SRT Homecoming

[VCA Forum Staff]

Someone posted this in another thread, and not sure if anyone saw it, but SRT has invited ALL Viper owners to Detroit for homecoming, where our wonderful cars were born, to meet the people responsible for these amazing machines, and see the facilities where they were made and tested.

SRT has been wonderful in setting this up, so this is completely their show; and we in no way want to steal their thunder or take any credit for this event, but on top of that, we have assembled a hotel group, as well as meals for us as a group. SRT set the precedent, it is open to ALL Viper owners, so of course, our event is open to all Viper Owners as well.

We know you are probably saving your pennies for VOI, so the great part is this event is completely free. Any costs associated with the event you will be personally responsible for. You will only be responsible for your meals and hotel room. So if you pack an RV, and all your food, this costs you nothing. There won't be any monies paid to the VCA, we don’t want to create a perception we are “profiting” off of something that SRT has planned, and we don't want to create any barriers to coming to this great event.

So details are as follows:
July 18-20, 2014

Events:
Tour the Conner Avenue Assembly Plant, where our Vipers are born
Shop at the Conner store and the Viper merchant boutique
Join the craftspeople for lunch where you can talk with them one-on-one
See one of the best paint shops in the world at Prefix Coatings
Cruises and dinners

We have a block of rooms available and the registration is: http://www.drivesrt.com/viper-homecoming.html

 

[vetteklr]

Viper People-

I am a former member of this once great club, and I have just sent this note to both club's leadership teams. I saw a thread on another board I frequent, and saw a post that got me curious about homecoming, so I made some calls, and the below is the result. I suspect this thread will be deleted, as it has been on other boards, but everyone needs to know about potentially illegal activity before they commit to anything...


I am hopelessly confused over your upcoming Homecoming offerings in Detroit this summer. One of you has told us that this is an “Open House”, planned by SRT at no cost to us, and one of you is charging Viper owners about $500 per person to attend this event. The latter club is also conducting a raffle and calling it a “door prize”. Is the $500 per person to cover the cost of the raffle car?

I have contacted the Michigan Attorney General, as well as the MI gaming commission to check on the licensing of this upcoming raffle and they have no record of a raffle of this size. The law (and they have verified this verbally) is VERY clear on the subject, just by changing the label to “door prize” does not alter the nature of the actual raffle. As such, you needed to follow all the applicable raffle procedures and rules spelled out below in the raffle code. On page 1 of the Raffle Code of the Michigan Charitable Gaming Commission and available on line at www.michigan.gov/cq provides:

What is a Raffle
"If you are charging people or requiring them to donate or provide something of value to participate in a drawing where a prize will be awarded, then you are conducting a raffle.
Common misconceptions
'We are only giving away door prizes; we aren't conducting a raffle.' If people are being charged to attend a function where (door) prizes will be awarded through a drawing, then you are conducting a raffle."

Failure to become qualified and licensed is a Federal offense carrying a term of up to 5 years in prison and a fine of up to $5,000 for each violation. It also violates Michigan law in addition to federal law.


Given the history of the Viper Club and raffles, I find this appalling. I have no idea how you guys had the gall to put us through this again, but as a former member I had to bring this to your, and the authorities, attention.

So now is the real issue, your board (and regional Presidents, since they are board members) now knows that you are technically committing an actionable act, and since you know this prior to actually taking that act, you as board members could be held personally liable for fraud (and you can’t say you didn’t know this, as this communication is being provided to the MI AG). Perhaps the bigger issue is the fact that you have brought the manufacturer in on an extra-legal endeavor. I’m sure they will be none too pleased to find out your incompetence has opened them to legal liability, using their event as the premise for this fraud.

As a final note, your respective leadership teams behavior over the last months have been disappointing; you have split a fun group of people, putting the manufacturer and us as former members in the middle, and it appears that for some at least, only for your personal greed, power, and oversized egos. To commit a crime on top of this should be expected.

Shamed,
Steve

 

[Bobpantax]

Interesting post but I am a bit confused. The event you mention above, where the "door prize" is being given, is a VOA event. It is not an SRT or VCA event. It seems to me that if you have an issue with it, the proper place to address it is with the Board of the VOA not here. The VCA Board has no power over the VOA.

