mnc2886
Enthusiast
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Remember that a camel is a horse designed by committee....
Remember that a camel is a horse designed by committee....
Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-ASAP
- Thread starter Drummerboy
- Start date
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
+
Hopefully Lemke makes this a reality if Dodge doesn't.
+
Hopefully Lemke makes this a reality if Dodge doesn't.
Drummerboy
Viper Owner
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
The Problem
Symptoms include - But not limited to:
Philosophy
What was once the champion for a vehicle with no compromise, no excuses and no apologies has become a product of concession - A design effort that now finds itself having to be defended vigorously by its creators and supporters.
Design
What was once the defibrillator that shocked life back into bland 90's American design now has an exterior that has been executed in what many say to be an safe, overly refined Italian look which possess tame evolutionary and feminine like qualities - most notably from the headlamps.
Power
What was once without question the king and leader of the pack in regards to power is now superseded by something that was never on is radar as a competitor - The Ford GT500 Mustang.
The Facts
Just scoured this specific thread and these are the documented numbers:
-Total posters on this thread: 33
-Posters that agree an exciting GTS-R like design should be used for ACR production: 22
-Posters who liked the design, but felt it's not feasible: 5
- Posters who remained Neutral: 2
-Party Poopers: 4
Conclusion
The facts from this thread, combined with the multitude of comments on Facebook, Twitter, automotive forums, automotive blogs & candid chat from people who have seen it in the flesh prove the truth to be painfully obvious.
Solutions
Kill the Viper
If the original Viper design philosophy can't be succesfully continued due to growing regulations, customer demands, etc - there is no shame in letting it die gracefully.
-SRT creates a new Halo vehicle based off the current chassis which allows for continued innovation and excitment/diversity of its product line. $Profit.
Keep the Viper
SRT/GTS
Keep the current car as the more refined, feminine, slim hipped and everybody's happy & holding hands compromise mobile for those who like to check the cupcake holder option and need a practical daily driver with seat warmers to maintain the silk ******* worn under their skirts at a balmy 76 degrees.
ACR
Give America it's hope back with an obnoxious and ostentatious, "too wide to be impracticable" low, wide and raw supercar for the guys that aren't afraid of admitting they like showing off, driving, and smelling like testosterone and gas.
This limited run vehicle will attract the people that can afford it to enjoy it (did the Ford GT find buyers? Yes), and will stand as a monument to the great American fukitall let's make this happen attitude that made this country bad-ass to begin with.
-Rob
The Problem
Symptoms include - But not limited to:
Philosophy
What was once the champion for a vehicle with no compromise, no excuses and no apologies has become a product of concession - A design effort that now finds itself having to be defended vigorously by its creators and supporters.
Design
What was once the defibrillator that shocked life back into bland 90's American design now has an exterior that has been executed in what many say to be an safe, overly refined Italian look which possess tame evolutionary and feminine like qualities - most notably from the headlamps.
Power
What was once without question the king and leader of the pack in regards to power is now superseded by something that was never on is radar as a competitor - The Ford GT500 Mustang.
The Facts
Just scoured this specific thread and these are the documented numbers:
-Total posters on this thread: 33
-Posters that agree an exciting GTS-R like design should be used for ACR production: 22
-Posters who liked the design, but felt it's not feasible: 5
- Posters who remained Neutral: 2
-Party Poopers: 4
Conclusion
The facts from this thread, combined with the multitude of comments on Facebook, Twitter, automotive forums, automotive blogs & candid chat from people who have seen it in the flesh prove the truth to be painfully obvious.
Solutions
Kill the Viper
If the original Viper design philosophy can't be succesfully continued due to growing regulations, customer demands, etc - there is no shame in letting it die gracefully.
-SRT creates a new Halo vehicle based off the current chassis which allows for continued innovation and excitment/diversity of its product line. $Profit.
Keep the Viper
SRT/GTS
Keep the current car as the more refined, feminine, slim hipped and everybody's happy & holding hands compromise mobile for those who like to check the cupcake holder option and need a practical daily driver with seat warmers to maintain the silk ******* worn under their skirts at a balmy 76 degrees.
