Frank 03SRT
Enthusiast
Since the GT-40 is going to be reality, do you all think it will dust the SRT in straight line acceleration and track use? I'm talking stock to stock.
SRT vs GT-40
- Thread starter Frank 03SRT
- Start date
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
This is one of those pointless "what if" deals that we have no way of connecting with reality until BOTH vehicles are tested by magazines, or by REAL OWNERS on the road or track.
Sorry for the cynical outlook Frank (and other folks), but I get tired of the constant conjecture and pointless questions asked about the SRT. Dodge isn't going to say diddly-squat officially for months yet, and they darned sure aren't going to let any of us take one for a spin, or put it up on a lift to study until we lay down five-figure large and sign the sales documents.
Ferguson is going to be "The Mouth" of PVO and we all know what a treasure trove of reliable technical info he is...
Sorry for the cynical outlook Frank (and other folks), but I get tired of the constant conjecture and pointless questions asked about the SRT. Dodge isn't going to say diddly-squat officially for months yet, and they darned sure aren't going to let any of us take one for a spin, or put it up on a lift to study until we lay down five-figure large and sign the sales documents.
Ferguson is going to be "The Mouth" of PVO and we all know what a treasure trove of reliable technical info he is...
MES
Enthusiast
Given that both cars will have the same HP and the GT-40 weighs less the GT-40 will spank the SRT given the same driver/day/track/etc.
I think the GT-40 should be compared to the comp coupe, and not the SRT-10. They are closer in price, weight and they are both hard top coupes. We all know who will come above in that race.
Comp coupe will probably cost $50K less, with more hp and tq. O ya, and its normally aspirated, so you can still add a blower.
But to be honest, i would still rather take the GT-40.
Comp coupe will probably cost $50K less, with more hp and tq. O ya, and its normally aspirated, so you can still add a blower.
But to be honest, i would still rather take the GT-40.
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Dean, PR is the reason that information has yet to hit the street. PVO is busting at the seems waiting for the info to get out, but PR is one area that they have absolutely no say so in.
As for me being the mouth of PVO? How could someone with my mechanical deficiencies ever come close to that title? The only thing I do with PVO is ask questions and find out information (that I can understand)and then pass it along if I can? I think you better e-name me "the filter"!
As for me being the mouth of PVO? How could someone with my mechanical deficiencies ever come close to that title? The only thing I do with PVO is ask questions and find out information (that I can understand)and then pass it along if I can? I think you better e-name me "the filter"!
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
Steve, I think PVO has chosen the perfect "filter."
Just kiddin' ya, bud!
Just kiddin' ya, bud!
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Now I feel like Mr.Coffee!
Back to the question at hand. If the GT40 gets out next year, and that is a BIG if, you can bet that there are going to be plenty of comparisons all over the place. Once I get mine I will be more than interested to run it up against some of the different Viper's just to see the what each one offers. It's nice that the Viper will finally have someone to play with.
Back to the question at hand. If the GT40 gets out next year, and that is a BIG if, you can bet that there are going to be plenty of comparisons all over the place. Once I get mine I will be more than interested to run it up against some of the different Viper's just to see the what each one offers. It's nice that the Viper will finally have someone to play with.
Daffy
Enthusiast
If the GT40 is what it is today (show), then you'd think it would have an advantage, but looking at the pics I've seen I'd say they need to widen those back tires or the GT40 will be a great tire melter - while looking at the rear of the SRT. Of course if they re-visit the '99 Cobra mess, the GT40 will be missing horsepower so it'll be slower
Sorry, I'm a long time mustang guy (5 of them, 3 cobra's) & went through a nightmare with my '99. I'm actually teasing with the idea of a 2002 Cobra Convertible, 390hp & 390 torque, if it really comes with that power, I'd personally take that over the M3 conv and get back to having a Pony / other snake in my garage again. Hmm, a near 400 horse Mustang next to my 500+ horse viper, sounds nice to me. (and of course a 5 year old jetta in the driveway for raindays).
Oops, supposed to be talking about the GT40, sorry.
Dave.