It has been very refreshing that the posts on this Board have returned to discussing Vipers and other interesting subjects. I hope that it stays that way. The Viper needs the support of everyone.

 

[TrackAire]

Viper People-

I am a former member of this once great club, and I have just sent this note to both club's leadership teams. I saw a thread on another board I frequent, and saw a post that got me curious about homecoming, so I made some calls, and the below is the result. I suspect this thread will be deleted, as it has been on other boards, but everyone needs to know about potentially illegal activity before they commit to anything...


I am hopelessly confused over your upcoming Homecoming offerings in Detroit this summer. One of you has told us that this is an “Open House”, planned by SRT at no cost to us, and one of you is charging Viper owners about $500 per person to attend this event. The latter club is also conducting a raffle and calling it a “door prize”. Is the $500 per person to cover the cost of the raffle car?

I have contacted the Michigan Attorney General, as well as the MI gaming commission to check on the licensing of this upcoming raffle and they have no record of a raffle of this size. The law (and they have verified this verbally) is VERY clear on the subject, just by changing the label to “door prize” does not alter the nature of the actual raffle. As such, you needed to follow all the applicable raffle procedures and rules spelled out below in the raffle code. On page 1 of the Raffle Code of the Michigan Charitable Gaming Commission and available on line at www.michigan.gov/cq provides:

What is a Raffle
"If you are charging people or requiring them to donate or provide something of value to participate in a drawing where a prize will be awarded, then you are conducting a raffle.
Common misconceptions
'We are only giving away door prizes; we aren't conducting a raffle.' If people are being charged to attend a function where (door) prizes will be awarded through a drawing, then you are conducting a raffle."

Failure to become qualified and licensed is a Federal offense carrying a term of up to 5 years in prison and a fine of up to $5,000 for each violation. It also violates Michigan law in addition to federal law.


Given the history of the Viper Club and raffles, I find this appalling. I have no idea how you guys had the gall to put us through this again, but as a former member I had to bring this to your, and the authorities, attention.

So now is the real issue, your board (and regional Presidents, since they are board members) now knows that you are technically committing an actionable act, and since you know this prior to actually taking that act, you as board members could be held personally liable for fraud (and you can’t say you didn’t know this, as this communication is being provided to the MI AG). Perhaps the bigger issue is the fact that you have brought the manufacturer in on an extra-legal endeavor. I’m sure they will be none too pleased to find out your incompetence has opened them to legal liability, using their event as the premise for this fraud.

As a final note, your respective leadership teams behavior over the last months have been disappointing; you have split a fun group of people, putting the manufacturer and us as former members in the middle, and it appears that for some at least, only for your personal greed, power, and oversized egos. To commit a crime on top of this should be expected.

Shamed,
Steve

If I'm understanding you correctly, the door prize is being controlled by the VOA....not this club, the VCA. If you're concerns are valid, I'd recommend you post a question or concern on the VOA forum....what good would it do here?

It is an interesting issue you've brought up. I believe the cost to go to the event is $550.00 for non Mamba members which includes 3 meals a day for 3 days. I know if I eat out 3 times a day for 3 days while traveling, $550.00 would not cover my tab. So there is the argument that the $550.00 is really just to feed us.....the door prize is just that, a free prize you only have one chance to win. Past raffles (VCA or any raffle for that matter) often means I can buy as many tickets as I want.....changing the odds of the event, hence the term "gaming". Since this is a closed event limited to 500 people and you can only buy one entry for the dinners, it will be interesting to see how the legal eagles view this situation.

I understand your concern and I have got to ask, when the VCA was doing their raffle last year and there were many questions (some valid, some not), did you post up your concerns on this forum? I don't remember seeing your forum name....did you go by another since I see this is your first post?

Cheers,
George

 

[Nsane1]

Steve

We did get your email, and after a few phone calls/emails telling us about this thread, I had to cut dinner short and come here and post. I agree with the others, the VCA has nothing to do with a raffle for this homecoming event. The actions by the old club leadership related to the last raffle has caused us to be VERY careful about raffles in the future. They are possible, but very difficult to do correctly.