ACR
Give America it's hope back with an obnoxious and ostentatious, "too wide to be impracticable" low, wide and raw supercar for the guys that aren't afraid of admitting they like showing off, driving, and smelling like testosterone and gas.
This limited run vehicle will attract the people that can afford it to enjoy it (did the Ford GT find buyers? Yes), and will stand as a monument to the great American fukitall let's make this happen attitude that made this country bad-ass to begin with.
-Rob
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Well done Drummerboy
Well done Drummerboy
sween
Enthusiast
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
If SRT wants to remain true to the viper formula, power should be the biggest problem. Viper has always had the most power, not because it needed it but because it had bragging rights. To see a mustang have more HP is disappointing to say the least.
I don't see what you mean by the conclusion though. The majority of car media (not talking AOL autos) like magazines and Autoblog really like the viper. This viper will probably sell alot better than the previous years.
This whole too wide thing has never been the viper formula. I don't get where people are coming up with this.
I'm all for the widebody ACR I just don't see the majority of people on this forums complaints with the regular Gen V.
If SRT wants to remain true to the viper formula, power should be the biggest problem. Viper has always had the most power, not because it needed it but because it had bragging rights. To see a mustang have more HP is disappointing to say the least.
I don't see what you mean by the conclusion though. The majority of car media (not talking AOL autos) like magazines and Autoblog really like the viper. This viper will probably sell alot better than the previous years.
This whole too wide thing has never been the viper formula. I don't get where people are coming up with this.
I'm all for the widebody ACR I just don't see the majority of people on this forums complaints with the regular Gen V.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Could you imagine the following. Road & Track (or publication of your choice) does their first road/track test of the GenV Viper later this year. They go on and on about the improvements, how great it handles, performance, interior, quality, design...,
But then they write the line the line of "our only wish was for it to have had 700hp (so it could have bragging rights over a mustang) and be a couple inches wider. We think that would have made it great and sell much better!"
See how silly that line is when actually put in print.
Could you imagine the following. Road & Track (or publication of your choice) does their first road/track test of the GenV Viper later this year. They go on and on about the improvements, how great it handles, performance, interior, quality, design...,
But then they write the line the line of "our only wish was for it to have had 700hp (so it could have bragging rights over a mustang) and be a couple inches wider. We think that would have made it great and sell much better!"
See how silly that line is when actually put in print.
SnakeBitten
Enthusiast
- Joined
- May 18, 2001
- Posts
- 2,550
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Silly to you. But then again you pan every opinion on this site that doesnt fit with your viewpoint. How boring the world would be if everyone only had your viewpoint.
Anyway its no different than the magazines panning the Viper for no back seat, no nannies etc because the competition has them. So if they did complain in print about the Viper needing more hp than the Mustang, it would still be complaining about something the viper doesn't have but that the competition has, just like they have always done.
Silly to you. But then again you pan every opinion on this site that doesnt fit with your viewpoint. How boring the world would be if everyone only had your viewpoint.
Anyway its no different than the magazines panning the Viper for no back seat, no nannies etc because the competition has them. So if they did complain in print about the Viper needing more hp than the Mustang, it would still be complaining about something the viper doesn't have but that the competition has, just like they have always done.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Hope all the nutswingers are actually buying a NEW car instead of just flapping the pie hole.
Waiting a few years to get a used one doesn't help SRT's bottom line.
Hope all the nutswingers are actually buying a NEW car instead of just flapping the pie hole.
Waiting a few years to get a used one doesn't help SRT's bottom line.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
If they would have followed the Ford GT lead, none of the above would be a concern. They are putting out a solid car, but with the potential this car has with very subtle modifications, it is a shame to read people talking about buying used years down the road. If it was an incredible effort like Ford put together, waiting would have cost you more than buying new.
If they would have followed the Ford GT lead, none of the above would be a concern. They are putting out a solid car, but with the potential this car has with very subtle modifications, it is a shame to read people talking about buying used years down the road. If it was an incredible effort like Ford put together, waiting would have cost you more than buying new.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Good point SnakeBitten.
