Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Like the subject says. If someone will host it I've got some vid from Archer's 4th place finish and the great showing by the other Comp Coupes.
Speed GT vid if someone will host it
- Thread starter Chuck 98 RT/10
- Start date
ViperGTS
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2001
- Posts
- 5,016
- Reaction score
- 0
Bump! How many MB's? No one?
BADVENOM
Enthusiast
Bob woodhouse finised in ninth, great showing for the vipers both Archer and woodhouse..good stuff..Those cadillacs were intense
The Caddies ran away from everyone, as SCCA gave them every advantage......% speed race trans, motor moved back 4 inches, excessive flared body, same weight as the Vette, yet, allowed the motor larger throttle bodies, and bigger valves. Yet they gave the Viper more weight. Talk about a one sided romp!!!!
BADVENOM
Enthusiast
caddys will get another 75lbs next time..they wanted to give caddy a coming out prty..new car and all..
Hoosier Daddy
Enthusiast
Only rewards weight will be added for Lime Rock, no changes to anything else will be done till after the 2nd race per there rules.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
The Caddys were a pathetic joke. All these hot looking sports cars in the field and GM pumps 90 million into these two four-door blue-hair retiree cars. The Corvette guys must be feeling sick about it.
Tech was amusing. The only car getting serious tech was Archer's CC. Folks were asking why the Caddy's weren't being tech'd. LOL General answer was "Why bother?" GM bought 1 and 2 for the rest of the year. The real fun will be for 3, 4, 5.
Here's some vid of turn 17.
Please right mouse click and "Save Target As..." to your hard drive. Thanks.
http://www.babelmotorsports.com/SbrngSPGT512.wmv
Tech was amusing. The only car getting serious tech was Archer's CC. Folks were asking why the Caddy's weren't being tech'd. LOL General answer was "Why bother?" GM bought 1 and 2 for the rest of the year. The real fun will be for 3, 4, 5.
Here's some vid of turn 17.
Please right mouse click and "Save Target As..." to your hard drive. Thanks.
http://www.babelmotorsports.com/SbrngSPGT512.wmv
LETHAL GTS
Viper Owner
Thanks for the vid Chuck!
I love the sound of those V10's!
I love the sound of those V10's!
LETHAL GTS
Viper Owner
Thanks for the vid Chuck!
I would love to have been there!
I love the sound of those V10's!
I would love to have been there!
I love the sound of those V10's!
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
Chuck was that the Corvette corral you were filming from. I was there, watched that race from the upper deck by finish line. That was pure BS that the Caddy's got such an advantage. That #8 Caddy stalled at the start for 20 seconds then runs the whole field down. I did manage to get two complete set of tires (scrubs) while I was there. One set was off the #8 Caddy the exact same size my Viper uses.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
It was from the Viper Corral. Between the Porsches and Audis. Turn 17.
Two sets of tires?! How much $$$? If you got them from Caddy they must have been trying to recoupe some of that 90 million.
Two sets of tires?! How much $$$? If you got them from Caddy they must have been trying to recoupe some of that 90 million.
LETHAL GTS
Viper Owner
LMAO
pdmracing
Enthusiast
Are you kidding? I guess thats what the Z06 guys were saying about the Comp coupe being allowed to race in this class? You can buy a Viper coupe from the dodge dealer right??
The world challange are not street cars. The average touring car( the slower class) cost well over $120K per car. Thats why the little acura was doing 1:38's on STREET TOYO"S(last years tire for touring not even a dot race tire, now they are all RA1 dot race tires) @ road atlanta last fall. That is faster than the T1 lap record! Stock? I dont think so.
There are many mods that can be made to the cars. I find it funny with the club members ******** about unfair caddies , when you CANT EVEN BUY A VIPER COUPE FOR THE STREET, unless its a used GTS. Talk about UNFAIR. The CC is a great car, but it isnt available as a street version, & while the caddy, ( and every other car out there) is available at your local dealer.
