Spark Plug Recommendation
- Thread starter GR8_ASP
- Start date
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Posts
- 3,471
- Reaction score
- 2
Check the archives. I asked the spark plug question about 6 months ago and got some good answers,though I have stuck with the stock plugs, I will likely go with the Denso Iridiums, one heat range cooler.
ARMORGOD
Enthusiast
Ron,
VelocityPerformance put in some colder plugs on my car and the engine did NOT dig them. The tech that was working on my car said that the V-10 really does not work well with anything other than the stock plugs. If you want to call and ask him for the details of "why" just ask for Andy.
VelocityPerformance put in some colder plugs on my car and the engine did NOT dig them. The tech that was working on my car said that the V-10 really does not work well with anything other than the stock plugs. If you want to call and ask him for the details of "why" just ask for Andy.
Skip White
Enthusiast
Ron, as a rule of thumb, cars with such power adders will do better on a plug one step cooler than oem, but their are so many factors. If your dogging around in heavy summer traffic, spirited driving much of the time, and where is your F/A ratio at. Experiment, and you will get it right. If the plug is to cold, you will be fouling them out, and if it's to hot, you can destroy the engine. I'd rather border line fouling, as you can go through a couple gears, and clear it out, but to cool can also cause the car to never run right. Excessive fouling is not really good, so just learn to read the plugs. To hot, leads you toward detonation, and if these cars are running with excessive timing, and somewhat lean, you sure don't want to add the final straw.
Another recommendation, is go with a bit smaller gap, and did you know MSD has a CDI system for the Viper, and that is really a great upgrade on forced induction cars.
As far a brand of plugs, well I don't know, but I've heard that platinum tip plugs have a cooler spark kernal, and are not desirable. We build $45,000.00 promod engines, and they often use a $1.00 spark plug. Circle track cars also.
Platinum is great for longjevity, on cars that have hard to reach plugs,(LS1, Ford F-150's)
Round track cars run very cool plugs, as fouling is nothing to worry about at continuous high RPM.
Experiment, pull the plugs after a night of crusing, SRT plugs can be removed so quickly. Hard starting is a sign of loaded up plugs, that are to cool.
STAY AWAY FROM TRENDY PLUGS WITH FUNNY LOOKING TIPS UNLESS YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THEM!
Skip White
ps, good topic
Another recommendation, is go with a bit smaller gap, and did you know MSD has a CDI system for the Viper, and that is really a great upgrade on forced induction cars.
As far a brand of plugs, well I don't know, but I've heard that platinum tip plugs have a cooler spark kernal, and are not desirable. We build $45,000.00 promod engines, and they often use a $1.00 spark plug. Circle track cars also.
Platinum is great for longjevity, on cars that have hard to reach plugs,(LS1, Ford F-150's)
Round track cars run very cool plugs, as fouling is nothing to worry about at continuous high RPM.
Experiment, pull the plugs after a night of crusing, SRT plugs can be removed so quickly. Hard starting is a sign of loaded up plugs, that are to cool.
STAY AWAY FROM TRENDY PLUGS WITH FUNNY LOOKING TIPS UNLESS YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THEM!
Skip White
ps, good topic
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
i tried drnso and they were lousy as they do not have an extended tip. I have 10 denso iridium IK16 / 5303 with 20 miles on them. I also hae 12 IK20 / 5304 new in the box. Email me at [email protected] if you want them. I have been using champion double platnum 7034 plugs and they are real smooth. I will try bosch platnum +4's soon to see which is better.
Viper SRT: The Paxton installation manual recommends .032" for the spark plug gap. " When driving on non-publicroads i.e racing/high RPM it is recommended that the plugs be gapped down to .032". I believe if you are running a SC you will be running high RPM, so the point is mute; 030" might be too aggressive. The manual also states " replace all spark plugs -" DLM changes to a colder plug when they do the Paxton Upgrade.
I just started to note a lot of cold start stumble, indicating either fouling or gap growth. I will change plugs this weekend and find out for sure.
Found a benny due to the Viper part rarity. I had to order a set as they were not in stock. They ended up giving me 12 (3 full boxes) for the price i=of 10. Woo hoo! I did get the stock Champions with no change in heat range. When I change them if I find the gap has increased or any signs of over heating I will change to a cooler plug later.
I did run a track day which should have been punishing to the plugs, with much more WOT than possible on the street.
Found a benny due to the Viper part rarity. I had to order a set as they were not in stock. They ended up giving me 12 (3 full boxes) for the price i=of 10. Woo hoo! I did get the stock Champions with no change in heat range. When I change them if I find the gap has increased or any signs of over heating I will change to a cooler plug later.
I did run a track day which should have been punishing to the plugs, with much more WOT than possible on the street.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Hey Skip, your statement "STAY AWAY FROM TRENDY PLUGS WITH FUNNY LOOKING TIPS UNLESS YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THEM!", is this aimed at the Splitfire triple platium plugs?