Jon, the powerhungry nutswingers dont make any sense to me. Why complain about the stock power? Arnt these the guys that slap forced induction on their Viper so it is the fastest thing on paper? This Gen5 could come with a Gen2 motor in it and be boosted to 1000+ hp. Whats to complain about? Either way you can eventually get what you want.
It is beyond me how a number on a piece of paper could be more important than the high probability that the new Viper could be faster than the GT500 in every catagory on the street, strip, & roadcourse.
Good point SnakeBitten.
Jon, the powerhungry nutswingers dont make any sense to me. Why complain about the stock power? Arnt these the guys that slap forced induction on their Viper so it is the fastest thing on paper? This Gen5 could come with a Gen2 motor in it and be boosted to 1000+ hp. Whats to complain about? Either way you can eventually get what you want.
It is beyond me how a number on a piece of paper could be more important than the high probability that the new Viper could be faster than the GT500 in every catagory on the street, strip, & roadcourse.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Some random thoughts:
- Austin you are a complete bastard! I mean that in the nicest way... I was super excited to get the new Viper until I saw your ACR PS... Now I'm debating whether I should wait until the ACR comes out, though there are no guarantees on how it will look or its specs - if the ACR looks anything remotely like your black version of the ACR, I'd sell a kidney or two for that.
- While I can understand the calls for 700+ hp, I have to say that the horsepower wars have already escalated into the stratosphere... Even at 700, your only bragging rights are relative, not absolute: horsepower to weight. Try explaining that to a girl in a bar Given that the 911 Turbo S, and GTR will presumably beat the Gen V viper 0-60, and in the quarter mile, both with less power, I don't think more horsepower is the be all, end all for the Viper's success, going forward - at the present level it usually matters most for arm-chair racers and magazine comparos/shoot-outs. Enthusiasts will love the car no matter how much power it puts out in comparison to its peers...
I sold my heavily modded 997 turbo with 610 hp, because I wanted something with the right balance between performance, uniqueness, and rawness. I hated seeing 911s all over the place. I think the SRT team has done a great job in bringing a product to market in keeping with its roots, while addressing its pain points - especially given the dark clouds that they had to operate under in order to bring this dream to light. That kind of passion really appeals to me... no matter how we may gripe about what we would have done differently, I, for one, am so grateful that there is even a viper to be griping about.
- On width - after having seen a few supercars in person, I must say that the low and wide route is really visually stunning. I do wish that they had made the rear end of the viper a touch wider. It looks somewhat like a 'fat cobra' with a wider front than rear.
- Lastly, I'd have to imagine the aftermarket will deliver sufficient mods for power (and hopefully for looks) to allow for something approaching what the ACR will be, albeit sooner (for those of us who can't wait - which is the camp I am leaning towards)
Some random thoughts:
- Austin you are a complete bastard! I mean that in the nicest way...
I was super excited to get the new Viper until I saw your ACR PS... Now I'm debating whether I should wait until the ACR comes out, though there are no guarantees on how it will look or its specs - if the ACR looks anything remotely like your black version of the ACR, I'd sell a kidney or two for that.- While I can understand the calls for 700+ hp, I have to say that the horsepower wars have already escalated into the stratosphere... Even at 700, your only bragging rights are relative, not absolute: horsepower to weight. Try explaining that to a girl in a bar
Given that the 911 Turbo S, and GTR will presumably beat the Gen V viper 0-60, and in the quarter mile, both with less power, I don't think more horsepower is the be all, end all for the Viper's success, going forward - at the present level it usually matters most for arm-chair racers and magazine comparos/shoot-outs. Enthusiasts will love the car no matter how much power it puts out in comparison to its peers... I sold my heavily modded 997 turbo with 610 hp, because I wanted something with the right balance between performance, uniqueness, and rawness. I hated seeing 911s all over the place. I think the SRT team has done a great job in bringing a product to market in keeping with its roots, while addressing its pain points - especially given the dark clouds that they had to operate under in order to bring this dream to light. That kind of passion really appeals to me... no matter how we may gripe about what we would have done differently, I, for one, am so grateful that there is even a viper to be griping about.