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
I walked right by there I only seen one Viper the whole time and he was driving by. How many Vipers were in the corral? I saw the Audi,Porsche,and Corvette corral. I paid $140 for all tires. The Toyo tire guy said the tires off the Caddy's were in better shape, that they changed them more often and were not as ******* them. I guess that big budget GM put out allows them to do so.
Gee, PDM, not sure why you are so upset about the comment, as none of the cars out there really resemble much of what is on the street. The simple fact that there were two huge factory trailers, GM is offering full Corporate Sponsorship, and the cars are estimated to be over $500K a piece, means just what the announcers of the race were saying - the bar has been raised. We have guys running around in 100-150K Comp Coupes ( about the price of many of the Touring Class cars ) and no full factory support, so I think kudos are to be commended for 4 cars in the top 10. The season will be interesting with factory cars of Audi, Volvo , Cadillac,etc., so hopefully Dodge will see how well their little budget ( comparitively speaking ) racer is doing and we may see the Snake return to greatness -with support from DC in the sports car venue.
Rich Wesorick
Enthusiast
Just to set the record straight on purpose-built race cars in WCGT (rather than showroom conversions), Saleen was first to do it with a few cars in '97 and '98 (with Terry Borcheller at the wheel). In 1999, GM broke the real cherry though by selling two dozen or so C5 kits (unassembled chassis with body parts, etc.) to the WCGT Corvette competitors, along with meaningful motorsports support. NONE of the front-runners in WCGT are converted-showroom cars anymore - that's just a fact. I see no problem whatsoever with CC's running despite no showroom equivalent. The real issue is how to reel in what they've given to the Caddys - and they will...
pdmracing
Enthusiast
My point is this, CAN YOU BY A VIPER COUPE? NO !
Can you by a gt3 Porsche for the street YES.
The COUPE BODY IS NOT AVALABLE to the public for street use is it? All the other cars have a body style resembles one that you can buy.
So what if GM wants to step up & put its money where its mouth is. Its not like the Comp Coupe is some grassroots effort, It is a purpose built race car with all the might of D/C engineering behind it. I would think its more like the porsche effort, build the car & sell them to privateers & let them race. So dont give me that BS that the CC is an underdog. I could only imagine what the other guys were saying last year when the CC podiumed in its first race. Probably the same thing on this board.
And by the way, how much development $$ did D/C throw @ the CC???? I am sure just as much as caddy, the only difference is DC got customers to pay for some of it.
I am all for the viper nation, I would like them to run an srt 10 with a hardtop, or step up & build a street coupe so we can all buy one.
Caddy spanked us, give them their due.
Can you by a gt3 Porsche for the street YES.
The COUPE BODY IS NOT AVALABLE to the public for street use is it? All the other cars have a body style resembles one that you can buy.
So what if GM wants to step up & put its money where its mouth is. Its not like the Comp Coupe is some grassroots effort, It is a purpose built race car with all the might of D/C engineering behind it. I would think its more like the porsche effort, build the car & sell them to privateers & let them race. So dont give me that BS that the CC is an underdog. I could only imagine what the other guys were saying last year when the CC podiumed in its first race. Probably the same thing on this board.
And by the way, how much development $$ did D/C throw @ the CC???? I am sure just as much as caddy, the only difference is DC got customers to pay for some of it.
I am all for the viper nation, I would like them to run an srt 10 with a hardtop, or step up & build a street coupe so we can all buy one.
Caddy spanked us, give them their due.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Sorry PDM but I have a tough time giving Caddy any credit. If GM would have put big $$$ in the Vettes I'd agree with you, but I just don't see a four-door Caddy as a sports car no matter how much Lutz and the CPAs pretend to pass it off as one. I suppose I'll just have to be glad GM isn't propping a Z06-powered SUV or we'd be watching the CC drafting a Suburban.
I wonder who they have doing the designs over there. Cadillac CTS??? Isn't it a little early for retro eighties?
I wonder who they have doing the designs over there. Cadillac CTS??? Isn't it a little early for retro eighties?
pdmracing
Enthusiast
I see your point, but the Audis are a 4 door sedan too, I cant wait for the local yuppies to get sick of their Z0-Caddy, I really want one ...... & if it stays true to Caddy resale values then I expect to pay less than 20k$! I always wanted to do up a first year Seville with a big block & 4 speed. I have nothing but 2 seaters , I need a cheep 4 door!
