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[SapphireGTS]

Japanese car IS like buying a car from the Taliban

Its been a while since we were at war with Japan but back then it would have been unheard of.

Maybe in 40 years Iraq will have some great cars. By then we will be at war with France. So in 40 years I can say buying a car from Iraq would be like buying a car from France People will be like WHAT?

So there - <|o<= .

 

[V10 MOJO]

again a pathetic attempt to compare apples and oranges. i myself wouldnt want to own one of those shoeboxes if you paid me, but hey, im outpsoken and opinionated. like i have always said; the viper is and always will be the epitomy of the total package musclecar. the skyline well...its a skyline. always seems to be some ******* bitchin and whining. move on man, life is short, theyre only cars for christs sake

 

[Russ M]

Sean,

There is a run this Saturday, you should come along.

I want that video!!!

 

[tyndago]

Is it just me or is Chrysler now called DaimlerChrysler. So your Dodge which is under Chrysler is now under DaimlerChrysler or its under na-zi control ?

The video I have Russ is just from the digital camera.

Saturday

 

[Torquemonster]

Is it just me or is Chrysler now called DaimlerChrysler. So your Dodge which is under Chrysler is now under DaimlerChrysler or its under na-zi control ?

errr.... you got us there.

Thats a sore point with some.... personally I like it - Mercedes has always built great cars and being in the same bed is a good thing overall. Most of us have got past WW2 now.

Afterall American money got poured into Germany and Japan so why not enjoy what they make - long as the trade is reasonably balanced both ways overall.

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

The R32 really doesnt look like much.

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To say the R32 doesn't look like much is an understatement. That car is sooo ugly I bet it blew itself up just to put itself out of its misery. HP/Liter, who gives a pluck. That's some term you ricer boys developed. It's analogous to some 120 weakling guy saying he has a 4 inch penis but even though some 260 pound guy has a 8 inch penis the ricer boy still has more penis per pound. I always hear you ricer boys saying stuff like the Viper has 488 CI and only gets X HP, I'm not impressed. Well at least the Vipers don't blow up now do they. That's what happens when you try to push a lot of horsepower through some import engine that wasn't meant to take it. Go have a circle **** around your mighty Nissan Skyline with your ricer buddies then and be done with it. And don't start saying there are all these 1,000 hp 6 cylinder Supras out there that are bullet proof and yadda yadda yadda.

How did this whole love affair with these import crap cars start anyways? Did all you rice boys parents drive Honda Civics or something when you were young and then they handed it down to you when you turned 16. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Russ M]

To say the R32 doesn't look like much is an understatement. That car is sooo ugly I bet it blew itself up just to put itself out of its misery. HP/Liter, who gives a pluck. That's some term you ricer boys developed. It's analogous to some 120 weakling guy saying he has a 4 inch penis but even though some 260 pound guy has a 8 inch penis the ricer boy still has more penis per pound. I always hear you ricer boys saying stuff like the Viper has 488 CI and only gets X HP, I'm not impressed. Well at least the Vipers don't blow up now do they. That's what happens when you try to push a lot of horsepower through some import engine that wasn't meant to take it. Go have a circle **** around your mighty Nissan Skyline with your ricer buddies then and be done with it. And don't start saying there are all these 1,000 hp 6 cylinder Supras out there that are bullet proof and yadda yadda yadda.

How did this whole love affair with these import crap cars start anyways? Did all you rice boys parents drive Honda Civics or something when you were young and then they handed it down to you when you turned 16. Inquiring minds want to know.

You are very wrong about Sean, he is a car nut has nothing to do with ricers. He is actually an American Iron fanatic at heart, he is a huge Syclone/Typhoon enthusiast and last time I checked those were built by GMC.

And to say that a Skyline is ugly is just plain foolish, they are one of the most sought after cars built in the past 20 years. There must be a reason for that, although its not my cup of tea I cant say its ugly by any means.