Skip White
Enthusiast
I really don't know about the Spitfire's, but there are so many plug companies making outragious claims.
I've heard to many negatives and few positives about these.
Often you will hear about a person going to so and so plug and raving about how much better his vehicle ran, well it's usually no more than a plug temp change, or that his old plugs were wide gagged due to burn down This is very common.
I bought a Cady with about 85k on the clock, and the so called 100k platinum plug tips were showing about 25k'ths over oem from burn down, and the car would hardly run.
Go oem on the plugs or use the advice of tuners such as Dan Craigen, etc, as they are highly experianced in this.
Gap and temp range is mostly what it's all about, oh, change plugs every year or so.
The factory is after efficiency, hp, drivability, fuel mileage, and longevity on certain cars, so it stands to reason they are allways going to run a decent plug.
I've heard to many negatives and few positives about these.
Often you will hear about a person going to so and so plug and raving about how much better his vehicle ran, well it's usually no more than a plug temp change, or that his old plugs were wide gagged due to burn down This is very common.
I bought a Cady with about 85k on the clock, and the so called 100k platinum plug tips were showing about 25k'ths over oem from burn down, and the car would hardly run.
Go oem on the plugs or use the advice of tuners such as Dan Craigen, etc, as they are highly experianced in this.
Gap and temp range is mostly what it's all about, oh, change plugs every year or so.
The factory is after efficiency, hp, drivability, fuel mileage, and longevity on certain cars, so it stands to reason they are allways going to run a decent plug.
Viper SRT: I just pulled one of my spark plugs; the plugs used for my Paxton upgrade are burning Level II;BKRTE, NGKs; they are set at .032". You might try these; By the way looking over the Paxton manual last night on page V it cautions against using Platinum plugs. The ones installed on my car are just regular resistor type convention plugs. They are appear to work great and I found no fouling when I visually inspected the one plug.
Are you running a Split Second or a VEC II? Also, what pulley are you using? How many pounds of boost? What spark plug wires are you using? Are they on properly? What is the gap on your existing plugs? What fuel are you using - how much octane? Do you have a voltage boosted fuel pump or a new, stronger fuel pump or pumps? Did you just get a bad tank of gas? How many miles on the car since the supercharger was put on? Have you used the same plugs or changed them during this period? How many degrees is your timing ********? Did the stumble happen after a number of speed runs? After you respond to all of the forgoing questioons, maybe, just maybe, a diagnosis is possible.
VIPER D
Viper Owner
A good idea is to change the plugs every oil change or at the very least every other oil change on a blown car!!!!
This way you can catch a problem b/f you have to replace the motor.
vd..
Skip White
Enthusiast
Changing the plugs more often will give you a chance to read them.
As D, says, S/C cars should do this more often.
What I said about gap is important, but the Viper runs a fairly low gap compared to many other cars, so we may be close to perfect where we are. Experiment, as I say.
You can also watch for signs of detonation on a plug. The aluminum will splatter on them. Very noticable if you look closely, but I'm not sure if a hyperutectic piston will do give this tell tale.
As D, says, S/C cars should do this more often.
What I said about gap is important, but the Viper runs a fairly low gap compared to many other cars, so we may be close to perfect where we are. Experiment, as I say.
You can also watch for signs of detonation on a plug. The aluminum will splatter on them. Very noticable if you look closely, but I'm not sure if a hyperutectic piston will do give this tell tale.
Just got back from a weeks vacation so sorry about the delayed response. I am running the standard Paxton setup (Split Second, stock Paxton cal, original spark plugs, original plug wires, stock Paxton fuel system, etc). The stumble worsened during the week and then improved. I was not able to check or change the plugs this week but will do so in a day or 2. The stumble is during initial closed loop operation. Add enough throttle to change it to open loop and the stumble disappears. It seems to be the passenger side bank as most of the afterfire noise and missing is on the drivers side (only SRT owners will get this). Strangely enough it does not miss at idle or off idle. Only at low load part throttle when cold. After a few seconds at higher load there is no sign of a stumble anymore.
I was starting to think there may be some pcv related issue as I had a track day a few weeks back. But I loosened the supercharger outlet hose and got no signs of fluids.
I will change plugs in a couple days and let you know what I find. Stock Champions gapped to 0.032".
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Posts
- 3,471
- Reaction score
- 2
Viper SRT,
I was experiencing the same minor stumble when cold. I too thought it was a spark plug problem. Pulled a few plugs and they looked OK. Kept looking. Finally one day at the drags I noticed an oil "puking" problem. PCV valve was not installed upright as it should be. The small "L" shaped rubber hose couplers on the crank case breathers are very flimsy, not designed for the pressure of supercharging. I replaced both of these with more sturdy hoses and clamps. Check your PCV valve on the passenger side, rear of valve cover. I straightened mine up with a slight rework, some new hoses and clamps and everything is back to normal. Prior to my repairs, I also noticed a considerable loss in power. Car is running like a ***** ape again.
Good luck.