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
Host? What does that entail?
Frank Parise
VCA Venom Member
PDM, I think everybody shares your enthusiasm for a street coupe. Please consider the following in the context of what you have written above.
Although the VCC is not street legal, it can be purchased by anyone directly from Viper Race headquarters. Put in your order today and you can have one. You cannot purchase the Cadillac CTS-V, nor can you purchase the race accessories found on these factory race prototypes to make your own racecar. This is contrary to the SCCA rules.
The Porsche GT3 street cat you refer to is not what is raced in Speed GT. Speed GT features Porsce "Cup" cars which are not produced in street-leagal form. They are sold directly to race customers in full-race trim, identical to how the VCC is sold.
Did you realize that Phil McClure's Corvette is built ground up using a real C5-R chassis?
The facts are that all of these cars are in one way, shape or form based on a production model avaialble to the public. The rules are intended to give each car a reasonable chance of being competitive. This requires entirely different formulas for each car because they start life off in dramatically different forms.
The VCC has already been tatooed with a huge restriction. The SCCA refers to it as a "limited-preparation vehicle" and, as such, with only very minor exceptions, the VCC must be run in virtually factory stock configuration. If all the cars were required to run in the same configuration, the Viper would have no competition and there would be no sense in having the series at all.
Finally, Mr Eric Prill of the SCCA released this official opinion of the SCCA regarding the Cadillac debacle at Sebring and the mockery it brought to the series last week. Now let's see if the SCCA fixes it properly. Here's the full text of his message which is posted on the SCCA Competitor's discussion board............
First off, we appreciate the passion that many fans here have displayed with their dissatisfaction with the 2004 season-opening SCCA SPEED GT race. Without great fans, we have no reason to put on the series that we strive to do.
We also thank and congratulate our teams and drivers for putting on a good, clean show, with usual great performances turned in by many, and some new teams and drivers showing that they’ll be a force in future races.
The Sebring races, from a standpoint of competition, were great, with the Audis, Corvettes, Vipers and Saleen running on a pretty even keel. We’d have liked to see a Porsche or BMW into this mix as well, which will be looked at now that we have data and video from the cars in current form.
The Cadillacs were faster than the rest of the field. That is not in dispute. It is sad that people have attacked Pro Racing, stating that concessions were made because of the manufacturer's position as the Official Vehicle. That’s simply not true. I won’t debate it because there’s nothing to debate.
Our series is based on providing a great show with as much parity as possible at the front of the field. While some will dispute this, a great deal of effort was put into doing just this prior to Sebring. Remember that nobody ever saw the #8 and #16 cars run in anger before Sebring race week. Accurately predicting what occurred was simply not possible, despite what you could speculate or guess. Remember that people were scared to death of the Audi getting larger tires and fender flares as well. Apparently these changes did not put those cars on “another planet.”
Since this was the first time the cars appeared in public (and performed before the eyes of SCCA Pro Racing officials and staff), it is fair to say that the results were different from what the technical staff expected as well. Based on some information collected in the last two months, the cars received a lower rev limit and an air restrictor prior to Sebring.
Data collected from all the cars, as well as split times, speed traps and video, will be studied immediately to determine what must be done before the next race, as has been the practice of the series for some time now, in order to provide a good show and equal opportunity for our top teams and drivers to race for poles and wins. It was previously noted in a bulletin that our standard procedure would be to observe cars for two races before making changes. However, if for the betterment of the series, adjustments must be made immediately, they will be.
We are aware that the product on the track at Sebring was not exactly what we strive to produce, and we are committed to having a good show, with good competition between top teams, drivers and manufacturers.
------------------
Eric Prill
SCCA Pro Racing
Although the VCC is not street legal, it can be purchased by anyone directly from Viper Race headquarters. Put in your order today and you can have one. You cannot purchase the Cadillac CTS-V, nor can you purchase the race accessories found on these factory race prototypes to make your own racecar. This is contrary to the SCCA rules.