Sorry, I'm a long time mustang guy (5 of them, 3 cobra's) & went through a nightmare with my '99. I'm actually teasing with the idea of a 2002 Cobra Convertible, 390hp & 390 torque, if it really comes with that power, I'd personally take that over the M3 conv and get back to having a Pony / other snake in my garage again. Hmm, a near 400 horse Mustang next to my 500+ horse viper, sounds nice to me. (and of course a 5 year old jetta in the driveway for raindays).
Oops, supposed to be talking about the GT40, sorry.
Dave.
mchafin
Enthusiast
Acoording to this article
http://www.bonforums.com/cars/gt40_engines022702.htm
Ford still hasn't made up it's mind on the engine. It would rock if they put a V10 or V12 in there!
Mike
http://www.bonforums.com/cars/gt40_engines022702.htm
Ford still hasn't made up it's mind on the engine. It would rock if they put a V10 or V12 in there!
Mike
jamie furman
Enthusiast
I am a viper owner and lover, but I can tell you there is no way that Ford will let the GT40 come out not be the fastest american car when it comes out.I wouldn't be so sure Mash if the comp coupe would be ready for it either, we will just have to wait and see.But the last time Ford wanted to rule the roost with the GT40 I beleive it concoured all and won 4 world titles in a row, and I think I read that is there objective again.I don't see how a car that small and light with at least if not more than 500 hp could not totally dominate everything out there.I have also read on a Ford website that they are thinking about putting the same 427 engine in it the Saleen uses in his new car naturally aspirated putting out over 550hp.Like I said we will just wait and see.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
My conjecture is this:
The GT-40, if it comes out weighing less than the Viper and having an equally or more powerful engine, will be *well* on the high side of $100k. I really don't think Ford is going to make that car with 500-550hp for less than $100k or so. I hope it is competitive with the SRT in price, because if it's too much more, it won't be seen as a Viper competitor, and Dodge won't feel the need to enter into a HP war with it - which I would like them to do.
My question would be - at what power level do "sensible" car companies stop selling cars? Would Dodge even consider a 600hp, 3000lb Viper? Or is that the realm of Ferrari and McLaren? What about 650hp? I mean, when does it end? I just hope Dodge would not roll over and admit defeat.
The GT-40, if it comes out weighing less than the Viper and having an equally or more powerful engine, will be *well* on the high side of $100k. I really don't think Ford is going to make that car with 500-550hp for less than $100k or so. I hope it is competitive with the SRT in price, because if it's too much more, it won't be seen as a Viper competitor, and Dodge won't feel the need to enter into a HP war with it - which I would like them to do.
My question would be - at what power level do "sensible" car companies stop selling cars? Would Dodge even consider a 600hp, 3000lb Viper? Or is that the realm of Ferrari and McLaren? What about 650hp? I mean, when does it end? I just hope Dodge would not roll over and admit defeat.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
Dean,
I may be guilty of furthering the "useless conjecture" you hate - however I have an ulterior motive. There are a *lot* of people who visit this site who have information that isn't always widely disseminable (is that a word?), but sometimes in the "useless conjecture" threads, the truth surfaces.
Plus, I think it's fun to speculate... partly to see how right and wrong I am about various things, and also to pass the time. If all we discussed was hard facts, there would be about one relevant post in this forum per month.
I may be guilty of furthering the "useless conjecture" you hate - however I have an ulterior motive. There are a *lot* of people who visit this site who have information that isn't always widely disseminable (is that a word?), but sometimes in the "useless conjecture" threads, the truth surfaces.
Plus, I think it's fun to speculate... partly to see how right and wrong I am about various things, and also to pass the time. If all we discussed was hard facts, there would be about one relevant post in this forum per month.
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Mike, come on, I saw TWO facts in February! LOL
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
Jamie,
I think that a major point here is that Ford suddenly remembered what DC just as suddenly forgot - that STYLE has a LOT to do with the desirability and gawk factor of a car. Frankly, the car-buying public seems to like compound curves, even at the expense of aerodynamics. The GT-40's aero package may have been cutting edge in the mid-60's, but like the original Viper, it takes a toll on hp. Does this "deficiency" negatively affect the desirability of the Ford? NO! Will Ford once again return to the racetracks with factory-backed, 40 year old racecars? I seriously doubt it!
Will NASCAR finally realize that what they define as "stock cars" are NOT, and that they should be racing moderately modified Vipers, Vettes and GT-40's as "stock cars?" nope!
