SRT Ram at VOI?

[Y2K5SRT]

Well I certainly can't comment about the discussions at the very top, since I am not privy to them. However I can tell you that the discussion among the regional presidents was almost unanimous in that the SRT Ram was not a Viper and therefor would not be accorded any of the benefits of the VCA unless as an associate member for those regions that allow it. Bottom line: I do not expect the SRT Ram to be an "official" part of the Viper Club at any point, despite the VCA Edition Rams that are out there.

My point on waiting on the track was not on the track itself, but in the long staging lines for each event. Sorry, the VOI is all about VIPERS and I don't think a lot of folks would be thrilled with a bunch of trucks mixed in as they waited for an hour to get on the track. And let me play the "bad guy" role for a minute even though I try to avoid it at all possible costs:

The SRT Ram is NOT a Viper. I don't care what badging, engine, tranny, paintjob, brakes, or anything else is on it or in it. If you take a 5-year-old and point at it and ask, "Is that a Viper?" I guarantee that they will say "NO". Take a blind guy and have him touch the front end and ask him if it is a Viper: He will laugh at you. Is the SRT Ram fast with great braking and an awesome suspension? You betcha! Is it in the same performance category with the Viper? No. It won't beat it on the drag strip, the road course, the autocross, in 0-60, in top speed, or in braking. And it wasn't designed to do that anyway (and don't give me the Mustang argument of "but with a few mods..."). Don't forget the price either: A $45,000 truck (and guys, it is a truck no matter how you slice it) is not the same as an $85,000 sports car. It wouldn't be in the same class at car shows, drag racing, road racing or autocross events. That doesn't mean it is a lesser car to the Viper, what it does mean is that by every single standard out there it is a different type of vehicle entirely. The drivetrain doesn't change that in the slightest.

I am as proud as anybody about what Dodge has done with the Ram. I tried to get a VCA Ram with no luck. Might even have dumped my Viper if I had - but more for financial reasons than anything else. If that had taken place I would NEVER expect to be an "official" part of the Viper Club or any of the events. I would have joined the local club as an associate member and ALWAYS driven at the back of the pack during cruises, etc. It is the VIPER club and the SRT Ram is not a Viper. Snob, no - fact, yes.

Okay, off the soapbox and back to your regularly scheduled programs.

 

[9 seconds]

Sorry....I apologize for being a little sarcastic in my first post.

Hey, I thought you really had one. My sarcasm filter must have been off.

Chris, I don't thing anyone disagrees with you. That truck should never be allowed in the VCA. Now when the ownership numbers increase, someone should think of starting it's own club.

 

[Joseph Houss]

"V" OI

"V" = VIPER!

Great Points Chris!

 

[Jay Herbert]

For some reason, the hyperlink above isn't working.

Try again www.srt10forum.com

looks like this site is down right now..... someone else has reserved http://www.srt10forums.com too... so more on the way.

At some point, someone will step up and get a Ram-SRT club going, like the Dakota RT, Neon SRT (and Lightning as Chris pointed out) folks have done. It takes a critical mass of owners though, 2000 seems to be the minimum as usually only about 20-30% are "club" people.

Some clubs allow a broad range of members like the Shelby American Auto Club, or hot-rod clubs, but most seem to work best by concentrating on one vehicle.

 

[Viperam]

9Seconds, I'll probably bring my SRT-10 to VOI; are you still bringing yours? If I can swing it I might bring both.

 

[9 seconds]

I'll probably bring both. If I go. I need more information. I remember asking myself "Why?" after both Nashville and St.Louis.

 

[Bonkers]

Okay - I think the question got lost somewhere up there.

Are we discussing if its okay to bring your RamSRT or if its okay to bring you RamSRT in lue of your Viper or are we asking if RamSRT owners are directly invited?

For the record I'm for the first but opposed to the latter two...

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Okay - I think the question got lost somewhere up there.

I think the question is, "If a Viper owner brings their SRT Ram, can it partake of the activities just as a Viper might?"

It appears that most do to not want to allow that priviledge, stating that the SRT Ram isn't a Viper. You know, like it isn't obvious, sort of like a dog isn't a chipmunk.

These people are unnice.

I like them, but I don't like their ideas.

 

[Viperam]

As I look back through this thread, I note that it was you that originated it. Why? Did you have an answer already in mind and seek validation through the responses of the forum members? Were you concerned that Ram SRTs might show up and cloud the pool?