We also agree, it is regrettable there is confusion around the multiple club thing, and appreciate as well as share in your concern.

Greg

 

[vetteklr]

typical. You guys don't actually read the post. Since the same guys control both of the other boards, anything anti their point of view is instantly deleted. I hope the irony of THIS place not censoring, while the bastions of "free speech" delete like mad is not lost on anyone. Of course NOW this thread will be deleted. I might as well say "jonb" and get it over with.

 

[WANTED]

my understanding is VOA has made this their event, limiting it to the first 500. SRT set a limit of the amount of people they can handle. If thats true VOA already is selling 500 tickets to this this. seems SRT is with them on this. good luck being able to go if your only a VCA member, *****.

 

[Bobpantax]

The home coming is an SRT event open to all Viper owners whether club affiliated or not. That is why SRT sent out an email invitation to all Viper owners for whom they have an email address.

In conjunction with that event, the VOA is having its own functions. Those functions are the ones limited to 500.

If the VCA or Viper Alley wish to also have an event or events during the SRT Homecoming, they can if they choose to.

I think its great that SRT is doing this.

my understanding is VOA has made this their event, limiting it to the first 500. SRT set a limit of the amount of people they can handle. If thats true VOA already is selling 500 tickets to this this. seems SRT is with them on this. good luck being able to go if your only a VCA member, *****.

 

[TrackAire]

Maybe I missed it, but I'm not seeing any threads deleted on this forum regarding this issue....not sure what your are referring to.

When looking at the whole picture for 2014, I'm seeing a Viper Homecoming event and a VOI COTA event with real track time available. For a Viper owner, this is a win-win situation (just like whenever competition is put forth). Honestly, it is looking like a good year for the Viper enthusiast with event options that have not been available before.

Cheers,
George

 

[Free2go]

Why would anyone who is not going to the VOA raffle banquet give a dog fart wether or not it's legal?

 

[plumcrazy]

typical. You guys don't actually read the post. Since the same guys control both of the other boards, anything anti their point of view is instantly deleted. I hope the irony of THIS place not censoring, while the bastions of "free speech" delete like mad is not lost on anyone. Of course NOW this thread will be deleted. I might as well say "jonb" and get it over with.

nothing on the VOA has been deleted. please show me where it was

 

[Nsane1]

Track-

We would agree completely with you (and what you said was highlighted in a note to a region that sent some pretty caustic remarks to their membership), never before have there been multiple large national events, so as a member, this benefits you. You can now get 8 magazines a year, and double insurance coverage (I assume). Basically you get more viper than you can handle.

Don't quote me on this, but we have actually discussed doing a VOI yearly, it will all come down to how successful this one is really, talk about Viper overload!

We're contemplating closing these threads, like Bob said, they don't really help Viper sales, Viper fun, or really fun in general, but don't want to be seen as "censoring".

The bottom line is, we hope the SRT Homecoming event is a huge success, we wish the VOA well in its event in conjunction with the SRT homcoming, and we would hope the same courtesy is extended to us for VOI.

Greg

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Deleted...

 

[Free2go]

If you close the thread, you will be blamed. If you leave it open, you will be blamed.

 

[Nsane1]

Free, you can say that again... Ignore it maybe it will die on its own...

 

[Bobpantax]

A good rule of thumb would be that most people who post and read here do so to learn about Vipers; Viper related topics and the few non car subforums where jokes, discussion of cars other than a Viper,etc. are posted.

The VCA has moved forward and its current leadership tries very hard to respond to the needs of its membership. So any discussion of what the "other club" might or might not be doing only comes off as small and petty. Just as any discussion on the other site regarding the VCA would also come off as small and petty. There are two clubs whose main mission is to support the Viper. I hope that each one would intensely focus on doing so by inspiring people to buy the Gen V.