I think that a major point here is that Ford suddenly remembered what DC just as suddenly forgot - that STYLE has a LOT to do with the desirability and gawk factor of a car. Frankly, the car-buying public seems to like compound curves, even at the expense of aerodynamics. The GT-40's aero package may have been cutting edge in the mid-60's, but like the original Viper, it takes a toll on hp. Does this "deficiency" negatively affect the desirability of the Ford? NO! Will Ford once again return to the racetracks with factory-backed, 40 year old racecars? I seriously doubt it!
Will NASCAR finally realize that what they define as "stock cars" are NOT, and that they should be racing moderately modified Vipers, Vettes and GT-40's as "stock cars?" nope!
TacDoc
Enthusiast
Daffy,
I agree with you, the GT40 gets the nod for overall looks, but I prefer the convertable aspect of the SRT-10. As for the 2003 Cobra, I put my order in for a Silver ragtop and a Mineral Grey hardtop, the 2001 Cobra convertable I have is a great all-weather ride, but who can turn down 70 extra ponies and a better suspension, not to mention the bigger footprint. I just wish they had kept forged rims. I do not get my GTS out much this time of year, and with 2 kids the Cobra does offer the back seat. Summer is coming though and the GTS will be on the streets soon. I am driving my wife nuts this year with my car switches. I think she is going to make the GTS go away when the SRT-10 arrives, so the 03 Cobra Hardtop will be the only car left to use for SCCA SOLO 1 events.
I agree with you, the GT40 gets the nod for overall looks, but I prefer the convertable aspect of the SRT-10. As for the 2003 Cobra, I put my order in for a Silver ragtop and a Mineral Grey hardtop, the 2001 Cobra convertable I have is a great all-weather ride, but who can turn down 70 extra ponies and a better suspension, not to mention the bigger footprint. I just wish they had kept forged rims. I do not get my GTS out much this time of year, and with 2 kids the Cobra does offer the back seat. Summer is coming though and the GTS will be on the streets soon. I am driving my wife nuts this year with my car switches. I think she is going to make the GTS go away when the SRT-10 arrives, so the 03 Cobra Hardtop will be the only car left to use for SCCA SOLO 1 events.
Daffy
Enthusiast
Mark O,
Not having seen either in person, my vote goes to A (GT40). By a lot! Hey, wait a minute, I just ordered my SRT, um I think I have a dangling chad on my vote.
Dave.
Not having seen either in person, my vote goes to A (GT40). By a lot! Hey, wait a minute, I just ordered my SRT, um I think I have a dangling chad on my vote.
Dave.
Tom and Vipers
Enthusiast
The real weakness of the GT40 is that it has a...er, well...a truck engine.
(well, at least it's a Lightning...)
(well, at least it's a Lightning...)
SnakeBitten
Enthusiast
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomatper:
The real weakness of the GT40 is that it has a...er, well...a truck engine.
(well, at least it's a Lightning...)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha....The Viper will soon share that distinction. SRT Ram...Or maybe it already does...Its engine was based on a truck engine...
The real weakness of the GT40 is that it has a...er, well...a truck engine.
(well, at least it's a Lightning...)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha....The Viper will soon share that distinction. SRT Ram...Or maybe it already does...Its engine was based on a truck engine...
jamie furman
Enthusiast
Well I wouldn't call it a truck engine since it was in lincolns and mustangs first, but that being said I know of a pretty awesome car that has a truck based engine also can you guess what it is? But who cares where the engine sat first its a 4valve supercharged engine making 550 hp in a 2800 pound car enough said. I have read like I stated the engine is still up in the air and my guess is they would not use a sc engine in that car if they want to race it and alot of fords end up on the race track. In the looks department only a blind man a fool or a loyalist could pretend not to see the beauty. A car that sits only 44"s high and has a power to weight ratio of the GT40 I hardly think aerodynamics will be a factor look how a gts does with alot less. I really don't think anything, euro or american will have much of a challenge for the 40 if it comes out with that big power and that light weight on the track, or anywhere else for that matter.And I say why not speculate? Keeps things interesting nobody ever has any problem saying what the competition can't do what about what it might due, one thing for sure its become a reality not a dream.