- On width - after having seen a few supercars in person, I must say that the low and wide route is really visually stunning. I do wish that they had made the rear end of the viper a touch wider. It looks somewhat like a 'fat cobra' with a wider front than rear.
- Lastly, I'd have to imagine the aftermarket will deliver sufficient mods for power (and hopefully for looks) to allow for something approaching what the ACR will be, albeit sooner (for those of us who can't wait - which is the camp I am leaning towards)
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Tucker,
2 differing responses for you:
A. the limited run of FordGT's is a diff situation. That is not what SRT is going for at all. If anything they want to move closer to the "model" of the higher production sportscars. SRT wants More snakes on the road. Not less.
B. Theoretically SRT could make a "Super Viper" and sell a lmited run of them for like $150K. I think they would sell.
However, If i was SRT and considering doing that i would first be analizing how exactly this would effect overall sales of the "base" Vipers.
Tucker,
2 differing responses for you:
A. the limited run of FordGT's is a diff situation. That is not what SRT is going for at all. If anything they want to move closer to the "model" of the higher production sportscars. SRT wants More snakes on the road. Not less.
B. Theoretically SRT could make a "Super Viper" and sell a lmited run of them for like $150K. I think they would sell.
However, If i was SRT and considering doing that i would first be analizing how exactly this would effect overall sales of the "base" Vipers.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
What about the heads? I haven't seen anything indicating any change other than Sodium filled valves.
I did forget about the cam, however, this is simply a re-grind on the 5-separate phaser sections, and again, this could be dropped into a Gen-4 without a problem. I think you are confusing "revolution" with "evolution". These are not groundbreaking changes, nor will they affect costs in any measurable amount.
I think you would be surprised what just a few additional braces in the right places can do for frame stiffness. Even with a few changes and additions, all information points to it being largely the same structure.
What about the heads? I haven't seen anything indicating any change other than Sodium filled valves.
I did forget about the cam, however, this is simply a re-grind on the 5-separate phaser sections, and again, this could be dropped into a Gen-4 without a problem. I think you are confusing "revolution" with "evolution". These are not groundbreaking changes, nor will they affect costs in any measurable amount.
I think you would be surprised what just a few additional braces in the right places can do for frame stiffness. Even with a few changes and additions, all information points to it being largely the same structure.
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Again, both of these items are readily available, NOT new developments. They are both more than likely pulls from the ACRX. We are talking peanuts in price variations here, and zero development costs to speak of. These things virtually all already existed. Also, as I have said a bazillion times, just because they are "forged" doesn't mean that they are nearly strong enough for any kind of duty that people associate with a forged part. Forging it just a process, not a design or material.
How could a frame be 40 pounds less and 50% stiffer? Easily. You shed a few pointless braces and replace them with a few better placed units. Or, you play a game on numbers, and add a stronger roof structure to the car bumping the chassis stiffness, and not include it in the frame weight. Or pull the weight out of the roof/firewall and claim it as frame weight... lots of loopholes. Remember we are "supposedly" comparing coupe to coupe here... for all we know they compared coupe to vert or something else to make the numbers better. WAY too early to speculate much this topic.
Final,
also you left out the lighter forged pistons & stiffer pushrods....
you know? the things the power hungry guys are always bitcking about....
also 40lbs lighter. How could a chassis be 50% stiffer with a 40lb lighter frame without being resigned???
Again, both of these items are readily available, NOT new developments. They are both more than likely pulls from the ACRX. We are talking peanuts in price variations here, and zero development costs to speak of. These things virtually all already existed. Also, as I have said a bazillion times, just because they are "forged" doesn't mean that they are nearly strong enough for any kind of duty that people associate with a forged part. Forging it just a process, not a design or material.
