SRT10 with V8 ?

[fred]

Has anyone here heard the "rumor" that 05 will probably be the last year for the V10? I was told that in 06 a 6.1 V8 with "Supercharger" will be the new engine for the viper. Also heard that DC will offer a "Luxury" version of the Viper to compete with the MB SL series and the Caddilac XR? (2 door roadster). That car would have luxury features similar to cars mentioned above. The "Luxury" version will be in addition to the sport Viper. If this is true than it appears the DC has a new vision for the Viper that will change it forever from what we knew. Whether that is a good or bad thing remains to be seen but, with the market place changing DC must be preparing the car for the changing enviroment to come???

 

[Neil - UK]

I also heard this to at VOI, the very same question was put to a Dodge guy during one of the technical meetings, apprantly he didnt deny it just talked his way around the question without giving anything away.

 

[SylvanSRT]

Lutz was the one that said the viper will always have a v-10 and he is gone so anything maybe possible.

 

[AviP]

Wouldn't surprise me because there seems to be a lack of vision as is evident in the Gen III design. It's also possible that they are hitting the horsepower limits on the V10 (keeping 7/100K warranty issues in mind) without increasing the engine size. In either case it would be a shame.

 

[SRTRICKY]

one of the main things viper's are known for are the huge v10s in em...great job on ruining the viper!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

IBkompressor

 

[Snakester]

Well it's clear that the FirePower concept would be the luxury coupe with a V8, and it will be shown at the NAIAS show in January.

But it's clearly a foolish move to ditch the V10 motor as it defines the Viper.

Still, I'm not sure that I would not put it past Daimler to try and complete the takeover of Chrysler by replacing all of the Dodge bits with Mercedes components, rather than working with what they have got.

The Prowler fell to the Crossfire (which is a rebodied Mercedes SLK), and D/C decided to build the unaffordable ME412 rather than bolting on a pair of twin turbos to the Viper.

So in a worst-case senario, they could redo the Viper into a SL500 model, and SL55 variant for $20K less than the Mercedes branded model, with Viper-like bodywork/styling.

It wouldn't really be a Viper any more, which would be a great loss, but I hope that if that becomes D/C's plan that we can convince them otherwise.

Remember that Ford had clear plans to build the Mustang on a Probe chassis and replace the V8 with a turbocharged V6 instead, but the Ford diehard fans killed that idea, and the Mustang has dominated the Ponycar market, and had great sales since. With a high point being the supercharged V8 SVT Cobra!

I hope that D/C goes the same way by adding a supercharger option to the Viper's V10, moving it further upmarket to run against the Ford GT, and Europe's best performance cars.

 

[DodgeViper01]

That is pretty interesting. I would imagine it would be true because around 2007 or 2008 the emissions get VERY strict nationwide. A supercharged V8? That is an interesting idea. Worse case is the Viper gets the Mercedes SL55 Engine at 469 HP. Hum.... An idea? Maybe.

 

[Ooomph]

Worse case is the Viper gets the Mercedes SL55 Engine at 469 HP. Hum.... An idea? Maybe.

I'd rather (if it had to have a Mercedes motor at all) it be the 6-liter V-12 bi-turbo from the SL65. 604hp@5500rpm and (our favorite thing) 738tq@2000rpm.

edit: I have no idea why these numbers came up as email addy's...

 

[DT04R]

That would be an idea if you need to scrub the V10 (even though that makes me a little queasy...) Though I wonder why you couldn't get good clean power out of the V10 with some forced induction - I would think you could trim the cam down slightly, add 4-5lbs of boost, and have 600HP? Maybe the support components (cats, electronics, etc.) would be too costly to re-engineer.

I'd rather (if it had to have a Mercedes motor at all) it be the 6-liter V-12 bi-turbo from the SL65. 604hp@5500rpm">604hp@5500rpm</a> and (our favorite thing) <a href="mailto:738tq@2000rpm.

Yeah, you know what's even weirder? I emailed the first address and got back:

"Hi, you've reached the Mercedes horsepower, however, I'm currently on vacation. If you need immediate assistance, my torque is always available..."

edit: I have no idea why these numbers came up as email addy's...

 

[Vic]

The email boldface shows up because of the "@" sign, which is commonly part of email addresses. I think its in the script of the board.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Gotta love the SL65. Great car but too much money for a car that looks like a regular SL500. If I have $200,000, I am going to buy a Diablo 6.0 or Ferrari 550/575 and take the left over cash and put it in my pocket.

 

[onerareviper]

The HP limit of the N/A 8.3L V10 is not even close. Remember the SEMA car (intake and minor bolt ons) made 625HP. I feel 650 HP is doable in the V10 from the factory and keeping it dead reliable and under warrantee. Time will tell, I guess, but the only other motor I would get a little excited over that currently exist is the V12 bi-turbo. And it seems they are trying to cut cost on the Viper, and this combo would seem to increase the cost. So I doubt the V12 would be considered. Here's the silver lining: The 8.0 and 8.3 Liter Vipers would increase in value - big time, if they go with a smaller motor. Something about cubes..... Cubes baby, cubes....

 

[Jim Z]

I think there's a good chance the V-10 will be scuttled. For one, it's the last of the LA series engines (239/318/360/488). It's extremely expensive to build, since it has no common architecture anymore with other Chrysler engines. This is also one reason I don't see them going with a hopped-up Benz motor, since it'll be just as if not more costly.

Additionally, it's assembled at CAAP and I can't see CAAP staying open much longer. I'm willing to bet that Viper production will move to a specialty builder within a few years, and CAAP will close.