The Porsche GT3 street cat you refer to is not what is raced in Speed GT. Speed GT features Porsce "Cup" cars which are not produced in street-leagal form. They are sold directly to race customers in full-race trim, identical to how the VCC is sold.
Did you realize that Phil McClure's Corvette is built ground up using a real C5-R chassis?
The facts are that all of these cars are in one way, shape or form based on a production model avaialble to the public. The rules are intended to give each car a reasonable chance of being competitive. This requires entirely different formulas for each car because they start life off in dramatically different forms.
The VCC has already been tatooed with a huge restriction. The SCCA refers to it as a "limited-preparation vehicle" and, as such, with only very minor exceptions, the VCC must be run in virtually factory stock configuration. If all the cars were required to run in the same configuration, the Viper would have no competition and there would be no sense in having the series at all.
Finally, Mr Eric Prill of the SCCA released this official opinion of the SCCA regarding the Cadillac debacle at Sebring and the mockery it brought to the series last week. Now let's see if the SCCA fixes it properly. Here's the full text of his message which is posted on the SCCA Competitor's discussion board............
First off, we appreciate the passion that many fans here have displayed with their dissatisfaction with the 2004 season-opening SCCA SPEED GT race. Without great fans, we have no reason to put on the series that we strive to do.
We also thank and congratulate our teams and drivers for putting on a good, clean show, with usual great performances turned in by many, and some new teams and drivers showing that they’ll be a force in future races.
The Sebring races, from a standpoint of competition, were great, with the Audis, Corvettes, Vipers and Saleen running on a pretty even keel. We’d have liked to see a Porsche or BMW into this mix as well, which will be looked at now that we have data and video from the cars in current form.
The Cadillacs were faster than the rest of the field. That is not in dispute. It is sad that people have attacked Pro Racing, stating that concessions were made because of the manufacturer's position as the Official Vehicle. That’s simply not true. I won’t debate it because there’s nothing to debate.
Our series is based on providing a great show with as much parity as possible at the front of the field. While some will dispute this, a great deal of effort was put into doing just this prior to Sebring. Remember that nobody ever saw the #8 and #16 cars run in anger before Sebring race week. Accurately predicting what occurred was simply not possible, despite what you could speculate or guess. Remember that people were scared to death of the Audi getting larger tires and fender flares as well. Apparently these changes did not put those cars on “another planet.”
Since this was the first time the cars appeared in public (and performed before the eyes of SCCA Pro Racing officials and staff), it is fair to say that the results were different from what the technical staff expected as well. Based on some information collected in the last two months, the cars received a lower rev limit and an air restrictor prior to Sebring.
Data collected from all the cars, as well as split times, speed traps and video, will be studied immediately to determine what must be done before the next race, as has been the practice of the series for some time now, in order to provide a good show and equal opportunity for our top teams and drivers to race for poles and wins. It was previously noted in a bulletin that our standard procedure would be to observe cars for two races before making changes. However, if for the betterment of the series, adjustments must be made immediately, they will be.
We are aware that the product on the track at Sebring was not exactly what we strive to produce, and we are committed to having a good show, with good competition between top teams, drivers and manufacturers.
------------------
Eric Prill
SCCA Pro Racing
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Good. Apparently Viper fans aren't the only ones pissed.
Uhhhh. Slipping here Mr. Prill. You should have just stayed away from that subject.
Oh puh-lease. I guess Schumacher could bring a brand-new-never-tested F1 to the next GTWC?
So why not allow those to be the ONLY mods allowed for Caddy?
If that's true then it's also fair to say the tech staff aint too bright.
They best be or I'll only be watching one more GT race this year.
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
Mike you must have watched the 12 hours of Sebring on Sat.... this race was on Friday @ 4:30pm and the Viper corral was only on Friday.