How could a frame be 40 pounds less and 50% stiffer? Easily. You shed a few pointless braces and replace them with a few better placed units. Or, you play a game on numbers, and add a stronger roof structure to the car bumping the chassis stiffness, and not include it in the frame weight. Or pull the weight out of the roof/firewall and claim it as frame weight... lots of loopholes. Remember we are "supposedly" comparing coupe to coupe here... for all we know they compared coupe to vert or something else to make the numbers better. WAY too early to speculate much this topic.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
I think you are losing sight of the fact that markets are relative. Just because the Viper has a "lot of power" doesn't mean ANYTHING for bragging rights when it is surrounded by a sea of similar power numbers these days. Since the Viper isnt at the top of the Power Pile anymore, it should have had a body to die for like the GTSR to at least make it even more unique and not just look like a retro version. This is great for the Gen-2 nutswingers that havent let the Gen-2 body design go, but it does not help any of us progressive types that wanted to see a body evolution or revolution... not a leap into the past.
Power wise, I for one expect that this car will be severely underrated. However, I also think that it was a bad move for them to do so. These days, numbers sell cars, and they should have displayed such. With how easy it has proven to be in the aftermarket to move the Gen-4's into the 700+ range and still remain "test-ably compliant", there is NO WAY SRT could not have done the same. I understand all too well the problems of emissions compliance, but it is not rocket science for an OEM to make a few changes like that.
You are also forgetting that a "concept" is what takes all of the development costs- it is CHEAP by comparison to copy it! They already have the GTSR body, and they will already be producing its parts. It is not a big deal to mass produce something that is already in production and designed. I would say that the response is more than "there" on the topic. Everyone loves the GTSR, and the regular body has been luke-warm. Any intelligent group of business officials would produce the car that has the most appeal to buyers they hope to sell to. These are basic business concepts as well. Manufacturers regularly forget this while trying to fit projects into certain budget constraints, and it becomes a "well guys, we have to lose the widebody kit so we can afford the new interior". Where is the guy in the back of the room saying "Are you ****ting me?!? Why not charge 1K more and give them BOTH. We aren't making a Prius here guys, and we already have the bodywork available!"
The Viper is not and has never been a car that should be built within a strict budget- it should be flexible based on response.
Here we go with that 700hp talk again. They had to work around the existing engine platform to keep cost resonable. Talking with the SRT team at the NYC it sounded like they did all they reasonably could do to squeeze every last bit of power out of her. I for one am gratefull for that but would have been just as happy if they kept the same powerplant and slapped it in the new stiffer chassis and gorgeous body. Would have you preferred that they started from scratch with a more modern V10 design and tried to sell a more expensive Viper ? Your big in the aftermarket. Why cant you just rely on it to satisfy your needs and let SRT build the car that they are going to sell(and sell out...)
Replace the word BETTER in your above statement with REALISTIC.
A "Concept" is just An idea, A vision. You cant waste too much time and resources on something untill you get the go-ahead. Once you get a positive response from the people that might buy your product then you have to talk to the engineers. They will tell you what is realistic. This is basic stuff that a businessman like yourself should understand.
I did find your Ra-Ra-Ra post amusing though: An "insane" 700hp GTS-R on the street would be nice.
"sell-my-house-to-buy-one type car " LMAO
I think you are losing sight of the fact that markets are relative. Just because the Viper has a "lot of power" doesn't mean ANYTHING for bragging rights when it is surrounded by a sea of similar power numbers these days. Since the Viper isnt at the top of the Power Pile anymore, it should have had a body to die for like the GTSR to at least make it even more unique and not just look like a retro version. This is great for the Gen-2 nutswingers that havent let the Gen-2 body design go, but it does not help any of us progressive types that wanted to see a body evolution or revolution... not a leap into the past.
Power wise, I for one expect that this car will be severely underrated. However, I also think that it was a bad move for them to do so. These days, numbers sell cars, and they should have displayed such. With how easy it has proven to be in the aftermarket to move the Gen-4's into the 700+ range and still remain "test-ably compliant", there is NO WAY SRT could not have done the same. I understand all too well the problems of emissions compliance, but it is not rocket science for an OEM to make a few changes like that.