I think most have agreed that Viper owners who have both vehicles can bring either one, but that the SRT Ram would not be able to participate in track events. Parades, cross-countries . . . OK. Unless of course its decided that no one may attend unless its in a Viper. Non-Viper rental cars are not acceptable. Yeah, I know. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you actually see it in print or say it out loud.

"It appears that most do to not want to allow that priviledge". Wow, that sounds pretty "unnice" when you think about it. "Privilege"?

And as far as ideas you don't like, I thought that was the purpose for this and all forums; to air and discuss ideas. The original question, which I feel confident has been answered by rational and reasonable heads, evolved to include additional topics. I can't even imagine what it would have been like if this subject had never come up and someone had showed up at VOI with their SRT-10 Ram with the expectation of participating. From that perspective it was a forward thinking and legitimate question. But the peripheral questions that came up need some consideration too. They are issues that will arise in the future and we should discuss and be prepared for them now.

I can't find anywhere in the thread where any of the persons you off-handedly refer to as "unnice". Perhaps it was the general reference to snobs in my post which, if read properly, would include me as well?

Peace brother. When I shake your hand at VOI I'll buy the first round!

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Viperam, sorry, but my attempt at humor obviously missed the mark, which was intended to be like a spoiled kid pouting ---. I wasn't intentionally picking at anyone, especially you. Just thought it would be interesting to see VOI mixed up a little. Variety the spice of life, or whatever that saying. That's all.

Anyway, I'm only 11 posts from 1000! (another attempt)

 

[Viperam]

Sorry if I mis-read.

In any case, let me help in any way I can to help you reach 1K!

 

[pdmracing]

Well, I don't think any snake owner should worry about a SRT-10 Ram on the track. Make no mistake, there's no mistaking the fact that there's a Viper engine under the hood, but the snake's still king at the track. And nothing draws a crowd like a raised hood to see those "Viper" emblazoned valve covers.

As a total aside, and regardless of your feeling about the SRT Ram at events, drive one if you get the chance. What a pleasurable driving experience! PVO did their homework on these babies. And they hug the crowd tenaciously in the twisties so I don't think anyone would be seriously delayed by one on a road course.

We all agree its a nice car/truck/whatever it is, one thing it isnt is a viper. Its a Viper owners invitational, & considering it sells out so quickly, do we really need the SRT truck owners? I know a lot of folks who will have a problem with sharing the track with a truck, regardless of how fast it goes. There are certainly places for them in the club, but I think the VOI isnt one of them.

 

[9 seconds]

Its a Viper owners invitational, & considering it sells out so quickly, do we really need the SRT truck owners?

Wow. We are talking about Viper owners who also own a SRT Ram. Are you suggesting that if you also own a truck you shouldn't attend or did you not read the thread? Also, are you sure the last VOI sold out?

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Also, are you sure the last VOI sold out?

I would venture the last two did not sell out and so will this one!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Its a Viper owners invitational, & considering it sells out so quickly, do we really need the SRT truck owners?

Wow. We are talking about Viper owners who also own a SRT Ram. Are you suggesting that if you also own a truck you shouldn't attend or did you not read the thread? Also, are you sure the last VOI sold out?

Not sure on the sellout status. However, I would venture that he is referring to the SRT trucks presence and not Viper owners. I could not care less what other vehicles someown owns. However, I do care that he is a Viper owner and if he has a vehicle at the VOI that it be a Viper. I am not talking about a vehicle for transportation but for participation. I do not believe any other vehicle, no matter who makes it or what engine it has, should be able to participate.

 

[Viperam]

I am not talking about a vehicle for transportation but for participation. I do not believe any other vehicle, no matter who makes it or what engine it has, should be able to participate.

I gather what you mean here by "participation" the track events. If you plan to exclude Viper owners from other activities because they don't show up in a Viper, you'll be pretty lonely.

Anyone else on here saying that if you plan to come to VOI without your Viper, you can't come?

 

[pdmracing]

No thats not what I said, The VOI is for owners, & the track events should be for Vipers only. Drive whatever you want to the event, but if you are participating in the driving events, then its Vipers only. This isnt an elitest event, its the Viper Owners Invitational. On a regional level, our region is run what you brung, there is a place for everything & everyone & we love the oppertunity to convert brand X owners to the dark side. The last Viperdays @ VIR we had 19 cars from Ga show, with 9 corvettes Zo6's.

At nashville I had 2 members who showed up but could not buy their way into the event.Sold out? you tell me.