Let us know what you find.
Dan
I was experiencing the same minor stumble when cold. I too thought it was a spark plug problem. Pulled a few plugs and they looked OK. Kept looking. Finally one day at the drags I noticed an oil "puking" problem. PCV valve was not installed upright as it should be. The small "L" shaped rubber hose couplers on the crank case breathers are very flimsy, not designed for the pressure of supercharging. I replaced both of these with more sturdy hoses and clamps. Check your PCV valve on the passenger side, rear of valve cover. I straightened mine up with a slight rework, some new hoses and clamps and everything is back to normal. Prior to my repairs, I also noticed a considerable loss in power. Car is running like a ***** ape again.
Good luck.
Let us know what you find.
Dan
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Posts
- 3,471
- Reaction score
- 2
Viper SRT,
Yep, yours looks perfect. It looks to be clamped at all three locations, as it should be. When I had the roller rockers installed with the necessary valve cover spacers, the shop turned the PCV valve upside down. It was still in line correctly, just upside down. It really messed with the engine more than you can believe. The engine began puking oil, the supplemental fuel pumps didn't come on as they should (this is apparently controlled by vacuum) and the car ran like it had lost about 100 hp, including poor cold start / operation at low load.
I wish this could have been your problem too, as it was an easy fix.
Next suggestions:
Does your PCV valve operate correctly or is it perhaps "stuck open or closed". This is easy to check, just pull it and see if it closes when you put your finger over it. It should also "rattle" when you shake it.
Is the line that goes to the PCV valve clamped tightly to the bottom of the intake manifold? It's at the bottom front. You can access it from the passenger side just behind the connection to the intake.
Is there oil in your air box, coming from the breather on the driver's side? I had this issue before I set up my "puke" can.
It will be interesting to know the results of your spark plug change.
Good luck,
Dan
Yep, yours looks perfect. It looks to be clamped at all three locations, as it should be. When I had the roller rockers installed with the necessary valve cover spacers, the shop turned the PCV valve upside down. It was still in line correctly, just upside down. It really messed with the engine more than you can believe. The engine began puking oil, the supplemental fuel pumps didn't come on as they should (this is apparently controlled by vacuum) and the car ran like it had lost about 100 hp, including poor cold start / operation at low load.
I wish this could have been your problem too, as it was an easy fix.
Next suggestions:
Does your PCV valve operate correctly or is it perhaps "stuck open or closed". This is easy to check, just pull it and see if it closes when you put your finger over it. It should also "rattle" when you shake it.
Is the line that goes to the PCV valve clamped tightly to the bottom of the intake manifold? It's at the bottom front. You can access it from the passenger side just behind the connection to the intake.
Is there oil in your air box, coming from the breather on the driver's side? I had this issue before I set up my "puke" can.
It will be interesting to know the results of your spark plug change.
Good luck,
Dan
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
Listen to Skip White you guys. I have tried every brand spark plug out there and all the different style plugs. Just as Skip has saiod before nothing works as well as the stock Champions. The only problem is they do not make a colder plug but if you reduce the gap to .032 you have made it run colder. This Champion plug is one of the most common applications out there today.
Finally got the plug change made. Now that my hands are all properly scratched up I can honestly say it feels like I was woking on a Viper again!
Not clear evidence of a spark related issue. However I noted #1 and #3 plug wires were not fully snapped on. That answers a problem I noted at the dyno where massive missfire occurred until the inductive pick up cnnector was moved from #1 to another cylinder as the inductive pick-up must have pulled on the wire enough to cause an open circuit.
That may also be the issue here as the stumble/misfire only occurred with the engine cold, thus plug symptoms would have been minimal.
Here are the plug pics (note #1 is the lower left in all pics):
Not clear evidence of a spark related issue. However I noted #1 and #3 plug wires were not fully snapped on. That answers a problem I noted at the dyno where massive missfire occurred until the inductive pick up cnnector was moved from #1 to another cylinder as the inductive pick-up must have pulled on the wire enough to cause an open circuit.
That may also be the issue here as the stumble/misfire only occurred with the engine cold, thus plug symptoms would have been minimal.
Here are the plug pics (note #1 is the lower left in all pics):
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
Viper SRT, you may just have a few bad plugs. I have seen brand new plugs that are bad. Once I had 2 new plugs on my Modified that were bad out of the box. You need to replace each plug , 1 at a time with 2 new ones, and them try it. This way you know if the original plug is good or bad and you have a back up plug that you know is good to try in the next cylinder. I know it is a pain in the ass but it works.
Okay, a bit more info as the symptoms are strange to me. At idle, after a cold start (note this is during warm weather), there is a noticeable miss even at idle. The strange thing is that I hear a chirping sound coming from the left exhaust (right bank). Very little of the sound makes it to the right exhaust. The chirping sound and the miss seem in synch. Strange indeed. I did not notice the chirping sound before the spark plug change but I may have missed it as the miss was sensed while driving right after a cold start.
Similar threads
