over the motor achived that so I assume the frame was redesigned. No?

 

[Dom426h]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Final,

also you left out the lighter forged pistons & stiffer pushrods....

you know? the things the power hungry guys are always bitcking about....

I remember Ralph saying 50% stiffer chassis. I didnt think the simple X brace over the motor achived that so I assume the frame was redesigned. No?

also 40lbs lighter. How could a chassis be 50% stiffer with a 40lb lighter frame without being resigned???

 

[Dom426h]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

I think everyone can agree that a 700 horsepower.....

Here we go with that 700hp talk again. They had to work around the existing engine platform to keep cost resonable. Talking with the SRT team at the NYC it sounded like they did all they reasonably could do to squeeze every last bit of power out of her. I for one am gratefull for that but would have been just as happy if they kept the same powerplant and slapped it in the new stiffer chassis and gorgeous body. Would have you preferred that they started from scratch with a more modern V10 design and tried to sell a more expensive Viper ? Your big in the aftermarket. Why cant you just rely on it to satisfy your needs and let SRT build the car that they are going to sell(and sell out...)

Never will I understand why manufacturers produce fantastic prototypes, and then deliver watered down cars. You idiots, you are supposed to get BETTER when you go from Prototype to Production!

Replace the word BETTER in your above statement with REALISTIC.

A "Concept" is just An idea, A vision. You cant waste too much time and resources on something untill you get the go-ahead. Once you get a positive response from the people that might buy your product then you have to talk to the engineers. They will tell you what is realistic. This is basic stuff that a businessman like yourself should understand.


I did find your Ra-Ra-Ra post amusing though: An "insane" 700hp GTS-R on the street would be nice.
"sell-my-house-to-buy-one type car " LMAO

 

[stranger355]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Not sure how I feel about SRT's honesty. On one hand I appreciate that they just come right out and say it, "this is the best we could do with the money we had." And on the other hand, I feel a bit disappointed. I don't care about the business case. I don't care about the compromises. You guys figure all that stuff out and still deliver what we want. If you don't then you just have a pile of very logical excuses.

 

[05Commemorative]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Not sure how I feel about SRT's honesty. On one hand I appreciate that they just come right out and say it, "this is the best we could do with the money we had." And on the other hand, I feel a bit disappointed. I don't care about the business case. I don't care about the compromises. You guys figure all that stuff out and still deliver what we want. If you don't then you just have a pile of very logical excuses.

Would you rather not know the decisions they had to factor in? To me, its just more info and insight to what you are buying and the people that make it. If you feel dissappointed, don't buy the car. If you like it, then buy it. If you haven't seen it yet in person, I think best to reserve judgement. along that line, since none of us have driven it, we probably should all reserve judgement.

 

[sween]

Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A

Big Dawg you made some great points and if the ACR comes out at 160K it will sell out in minutes

Make it mediocre and I guarantee it will happen..

I don't know how you can say the new viper is mediocre. Originally its was going to be based on an Alfa Romeo and possibly have a V8 engine. THAT would be mediocre.

The new viper has a clamshell hood, ridiculously sick interior with so much detail like when you red line a Red "Stryker" logo comes up, filled with carbon fiber, has bunch of scoops and whatnot to make it stand out from a crowd, can go 207 mph, you get the idea. Yeah Austin's photoshop does look better than the regular Gen V but to say the Gen V mediocre your just trying to dislike the car.

You talk about the Gen 2 vipers known for being wide but the Gen V is an inch wider (75.7 vs. 76.4).

I think it would be great if this widebody viper comes out but I feel alot of people on this forum just try and bash the Gen V viper without even looking into the car.

If this Widebody and 700 HP was such a no brainer don't you think they would of came out with it?