 

[Walt McFarland]

Paolo;

I think you did a great job and went through a whole bunch of trouble and expense for the Viper community. Thanks for representing us so well.

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

You are very wrong about Sean, he is a car nut has nothing to do with ricers. He is actually an American Iron fanatic at heart, he is a huge Syclone/Typhoon enthusiast and last time I checked those were built by GMC.

And to say that a Skyline is ugly is just plain foolish, they are one of the most sought after cars built in the past 20 years. There must be a reason for that, although its not my cup of tea I cant say its ugly by any means.

Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I think the Nissan Skyline is ugly, then it is. So says the Mad Man. Actually I don't think I have ever liked the styling of Japanese cars. Or Swedish cars for that matter, although the Volvos are starting to look a little better lately since Ford took over.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo;

I think you did a great job and went through a whole bunch of trouble and expense for the Viper community. Thanks for representing us so well.

Thanks Walt, I hope you are driving the [******] out of your Heffner Viper! Take care! Paolo

 

[George Murray]

Ah...these goofy chainsaw-sounding cars from the land of the rising sun are just part of the "alternative lifestyle" set anyway.

Rice...who cares...those cars are about as interesting as Taliban nightlife.

 

[slaughterj]

You are very wrong about Sean, he is a car nut has nothing to do with ricers. He is actually an American Iron fanatic at heart, he is a huge Syclone/Typhoon enthusiast and last time I checked those were built by GMC.

And to say that a Skyline is ugly is just plain foolish, they are one of the most sought after cars built in the past 20 years. There must be a reason for that, although its not my cup of tea I cant say its ugly by any means.

Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I think the Nissan Skyline is ugly, then it is. So says the Mad Man. Actually I don't think I have ever liked the styling of Japanese cars. Or Swedish cars for that matter, although the Volvos are starting to look a little better lately since Ford took over.

Yeah, the Skyline's appearance is far from impressive, it makes me think of a older (dated) Maxima ... it's certainly no NSX, late model RX-7, etc.

 

[canman]

Hi there all,

I'm not trying to heat the discussion any more but I don't think it's fair to compare a car that was designed and made on or before 1989 to a anything modern like a Viper.

What about comparing it to my car.

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I am a big GTR fan, well a big car fan in general, but I own a GTR and so can at least say it's one of the best cars I've driven. For me the Viper is a very big car. My GTR is large too compared to some, but even compared to my GTR the Viper is a big beast.

For me, it's not my thing, but I can certainly appreciate it's merits, and could understand that for different people there's always going to be things we like and don't like.

It's always a huge issue on forums when you compare what are 2 totally different cars, trying to achieve the same result. One uses pure cubic capacity to pull a heavier car around and the other a smaller turbo charged engine in a lighter chassis.

2WD Vs 4WD, Turbo Vs Cubes etc etc you're always going to be able to agrue good and bad points of both and potentially all be right in what you're saying.

How about we just accept that you love Vipers and others love GTR's, like me though there's alot that love those as well as most other sports cars.

You guys are so lucky to get Vipers and Corvettes there so cheap. Over here in NZ they're something of a rarity and are quite expensive relative to other cars in their arena.

For instance I think a new Corvette over here sets you back around $ 120-130,000 USD all landed and ready to drive, I'm not 100% sure, but I think they're alot cheaper than that in the US where you are.

Same applies for cars we get here though like my GTR which was around $ 70,000 USD, again I can't be 100% sure, but I think you guys get charged alot more for them there as they have to be modified for safety etc.

If any of you ever visit NZ, I'd be happy to show you around and there will be somewhere to stay as we've got plenty of room.

Come on fella's lets all just appreciate performance cars.

 

[WilBriK]

"...I don't think it's fair to compare a car that was designed and made on or before 1989 to a anything modern like a Viper."

Why not? The 1961 Ferrari 250GT California was designed over 40 years ago and STILL looks better than most cars ever built. Jaguar 1951 XK150 Drophead is also gorgeous, and over a half-century old. The list goes on and on.