You are also forgetting that a "concept" is what takes all of the development costs- it is CHEAP by comparison to copy it! They already have the GTSR body, and they will already be producing its parts. It is not a big deal to mass produce something that is already in production and designed. I would say that the response is more than "there" on the topic. Everyone loves the GTSR, and the regular body has been luke-warm. Any intelligent group of business officials would produce the car that has the most appeal to buyers they hope to sell to. These are basic business concepts as well. Manufacturers regularly forget this while trying to fit projects into certain budget constraints, and it becomes a "well guys, we have to lose the widebody kit so we can afford the new interior". Where is the guy in the back of the room saying "Are you ****ting me?!? Why not charge 1K more and give them BOTH. We aren't making a Prius here guys, and we already have the bodywork available!"
The Viper is not and has never been a car that should be built within a strict budget- it should be flexible based on response.
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
When you factor in how much better the design could be from a visual standpoint for short money in the grand scheme, it comes in as mediocre in my book. Sure, it has a lot of do-dads now and a lot of quality trimming, and refinement throughout. I have ZERO bone to pick with any of this. Props to them for that, its about time. The problem is, all they have done is bring the Viper to where it should have been in this regard to be on par with the market expectations of the current day, and the horsepower and body are no longer extreme enough to scream insanity like they once were able to do from a relative standpoint.
I think the Viper matches the new Jeep SRT in this regard. Lots of trimmings, little soul.
Big Dawg you made some great points and if the ACR comes out at 160K it will sell out in minutes
I don't know how you can say the new viper is mediocre. Originally its was going to be based on an Alfa Romeo and possibly have a V8 engine. THAT would be mediocre.
The new viper has a clamshell hood, ridiculously sick interior with so much detail like when you red line a Red "Stryker" logo comes up, filled with carbon fiber, has bunch of scoops and whatnot to make it stand out from a crowd, can go 207 mph, you get the idea. Yeah Austin's photoshop does look better than the regular Gen V but to say the Gen V mediocre your just trying to dislike the car.
You talk about the Gen 2 vipers known for being wide but the Gen V is an inch wider (75.7 vs. 76.4).
I think it would be great if this widebody viper comes out but I feel alot of people on this forum just try and bash the Gen V viper without even looking into the car.
If this Widebody and 700 HP was such a no brainer don't you think they would of came out with it?
When you factor in how much better the design could be from a visual standpoint for short money in the grand scheme, it comes in as mediocre in my book. Sure, it has a lot of do-dads now and a lot of quality trimming, and refinement throughout. I have ZERO bone to pick with any of this. Props to them for that, its about time. The problem is, all they have done is bring the Viper to where it should have been in this regard to be on par with the market expectations of the current day, and the horsepower and body are no longer extreme enough to scream insanity like they once were able to do from a relative standpoint.
I think the Viper matches the new Jeep SRT in this regard. Lots of trimmings, little soul.
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Higher production means cheaper costs per unit. The more they produce, the more thay can do for the same dollars. Again, this further shoots the "development cost theory" right in the foot for that wide-body platform.
By making a limited run, you just make a crazy expensive car, no benefit to the rest, and a tarnishing of the "standard" run of cars. You may as well just make a different model altogether. This is the exact problem that a V8 version would cause.
Higher production means cheaper costs per unit. The more they produce, the more thay can do for the same dollars. Again, this further shoots the "development cost theory" right in the foot for that wide-body platform.
By making a limited run, you just make a crazy expensive car, no benefit to the rest, and a tarnishing of the "standard" run of cars. You may as well just make a different model altogether. This is the exact problem that a V8 version would cause.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
True. However, there are some car-guys(usually the powerhungry nutswinger type) that have no loyalty. Some of these are among us like a wolf in enthusiast clothing...
I'll never forget this former Viper owner who helped me pre-purchase inspect my Viper. I asked him what he would like for his next car/Viper. He said he's been wanting to get a 2004 Mustang Cobra TwinTurbo. How his eyes lit up when he said TWIN TURBO I immediatly then realized that i was no-longer talking to what i thought was a Viper enthusiest rather just a powerhungry Joe Shmo.