That said, I rather like the idea of a hemi-powered Viper. IMHO I've never liked the sound of the V-10. If the 6.1 liter hemi can hold up the power (which it can),) it'll be a substantial cost benefit.

 

[VIPR GTS]

We have been told that the Firepower is not meant to be a Viper replacement, just the potential for another use of product lines.

 

[SylvanSRT]

maybe a supercharged version of the SRT8 motor (425 hp in 300C trim), who knows maybe over 600+supercharger and intercooled? The headlines read "Viper Gets a HEMI!".

 

[Hans Christian]

I thought they were looking at a V10 version of the HEMI ??

 

[ivanrho]

What I've heard is this................

Because of such strict EPA and CARB restrictions for 06 and beyond, the displacement will definately come down from 8.3L to possibly a 6.0L however, the V10 will always remain. To compensate for the drop in cubes, they will add most likely a supercharger. That's the deal. Plus, DC has the current engine only certified until '05. What does that tell you??

Any bets?

 

[RavenFan_94]

Good info Ivan.

I can imagine they will end up with similar performance from a more effecient power plant.

This will further distance the Viper from its roots and ultimately bring upon more discension within the older generation owners.

Which probably is a good thing for the company and its profit line.

While the appeal for the older cars may be wider, I don't think it hits the demographic that they are looking for. In order to sell 2500+ cars, the appeal needs to broaden and include more amenities.

I am speculating obviously, but I would enjoy this as the Vipers long term direction.

 

[ivanrho]

Great comments.

My honest feelings are that as long as they meet their HP and Speed goals, then we should all be happy campers. Who'd ever thought that a SC E55 would take the world by storm. And now it's the SL65, and the SLR that all have power adders. In order for a car to do over 200MPH, in 3 years, just think of what or how big that engine must be. Or just take a look at the Ford GT. 5.4L with a SC. 550HP and 500lbs/ft. Detroit Auto Show is coming soon. It's my guess we should know something then. And I think we're all going to be surprised, a little.

 

[Hisserman]

The latest rumor is that there won't be a new Viper shown at the Detroit show (lots of speculation as to why). One reason may be that they don't want to distract from the new (4 door) Charger they are going to unveil (yawn!). The same rumor mill has it that the Viper Coupe is going to be shown at the LA show in January. Stay tuned . . .

 

[SylvanSRT]

i think the NAIS(DET) runs concurrently w/ the L.A. auto show.

 

[Epro]

I say that's an unbelievably dumb idea. Someone probably got confused when they saw the SRT-8 on the charger concept and somehow twisted it... It can't be true, and it had better not be! After all the 2006 prototype is suppost to kick around 600 horses, right?

 

[MoparMan]

The Los Angeles auto show and the Detroit auto show do not run concurrently this year - the L.A. show precedes the Detroit show.

I was told that the coupe will debut in L.A. and will also be shown in Detroit. I would expect the new taxi cab shaped four door Charger to debut in Detroit.

 

[viper GTS-R]

Does Chrysler ever listen to us? Seriously I bet this whole club could create a better Charger rather than that 4 door 300C Dodge. I understand emissions and their ratings but I totally beleve that if Chrysler would AT LEAST hear us out just once something really good would come out.

IF the viper does end up with a V8 will competition be tougher?

Plus there's so many positives and negatives to this topic. Like if there's a V8 in the car it's lighter right? I know it's a rumor but it's one that should be taken seriously. Think about how many Sir Hisses there could be!

 

[Jim Z]

Seriously I bet this whole club could create a better Charger rather than that 4 door 300C Dodge.

with what budget?

 

[GTS Bruce]

A Viper is a V-10 car.Drop in a V8 and its DEAD.You can't beat a GM v8.Might be time to shrink wrap the real Vipers(V-10) and leave them in our family wills.RIP VIPER(V-10) and pay for our retirement,grand kids college etc. GTS Bruce

 

[Hisserman]

I think there could be an argument for the V8 Firepower concept. Notice that I didn't say V8 Viper. Everyone jumped on the V8 Viper thing because the press releases on the Firepower said that it was built on the Viper frame. It's easy to see why that would be, because that frame is little more than a go kart frame and it would be the easiest one to start with on a new concept car.

Now back to the argument for the V8 concept -- first of all, Dodge needs a lower priced car to serve as an entry concept to the Viper. It's a big step from an SRT-4 to a Viper and they need a bridge to bring on younger buyers up to the Viper level (they lose too many to the mid priced Vettes). Secondly, such a mid priced car could give them some volume sales to help underwrite the whole Viper/SRT program. If they packaged it well, including the whole range from the SRT-4, Firepower (or whatever), and Viper with some real ADVERTISING and proper courting of the auto magazines, etc. they might really have something.

I agree they shouldn't even consider a V8 in a Viper, but who says that the Viper couldn't have a little brother -- like Corvette is going to have the Solstice!

 

[Hans Christian]

Hisserman

Excellent view - I agree 100%

 

[Lawrenzo]

Great comments.

My honest feelings are that as long as they meet their HP and Speed goals, then we should all be happy campers. Who'd ever thought that a SC E55 would take the world by storm. And now it's the SL65, and the SLR that all have power adders. In order for a car to do over 200MPH, in 3 years, just think of what or how big that engine must be. Or just take a look at the Ford GT. 5.4L with a SC. 550HP and 500lbs/ft. Detroit Auto Show is coming soon. It's my guess we should know something then. And I think we're all going to be surprised, a little.

One biiiig problem with this arguement- it has been widely advertised that AMG will no longer be using power adders going forward. They have decided that naturally aspirated motors will be their future, so it seem counterintuitive to think that they would go just the opposite way with the Viper