Your Skyline is literally the best-looking one I've seen, but it still looks like a family sedan that went to a plastic surgeon.

The mechanical engineering of the Skyline is impressive, and I would never try to argue against it, but the appearance leaves much to be desired.

Where in NZ are you? I'll be there in January.

 

[canman]

Re the comparison of styling Vs age, I meant that Japan and to a certain degree the US haven't always made good looking cars for a world market. They have made some great ones of course, but in general, so if you took a 1989 Corvette for instance and I put it up against a more modern version, most would choose the modern version as most of the time they are improvements. I think the European's are a different story when you try an age comparison as they've always had style in bags in my opinion.

Re Not thinking the GTR looks like a proper sports car, Yeah as I said, fair enough. In the flesh it doesn't look the way you describe, but I know what you're getting at. Having lived alot of my life in Europe, I prefer the European Touring car look, and so of course most of the racecars are based on roadcars so as long as it's done tastefully I love it.

I'm also a proud Porsche owner so I know what a "true" sports car look is like, however I also appreciate the pure aggressiveness (as I said, looks better in the flesh) of the GTR.

I intend to be a Ferrari owner one day, but don't plan on selling the GTR or Porsche to get it, so for now I'll have to make do.

For me I want a car that not only looks aggressive, but has excellent handling characteristics, something not too small but definitely no bigger than what I have. So purely on the size front the Viper doesn't fit what I want. Not a bad car, just not what I want.

Also the larger displacement thing just doesn't do it for me. I just don't find most of the non European V8's and V10's that refined to drive or interesting. For me the howl of a 360 Modena or GTR on full song at 8000RPM is sweet music !

As we discussed before it's horses for courses. I don't see anyone elses preferences as a bad thing, just what they want from their car, it's not always the same thing

I'm based in Wellington. You're welcome to visit. Drop me an e-mail if you like.

PS Just as an example of what I mean, try this out. 1953 BRM 1.5 litre V16 Supercharged, made 600HP at 11,500 RPM. Yes that's right, 11,500RPM in 1953 !

http://www.gtrcentral.com/audio/data/other/[email protected]

Apparently they had issues making it run correctly even when they were brand new

 

[M. ROD]

canman;

Great car, I love R34's . But the Viper is #1 for me. Just gotta have the big cubes .

About the Viper being bigger than the GTR:

The Viper is 10+ inches lower and 3 inches shorter than the Mitsu EVO.Viper is 5 inches wider. Is the Skyline smaller than the EVO???

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Uhhhh.... The basic design of the Viper dates from around 1989, that was when development work started, 1992 the car was first sold. It was sustantially improved with the Gen2 in terms of power and livability but is still pretty much the same car from a design atandpoint ending in 2002. Excluding the SRT of course, that is a brand new modern car.

 

[KepRght]

So purely on the size front (i have a small penis) the Viper doesn't fit what I want. (i need to feel bigger) Not a bad car, just not what I want.

Also the larger displacement thing just doesn't do it for me. (my lady wont think im man enough to drive it)

Im 6'3 and can see over the vipers v10 without a phone book. Sorry you cant. You are the same (little man) who writes the car magizine articles where the viper is not getting the praise it diserves.

Go buy your 210k ferrari and I will smoke you on any corse of your choosing. I will drool as I pass by.

(flame suit equipped)

 

[canman]

canman;
About the Viper being bigger than the GTR:

The Viper is 10+ inches lower and 3 inches shorter than the Mitsu EVO.Viper is 5 inches wider. Is the Skyline smaller than the EVO???

It appears I stand corrected maybe it's just the layout of the car that makes it look big. It certainly feels big when you drive it. I suppose it's just the length of the bonnet, but you're bang on, after checking it is in fact shorter than the GTR.