Coulthard Fan
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomatper:
The real weakness of the GT40 is that it has a...er, well...a truck engine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The real weakness of the GT40 is the name. How many people really have any clue what a GT40 is or was. Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is and they will probably tell you it is a kind of laundry detergent.
Sure, as a release date gets closer it will get press, but I think it will NEVER gain the name recognition of the Viper (its prime competition), or of Ferrari, which it was ironically built to humiliate. Reality is that all these cars depend to some extent on name cachet to move the cars off the showroom floor, and I think down deep people like it when others fear your car's name.
The real weakness of the GT40 is that it has a...er, well...a truck engine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The real weakness of the GT40 is the name. How many people really have any clue what a GT40 is or was. Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is and they will probably tell you it is a kind of laundry detergent.
Sure, as a release date gets closer it will get press, but I think it will NEVER gain the name recognition of the Viper (its prime competition), or of Ferrari, which it was ironically built to humiliate. Reality is that all these cars depend to some extent on name cachet to move the cars off the showroom floor, and I think down deep people like it when others fear your car's name.
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coulthard Fan:
The real weakness of the GT40 is the name. How many people really have any clue what a GT40 is or was. Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is and they will probably tell you it is a kind of laundry detergent.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was a GT class car and it was 40 inches high.
The real weakness of the GT40 is the name. How many people really have any clue what a GT40 is or was. Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is and they will probably tell you it is a kind of laundry detergent.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was a GT class car and it was 40 inches high.
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Scott you must be way young and not into any American racing history. The GT40 was the most dominate race car of it's time. If you ever followed the Cobra (which most Viper owners admire) then knowing what a GT40 is or was would be expected.
The reason some may have just recently discovered the GT40 is because of Viper. When Viper started dominating LeMauns, the name GT40 name jumped back into the forefront, since it was the last dominate American Racing legend. And yes, the GT40 has a better racing heritage than your RX7.
You might consider sticking with the rice products since you obviously know nothing about American Performance Icons!
The reason some may have just recently discovered the GT40 is because of Viper. When Viper started dominating LeMauns, the name GT40 name jumped back into the forefront, since it was the last dominate American Racing legend. And yes, the GT40 has a better racing heritage than your RX7.
You might consider sticking with the rice products since you obviously know nothing about American Performance Icons!
Coulthard Fan
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
Scott you must be way young and not into any American racing history. ... You might consider sticking with the rice products since you obviously know nothing about American Performance Icons!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steve,
When I said: "Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is" I was referring to the general population, not myself. I am a card carrying member of the SCCA and huge sports car racing fan, as you may have noticed from my screen name. What I do know is that if you are like me, we are in a minority and automotive companies almost always seem to loose money when they make cars for us.
As for sticking to rice products? OK, whatever. I consider myself sufficiently openminded to like all sports cars no matter who makes them, be it the British, Americans, Italians, or the Germans. If you are a true lover of cars I would think you would do the same. I just happen to still have an RX7 since I picked it up when I was a poor law student and it is a fun track/street car. When I've used it up, I have an open mind as to what I'll step up to next. (The current top of the list is a GTS, hence my presence on this board.)
That said, its true I was just a gleam in my parents eye when guys like Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt Jr. and Jacky Ickx were dominating that little race in northwestern France.
Scott you must be way young and not into any American racing history. ... You might consider sticking with the rice products since you obviously know nothing about American Performance Icons!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steve,
When I said: "Ask anyone who is not a complete motorhead or sportscar racing ****** what GT40 is" I was referring to the general population, not myself. I am a card carrying member of the SCCA and huge sports car racing fan, as you may have noticed from my screen name. What I do know is that if you are like me, we are in a minority and automotive companies almost always seem to loose money when they make cars for us.
As for sticking to rice products? OK, whatever. I consider myself sufficiently openminded to like all sports cars no matter who makes them, be it the British, Americans, Italians, or the Germans. If you are a true lover of cars I would think you would do the same. I just happen to still have an RX7 since I picked it up when I was a poor law student and it is a fun track/street car. When I've used it up, I have an open mind as to what I'll step up to next. (The current top of the list is a GTS, hence my presence on this board.)
That said, its true I was just a gleam in my parents eye when guys like Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt Jr. and Jacky Ickx were dominating that little race in northwestern France.
Vic
VCA Venom Member
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It seems that if anyone on this board even so much as mentions any other car, be it rice, domestic, or otherwise, he is jumped on and beat up as a traitor.