 

[Viperam]

Just had to be sure because it seemed that the VERY SAME THING had pretty much been said and generally agreed upon earlier in the thread. I don't want non-Viper owners at Viper events either. And I for one (one of only two people on this whole thread if I'm not counting wrong) wasn't asking to run in the track events anyway. I'm coming from VA. Personally, I prefer 1) the room in my truck and 2) its ride over the Viper for a long trip. Its much more fun, and easier, to drive.


I think we're all saying the same thing here. Some of the side-bar issues that came out along the whole thread may be the source of confusion.

 

[9 seconds]

Well this has been beat to death. If you don't bring your Viper and have to participate in the wait 2 hours and make 2 laps track events, then you can always drive the "loaner" Vipers that Dodge always seems to have at these events and there should be no reason to want to drive anything else. Now, when are we going to know what Dodge has planned for us at this event? Maybe that's another thread and this one should fade away.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I'm coming from VA. Personally, I prefer 1) the room in my truck and 2) its ride over the Viper for a long trip. Its much more fun, and easier, to drive.

Whatever you drive....I hope we get a chance to get a bunch of us together for most of the trip!!

 

[rezin8]

Ok gentlemen, I hate to put my $.02 in, but I think it's time for someone from "our" end of the spectrum to chime in.

We did have an SRT only event last month. Actually, it was the SRT-4 National Meet (key word there is SRT-4), yet EVERY SRT was invited. You want to know how many non SRT-4's showed up? 3. That's it, 3. 2 Rams and 1 Viper (And she owns a GTS too). We had a couple more Snakes show up for the Track Day, but only 2 other SRT-10's. The rest were GTS's. I busted my ass on putting this event together, and all I got from "some" Viper owners was that they didn't want to be at a event with a bunch of "Neon's". I think that's VERY snobbish of some people to say that.

Before it's a Viper or a Neon or an SRT, it's a Dodge, period. Be happy that there are other owners that want to enjoy your company as well as talk shop with some of the "Big Boys". I'm a former Viper owner myself, but I've never been to a VOI. You guys are VERY lucky to have the backing from Dodge that you have. PVO did send some engineers to our event, but only after tons of begging from everyone and their brother. From the looks of it, all the VCA has to do is pick up the phone and they can get what they want. For such a low profit margin car, you guys sure do get Dodge's "favorite child award".

I'm not trying to say that you should allow SRT-4's, SRT-6's, etc. to the event, but look on the SRT-10 Ram's hood. "VIPER POWERED". Maybe you don't want them at the track events, fine. But don't exclude them all together.

Oh, and as for the SRT-4. I know of quite a few that hand quite a few Vipers their asses on both the race track and the drag strip. We made that point painfully obvious at the SRT-4 National Meet.

I'm going to be there regardless, just to check it out and get some ideas for next year's SRT Nationals. I hope to meet a lot of you there and you are ALL invited to the SRT Nationals next year, regardless if it's an SRT, Gen I/II, or a Ram SRT-10.

 

[Viperam]

Greg, thanks for the obvious hard work you put into SRT Nats, and my wife and I both appreciate the warm welcome our SRT-10 Ram got! The after party rocked! Getting to see the Woodhouse Comp Coupe and their whole team was a real plus too; not to mention being able to talk first hand to the PVO guys that designed the SRT line. First class car show brother, and some scorching fast 4-bangers.

If you're gonna be at VOI, I'll save a chair for you at our table. Always happy to hang with a Cajun!

 

[Viperam]

Yeah I saw the thread about the VA/MD convoy. You can count me in even if its just the two of us!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Oh, and as for the SRT-4. I know of quite a few that hand quite a few Vipers their asses on both the race track and the drag strip. We made that point painfully obvious at the SRT-4 National Meet.

Welcome to the Viper forums, I think. The point wasn't that the Dodges should be separated, nor that the SRT-4, SRT-6, SRT-12, SRT-68 or SRT Ram weren't welcome. The point was that it is the VIPER Owners Invitational. It's not a snub to other Dodges and you will find that most Viper owners will staunchly defend the SRT-4 and every other Dodge product against all comers. Nobody is dissing your car or anybody's truck, despite your comment above. The point is simply that Dodge AND the VCA put a lot of money into this invitational - not to mention $600+ per attendee. Invitations are based on Viper VIN's, not Viper-powered trucks, cars, or motorcycles. The entire event is catered to Vipers, from the events to the displays to the memorabilia to the attending vendors. Does that mean that any of us dislike the SRT-4 or the Ram SRT-10? Absolutely not.