Not strictly sure what the other dude's problem is

It's funny how some see things with rose tinted glasses depending on where you live. In Europe and here in lovely little NZ, it would be you who is seen as suffering a little in the man room with a car like the viper !

Oh well whatever your boyfriend says, I mean whatever you say !

Just whilst I'm here. Can someone outline the different models and specs etc of the Viper range ?? I always get confused about the RT10, GTS and other model names and can never figure out which comes last and first in the official lineup.

 

[canman]

Go buy your 210k ferrari and I will smoke you on any corse of your choosing. I will drool as I pass by. (flame suit equipped)

If you had any intelligence, or had ever driven one at all you'd know that there is a reason beyond the glamour factor that make cars like Porsche and Ferrari's in another class compared to cars like the GTR and Viper.

 

[Russ M]

Canman,

Last time I checked a Skyline was in the class of Z's and Supras, Vipers they are not and never will be.

Stock Skylines are slow dont handle all that great, and look like souped up Maximas.

I think they are great cars because of their engine/tranny/transfer case technology, but that is about it.

 

[M. ROD]

Just whilst I'm here. Can someone outline the different models and specs etc of the Viper range ?? I always get confused about the RT10, GTS and other model names and can never figure out which comes last and first in the official lineup.

-GEN 1:
*1992-1995 Viper RT/10
400hp and ????(450+) lb-ft of Torque

-GEN 1.5:
*1996 Viper RT/10
415hp and 488 lb-ft of Torque

-GEN 2:
*1996-2002 Viper GTS
*1997-2002 Viper RT/10
450hp and 490 lb-ft of Torque

*1998 Viper GTS-R GT2(Special Edition,only 100)
*1999-2002 Viper GTS ACR
460hp and 500 lb-ft of Torque

-GEN 3:
*2003-on Viper SRT-10
500hp and 525 lb-ft of Torque

Dimensions(from Motor Trend Magazine):
*RT/10
Length=> 176.2 inches
Width=> 75.7 inches
Height=> 44.0 inches

*GTS
Length=> 176.7 inches
Width=> 75.7 inches
Height=> 47.0 inches

*SRT-10
Length=> 175.6 inches
Width=> 75.2 inches
Height=> 47.6 inches

 

[Casey]

In Europe and here in lovely little NZ, it would be you who is seen as suffering a little in the man room with a car like the viper !

I have spent 9 months a year in Europe for the past 10 years, and my experience is just the opposite over here. Not many Vipers around, that's for sure. I have only seen a few Vipers in Europe and EVERY time the reaction of people seeing it was very positive. Mention the Viper, and those that know of it, are usually in AWE and excited about it. But that is normal everywhere I have been.
Please go drive a Viper before you decide how they Handle.
I think Russ is correct in his post.

 

[canman]

Casey, I think you've taken something that wasn't aimed at anyone other than the smartarse who posted a childish reply to my earlier post the wrong way.

Russ, I have driven a Viper, not everyday, but feel I'm in a good enough position to make a judgement on it's handling. I have never said that they didn't handle anyhow.

I couldn't disagree with you more that the GTR is not in the same class as the Viper. I suppose it'll be one of those things we'll have to agree to disagree on. It's always going to be hard to try to group cars with such different approaches to performance and looks, but I definitely think the GTR and the Viper sit in the supercar class together.

I don't think it's fair to use a stock GTR as a reference point either. I know you'll say well the viper can perform like that in stock format, however as most will know the Japanese have this crazy agreement not to make cars with over 280PS and they restrict the hell out of the stock cars.

I gained nearly 100BHP by simply removing the restrictive intakes and exhaust, less than $ 1000 USD and jumped in torque and power a considerable amount. All cars have their restrictions/weakspots from the factory, for instance I found the brakes on the Viper I drove to be underpowered after a few agressive stabs, don't know if that's a common concern or not.

I think at the same time as you telling me I need to drive a Viper (which I have, 2003 NZ model) I think it's probably fair to think it's not likely any of you are giving the GTR a fair crack as I doubt alot of you have driven one ???