 

[doctorbob]

Unfortunately, the VOA has represented the SRT Homecoming as their event. It is not and thus the confusion. They are having a "door prize".... an LE but it IS a raffle whether discussed or not. There are two clubs now but I keep seeing comments on the VOA site that they are not the "old club" but it appears that they have not moved on.....and continue to beat a dead horse.

To be honest, it does piss me off (sorry for the bad word) how the VOA has portrayed this event on the VOA website. There is NO acknowledgment that is is an SRT event and they make it appear as it is one of their own creation in conduction with SRT. Somehow the VOA is looking at this as some sort of competition for activities or events which is so childish.

I wholeheartedly agree with BobP on focusing on the car and whatever club you belong.....or both.

 

[johniew398]

typical. You guys don't actually read the post. Since the same guys control both of the other boards, anything anti their point of view is instantly deleted. I hope the irony of THIS place not censoring, while the bastions of "free speech" delete like mad is not lost on anyone. Of course NOW this thread will be deleted. I might as well say "jonb" and get it over with.

Everything you are talking about has nothing to do with the VCA. Why are you trying to make it appear that the VCA is involved in anyway with the activity you are talking about?

 

[GRANGER73]

Is the door prize a raffle?
A raffle is where the organization sells tickets, separately from tickets for admission to an event, and one of the tickets is drawn from all tickets to win a prize. Raffle tickets are tickets sold separately from event tickets. If everyone attending an event is eligible to win a prize drawing, then it’s a door prize, not a raffle.

Key question—were raffle tickets sold separately from event tickets. If yes, it’s a raffle.

 

[speedracervr4]

I followed the link and filled in the info and got no response from SRT. It's about two months away and people have to make plans, I would think SRT would realize this and give prompt responses with invitations.

 

[speedracervr4]

Also you can't find the event on SRT's website unless you follow the link above. I tried searching under events. Srt is really not advertising the event as theirs.

 

[kickinasp]

Lets not BS people here. VOA had their event planned before SRT decided to do something. SRT figured that since they were opening up Conner, Pre-Fix and the Proving grounds for the VOA event, why not do something for the "Viper Owners" who were not able to get into the VOA event due to the 500 people limitation and having to be a VOA member. The SRT event does not include the night dinners, the trip to Frankenmuth, cruise etc., . Also there are no additional ticket sales going on for the Viper, when you enter the VOA event, you automatically are registered for the door prize given away on the final night. 500 people, 1 in 500 chance of winning. But, you must be present to win. So its not a raffle, it is a door prize, so dont portray this as illegal etc., The reason the SRT event is not on their site... is they are still working out the deatils on their event.

 

[Bobpantax]

The VOA came up with the idea for a Homecoming and presented it to SRT. SRT liked the idea. As they should have since it was a good idea. The VOA events are satellite events for the SRT Homecoming. The issue now is what effect, if any, does the Jalopnik story regarding the demise of the SRT brand and the return of the Viper to Dodge's portfolio have. ( The story is true.)I assume that many, like me, responded affirmatively to the email from SRT. We will see what happens.

Under Michigan law, a door prize of this size in connection with a function is deemed to be a "large raffle" but the license fee is only $500.00 and it does not appear to be diificult for a 501(c)(7) organization, which I assume the VOA is, to obtain it. I also assume the Board of the VOA fully vetted this issue through counsel and knows what it is doing.

It is great that there are two well planned events coming up this year that showcase the Viper. Competition is a good thing.

 

[Fangs10]

So they are charging 500 bucks for what some of us did a year ago for the cost of our membership?

 

[Free2go]

Yes, but $500 bucks gets you a 1 in 500 chance of winning. Pretty decent odds. And if your present, there would seem to be less chance of Gremlins entering into the picture. Good for them. I couldn't care if the raffle was illegal...and followed by a giant ****. Like I said before, the divorce is final. People need to quit ******** and get out there and get some strange ass...

 

[Nsane1]

****? A free car and an ****? Holy crap a bargain at twice the price

Can someone give me a verdict on an paid-for-**** being legal?

Thanks for the laugh (and perspective) Free.

Remember this moment when we announce our (very legal) raffle, I will quote your above post when the inevitable arrows are flung our way.