Many who come here are snake bit, and come here because they either want to own a Viper, or just admire it from afar.
Every Viper owner is an ambassador for the Viper Nation, especially VCA members, and should welcome visitors. Yes, this is our board, and the disscussion is all about Vipers. But not all those who come here to chat own Vipers yet. I was one of those, in fact, before I bought my GTS, I was critical of the Viper. (Extreme denial stage) Now I love it, of course. I judged Viper owners partly by the responses to my criticisms, and most showed their true colors as well balanced, mature, reasonable people, who I am now proud to associate with.
OK, maybe that "well-balanced" description is inappropriate! OK, maybe none of those adjectives fit the Viper owner...hmmm...let me think of something positive.......
I'll be back later...
Many who come here are snake bit, and come here because they either want to own a Viper, or just admire it from afar.
Every Viper owner is an ambassador for the Viper Nation, especially VCA members, and should welcome visitors. Yes, this is our board, and the disscussion is all about Vipers. But not all those who come here to chat own Vipers yet. I was one of those, in fact, before I bought my GTS, I was critical of the Viper. (Extreme denial stage) Now I love it, of course. I judged Viper owners partly by the responses to my criticisms, and most showed their true colors as well balanced, mature, reasonable people, who I am now proud to associate with.
OK, maybe that "well-balanced" description is inappropriate! OK, maybe none of those adjectives fit the Viper owner...hmmm...let me think of something positive.......
I'll be back later...
CitySnake
Enthusiast
At the NYC show, a Ford "person" (you know, Ford nameplate with Don written across it) claimed that the GT40 was expected to be priced in the $80,000 range. If this is true, which I doubt is possible after seeing the car, it puts the SRT in an interesting comparative position. Somewhat similar in nature (just SIMILAR - NOT EXACT) to today's Viper/Vette comparison. The SRT would be the practical car (one handed closing top and a trunk) and the GT40 would take on the comparative role of today's Viper - the "not for everyone" motorcar. If anything could be MORE impractical (impractical = designed for a singular use)than a Viper, it would seem to be the GT40. From the looks of it you may not even have room for taking your wallet along for a drive!
Regardless, seeing it stirred up the some of the same feelings that I had when I first saw the Viper in '92. Exciting, exhilarating looking car!
PS- The SRT hood is really disappointing (although apparently much easier and less expensive to repair/replace). Louvers are nearly invisible and there are no speakers.
Regardless, seeing it stirred up the some of the same feelings that I had when I first saw the Viper in '92. Exciting, exhilarating looking car!
PS- The SRT hood is really disappointing (although apparently much easier and less expensive to repair/replace). Louvers are nearly invisible and there are no speakers.
Ron Weickart
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I caught the Ford GT40 at the NY show over the weekend. In my opinion the car was "best of show".
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Just to comment on some of the speculation that Ford's goal with the GT-40 ( or should I say GT-44 ) is, along with the street implications, to make it a dominate car on the track again, I don't think that is going to happen. Ford is right now putting their efforts into F1 with the JAG nameplate and has a very loooong way to go to prove their superiority against other world manufacturers. With all the money and technical resources involved in that effort, I believe the GT-44 will be well over $100K ( due to the ga ga public reaction & limited production ) and not the dominate performance icon it was originally. Another main reason for the GT-44 is to get the public to associate the Ford image with something other than the Explorer/Firestone debacle.
Andrew2KRT10
Enthusiast
If I had an extra 50K burning a hole in my pocket, I'd trade in my 2000 RT/10 in a second and get a GT-40. NO Doubt! If I had an extra 150, I'd have both.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
This whole GT-40 might just be a whole lot of nothing. According to May 2002 Road &Track "it is believed Ford will limit output to about 100 cars with the possible involvement of Pininfarina in Italy."
With only about a hundred cars produced the car may be little more than a publicity stunt.
With expected collector interest and prices doomed to be far above sticker, few viper owners will be interested. Mostly destined for museums as showpieces. Few will ever see the track.
With only about a hundred cars produced the car may be little more than a publicity stunt.
With expected collector interest and prices doomed to be far above sticker, few viper owners will be interested. Mostly destined for museums as showpieces. Few will ever see the track.