Cudaman
No I was there Tuesday thru Sat. and watched all the races. I probably walked by that area to early or before everyone got there. How many Vipers were in the corral?
pdmracing
Enthusiast
My point is still a valid one, the CC is not available in any showroom, the porsche gt3 is the street version of the Porsche cup car, The porsche GT3R is that runs in ALMS trim is even beefier, the point is the Comp coupe is not avalable in any versions for road use & every other car in the series is. Case closed. The VCC is a purpose built race car with an aero coupe body that is not available to the public, if the srt is the same aero wise why not run it? Just like in alms where 427 vettes rule the roost, adjustments must be made for parity & that is understood, the viper has superior power out of the box, so with equal mods,it would be a run away. I believe when archer almost won the series a few years ago ( before doghnahue knocked him out) he had to run restrictor plates? is that still the case?
You state that the CC is available to anyone who has the cash, well so is the saleen,Porsche cup, gt3r, gt3rs, and a host of other purpose built race cars. the one difference is the ALL have a street version that at least resembles the race car & the Viper does not. So in the same vain, why should it be allowed to run? In facet the SCCA is the only real pro series that allows it, the ALMS, & grand am do not so in that regards, the SCCA is giving DC a very real advantage on the CC, so they can fill the fields, just the same way they allowed gm some special favors to get the caddies in. The caddy makes its debut in grand am cup @ homestead this weekend, which is a true street based class, lets see how they do.
Also on the subject of competition adjustments, I know for a fact the DC was worried about the Vipers strong performance & was asking certain teams to sand bag at the Atlanta round last october.
You state that the CC is available to anyone who has the cash, well so is the saleen,Porsche cup, gt3r, gt3rs, and a host of other purpose built race cars. the one difference is the ALL have a street version that at least resembles the race car & the Viper does not. So in the same vain, why should it be allowed to run? In facet the SCCA is the only real pro series that allows it, the ALMS, & grand am do not so in that regards, the SCCA is giving DC a very real advantage on the CC, so they can fill the fields, just the same way they allowed gm some special favors to get the caddies in. The caddy makes its debut in grand am cup @ homestead this weekend, which is a true street based class, lets see how they do.
Also on the subject of competition adjustments, I know for a fact the DC was worried about the Vipers strong performance & was asking certain teams to sand bag at the Atlanta round last october.
Frank Parise
VCA Venom Member
PDM, why such a negative spin on the VCC being allowed to race in the series? The SCCA recognizes the distinction you are referring to and, accordingly, has labeled it as "limited preparation" with no substantive modifications allowed. Unlike our competitors, we cannot make any internal engine modifications, we cannot dry sump the motor, we cannot change the tranny or the rear axle ratios, etc. If you had an opportunity to drive a CC in the WCGT Series you would quickly realize that it takes a world-class driver to find the podium in a CC.
pdmracing
Enthusiast
It takes a world clas driver to podium in W/C period.
I am not negative on the CC, But responding to the whining about the Caddy. To hear people complain about GM's commitment to the W/C program gets me going.( and I do not own a gm product) I am sure there were lots o complaints about the viper coupes promising showing last year.
I like the fact that they let you come & play, but if I were driving a Porsche I would be pi$$ed that they let the CC in. Let me ask you a simple question, if you were running an srt10 with a hardtop, would you be allowed to make the mods that you say the others are making? If so why is no one stepping up & running an SRT10? To me, letting the CC in W/C is akin to the M5 engined M3's in ALMS a few years back, you cant buy one, so why can you race it?? Production based cars are supposed to be just that, based on a production car that is available to the public regardless of the modifications allowed.
I am not negative on the CC, But responding to the whining about the Caddy. To hear people complain about GM's commitment to the W/C program gets me going.( and I do not own a gm product) I am sure there were lots o complaints about the viper coupes promising showing last year.
I like the fact that they let you come & play, but if I were driving a Porsche I would be pi$$ed that they let the CC in. Let me ask you a simple question, if you were running an srt10 with a hardtop, would you be allowed to make the mods that you say the others are making? If so why is no one stepping up & running an SRT10? To me, letting the CC in W/C is akin to the M5 engined M3's in ALMS a few years back, you cant buy one, so why can you race it?? Production based cars are supposed to be just that, based on a production car that is available to the public regardless of the modifications allowed.