+1
True. However, there are some car-guys(usually the powerhungry nutswinger type) that have no loyalty. Some of these are among us like a wolf in enthusiast clothing...
I'll never forget this former Viper owner who helped me pre-purchase inspect my Viper. I asked him what he would like for his next car/Viper. He said he's been wanting to get a 2004 Mustang Cobra TwinTurbo. How his eyes lit up when he said TWIN TURBO I immediatly then realized that i was no-longer talking to what i thought was a Viper enthusiest rather just a powerhungry Joe Shmo.
+1
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
That is my suggestion. ACR like what Austin posted. The base model for the tame crowd. ACR would be limited enough to hold its own.
That is my suggestion. ACR like what Austin posted. The base model for the tame crowd. ACR would be limited enough to hold its own.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
ACRs, because of the additional down force, etc., have a lower top speed and do worse in the standing mile than a "normal" coupe. The word "tame" is a relative term based on the type of activity involved. After reading the posts on this forum for more than ten years, it appears to me that most owners have never been on a drag strip, road course or standing mile. It would be interesting to determine how many of those requesting the "monster" ACR with 700 HP would actually use the car for its intended purpose.
ACRs, because of the additional down force, etc., have a lower top speed and do worse in the standing mile than a "normal" coupe. The word "tame" is a relative term based on the type of activity involved. After reading the posts on this forum for more than ten years, it appears to me that most owners have never been on a drag strip, road course or standing mile. It would be interesting to determine how many of those requesting the "monster" ACR with 700 HP would actually use the car for its intended purpose.
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
......I will......
......I will......
hou99gts
Enthusiast
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
X2, thus the reason I am an ACR owner currently.
X2, thus the reason I am an ACR owner currently.
Vic
VCA Venom Member
- Joined
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
I don't agree with the OP at all. I like what SRT did, and don't want any changes. I've got money to buy one, providing they don't conceed to the study hall stylists.
I don't agree with the OP at all. I like what SRT did, and don't want any changes. I've got money to buy one, providing they don't conceed to the study hall stylists.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
BAM. Exactly. The point here is the light years of separation between the GTS and GTS-R. The GTS is a cute car no doubt, but the GTS-R is menacing. Just a slightly wider body and the cars goes from nice to jaw dropping unfrickenbelievable.
BAM. Exactly. The point here is the light years of separation between the GTS and GTS-R. The GTS is a cute car no doubt, but the GTS-R is menacing. Just a slightly wider body and the cars goes from nice to jaw dropping unfrickenbelievable.
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Who cares what they do with it.
At least if they buy one they are supporting SRT with their dollars instead of just flapping the pie hole in "support".
Who cares what they do with it.
At least if they buy one they are supporting SRT with their dollars instead of just flapping the pie hole in "support".
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Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Agreed. And to answer the original question...
Probably more than the people who use their supercars the way the were intended. How many private F50s, Enzos, MC12s, Zondas, Koenigseggs, CLK GTRs, 911 GT1s, etc. etc. are tracked regularly? VERY few. Well then why would anyone want to own a completely impractical and uncomfortable race car on the street? Simple. BECAUSE IT LOOKS BAD ASS!
Agreed. And to answer the original question...
Probably more than the people who use their supercars the way the were intended. How many private F50s, Enzos, MC12s, Zondas, Koenigseggs, CLK GTRs, 911 GT1s, etc. etc. are tracked regularly? VERY few. Well then why would anyone want to own a completely impractical and uncomfortable race car on the street? Simple. BECAUSE IT LOOKS BAD ASS!
JoelW
Enthusiast
Re: Someone please forward this message to Ralph Giles and the rest of the SRT Team-A
Boy, and I thought I got a lot of "crap" when I asked for a modern V8 in place of the V10!!
Boy, and I thought I got a lot of "crap" when I asked for a modern V8 in place of the V10!!
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