What it means very simply is that this event is designed 100% around Vipers. As an SRT-10 owner I am THRILLED that you have a national SRT event and applaud you for your efforts. Sounds like all SRT's were invited, while only three non-SRT-4's showed up. I suspect that is because the event catered to the SRT-4 specifically. And VOI is open to any vehicle of Viper owners, from the old Yugo to the Hummer H2. Just don't expect to participate in any of the track events or the Viper panoramic photo in anything but a Viper. And don't expect to attend it at all unless you are a Viper owner - or are the guest of one. Again, not trying to be a dick about it (note: tried to say "pr1ck" but it was censored!), just stating how the VOI has been set up since it first started a decade ago.

One last rhetorical question: Are Dodge Aries invited to the SRT events? (stay with me here) My guess is that they could come, but are not encouraged to take up space in the track events. For the next national SRT event, should the Viper RT/10 and GTS show up? Technically they are as much "SRT" as the Aries. And if that is the case, why not just call it the Dodge Invitational - or Mopar Nationals? Of course that could REALLY limit the SRT-4's track time if enough of everything else showed up. Is the Ford Lightning pickup truck really a Ford GT? They have the exact same engine, right? And if there is a Ford GT convention should the Lightnings be a part of it? Or maybe the Mustang GT since they share a similar name? Or should it be JUST Ford GT and GT-40's? I know if I attended a Ford GT convention I wouldn't expect to see a bunch of trucks, no matter how much they shared with the GT. No diss to either vehicle, just the way it is.

The point is simply that national meets & invitationals are often designed around a specific make AND model. There is not a single person on this or any other planet over the age of three that would confuse the SRT Ram with the Viper. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME VEHICLE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. This is not an insult towards anybody, Viper owner or not - this is reality.

 

[rezin8]

Actually, the comment about the the SRT-4's handing the Viper's their asses was a joke. There's only maybe 3 or 4 on the planet that can do it consistantly. I thought a lot of you would have caught on to it. To answer your rhetorical question, your guess is right. And for the next meet, sure the RT/10's and GTS's are MORE than welcome to come AND run at the track events. We enjoy the company of other owners of SPECIALTY Dodge Vehicles, and everyone is curious as to what they can do. This goes for Prowlers as well. If you show up at our event in a Shelby GLHS, that's fine. It was a specialty vehicle and there's not that many still on the roads (compared to 1987).

Also, I was not aware that the invitations were sent out by VIN number. Excuse me for my ignorance.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

We are cool, so don't sweat it. The issue really comes down to two things:

1. The VOI is indeed based on Viper VIN's - not even VCA membership per se. So it is a "closed" invitation and you are badged for everything, including dinners, etc. You could "join up" in the cruise, only because it is impossible to "police" a line of 300+ Vipers for 50 miles. Any Mustang, Yugo, or minivan can join in that event once it is underway. They just won't get any of the "prizes" along the way without credentials - which are Viper VIN based.

2. The SRT Ram is an incredible truck. I look forward to seeing them on the road, just like I love seeing the SRT-4 zip on by. Eventually they will outnumber the Viper, at least during the production year. Figure double the number of Vipers produced. Now when 600-800 Vipers show up at an Invitational, things can be a little "crowded" for most of the track events, with a decent wait for each. Add the very real fact that 1200-1600 attendees will sell out all but a handful of hotels in the world, and you have some real challenges. The price (which is now indicated to be over $700 per person) will discourage many from coming, but it will still be very near capacity. Open it up to another 3000 trucks and maybe the SRT line as a whole, and it simply wouldn't work the way the current VOI's are designed to work. We already split the attendees into four groups and have used up virtually every minute of the weekend. By opening it up to even one single VCA Ram for the track events, then you open the floodgates for ALL SRT Rams. Just like your point, by allowing even one "specialty" car, you are allowing them all. Not a bad thing by any means, but now you will inevitably be taking away spots from Viper owners at the very invitational that is designed for them. That is the dilemma and there is no way to politically address it without looking like a schmuck. I guess that is me.

I hope to see you at one of your meets and appreciate the invitation. Should you ever be in the Kansas City area, look me up and I will get you involved with the KC Viper Club. And feel free to kick my ass at the track, as there is already a video floating around the Net of a Mustang 4-****** beating my GTS. I would rather lose to an SRT-4 any day!

 

[pdmracing]

[quote

I think some are afraid that the trucks will be faster on the track or will get more attention.

.

[/QUOTE]

Or maybe they are afraid of getting T boned by the 4000lb ram on the track events