I don't want to get into a "us Vs them" arguement as I've never said and never will that I don't like the Viper as a car, I think US cars in general have raised the bar in recent years and the Viper has certainly driven alot of that, all I said was that it wasn't my cup of tea. Neither is alot of European stuff either, or HSV's we have here with 5.7 litre V8's, good cars, just not my bag.

I love driving for drivings sake, for me personally, the 911 Turbo and the Ferrari 355 / 360 seem to offer more communication, involvement, feedback etc than the Viper or my GTR, doesn't mean I think either are worse or better cars, just different.

Some days I look for raw grunt and grip, with a more agressive look, those are GTR days, other days are Porsche days, easy performance with minimal fuss and great lines.........

I have no doubt that the viper fills a spot in the market, they must do else they wouldn't exist and they wouldn't get the good reviews that I know they get, it's just not a slot in the market I fit.

I will leave gracefully now I hope one day we can all just appreciate cars and moreover driving rather than always wanting to get into the my car's faster than yours that some (not all) (thanks to those for the reply's regarding the models etc) seem to want it to be.

Just one more note.

I have no doubt that I could make a GTR out perform a Viper, I also have no doubts you could make a Viper outperform a GTR, but I don't subscribe to the theory that the car with the biggest HP or fastest ET over the 1/4 is the "best" car. It's a bigger picture for me.

 

[Russ M]

canman,

A Skyline is not a supercar, and actualy no where near one. I would consider a skyline a super car if corollas were the only things we were alowed to drive.

As I said before stock skylines dont handle well and are slow, modified who cares? You can make a pinto or celica blow away your skyline modified what is the point?

Have I driver a skyline? Yup, several actualy. I was going to buy one until the day I drove a brand new r34 v spec. That was when I realized it was a maxima with a body kit, and 100 more hp.

Before you complain about the Vipers cornering ability you should check on lap time results at various tracks around the world. And before you start quoting nuremburg ring as many like to do, those vipers make alot less hp than the ones we have due to restrictions.

 

[canman]

canman,

A Skyline is not a supercar, and actualy no where near one. I would consider a skyline a super car if corollas were the only things we were alowed to drive.

As I said before stock skylines dont handle well and are slow, modified who cares? You can make a pinto or celica blow away your skyline modified what is the point?

Have I driver a skyline? Yup, several actualy. I was going to buy one until the day I drove a brand new r34 v spec. That was when I realized it was a maxima with a body kit, and 100 more hp.

Before you complain about the Vipers cornering ability you should check on lap time results at various tracks around the world. And before you start quoting nuremburg ring as many like to do, those vipers make alot less hp than the ones we have due to restrictions.

OK so on one hand you say "modified who cares?" then on the other hand to prove your point you say "those vipers make alot less hp than the ones we have due to restrictions" so when you want to make your point it's OK to allow what would essentially be a modified Viper into the conversation !!!!

I and I think most car enthusiasts would consider both the Viper and the GTR as supercars. My car has a completely stock engine, turbo's etc etc and has the exhaust and intakes done.

I personally have had my car up to 290+Kph and there was room to go faster. As I said, pure straightline performance or raw HP isn't the overriding factor to making a good car, but it certainly puts it in the supercar class as far as the rough guide most motoring writers around the world use as a measure.

As I've said before I love all cars, have never said the Viper isn't a great car, I'm sad that you seem to be so close minded about other cars, but hey that's up to you.

I'm not going to post here again as I thought I could have a reasonable conversation with you guys and learn more about Vipers, but I've lost interest in simply defending my comments.

It's a shame as people warned me that the American stereotype was alive and well, and it seems they're right, for you at least. There are other cars outside of the GTR and Viper that all those motoring professionals around the world put ahead. Do you really think they could all be wrong ???

The Viper is a great car, so is the GTR. Both are in the supercar class, end of story.

Bye.