SRTs only mid-12s at Englishtown...comments?

[George Murray]

I didn't see all SRT-10 drag runs, but I saw a best of 12.5 @ 115 mph. Were there any quicker Gen III runs that I missed?

Jamie Furman commented to me that he feels the SRT torque band is less suited for drag racing than the Gen II cars. Of course, these were all low-mileage cars

I did notice, however, that all the cars seemed a 1/2 second or so off from what I'm used to seeing (stock) Gen II cars run.

In any event, I got an eliminator trophy with my '99. Redlighted final run...first drag trophy in over 20 years, so I'm all happy & stuff. Even with my flatspooted tires from the Auto X course. 310 mile drive home on those.

Great event. I highly recommend the Zone Rendezvous.

 

[Joseph Houss]

It seemed that the average stock Gen 2 time was 12.8 ... and the SRT's were running 12.5's, even with me driving (read: lousy drag racer)

 

[pdmracing]

I know the flatspot dance! I drove the 500 plus miles from the last zone in orlando, I needed new fillings

 

[George Murray]

There were some nines in the 1/8 mile...

 

[jamie furman]

I agree that a srt will run low 12's with some practice but the off idle torque just isn't there like the gen2 and the mph is not there either. I won't dispute that the motor is as strong as a gen 2, but its not nearly as user friendly as a gen2 in the quarter. A new srt 10 modified with 537 rwhp ran a best of 11.84 at 120 and that was after several passes and I was able to run a 11.29 at 123.7 in mark browns 490 rwhp 98 gts on my second pass in the car, also setting low et of the meet and that is a car with a heffner head package and gears being the only drivetrain mods.The Srt 10 on the same dyno making 40 hp more was nowhere near the et of the gts proving my point of the srt 10 being much harder to get down the track.

 

[GR8_ASP]

So Jamie how was Motor Trend able to do a sub 11.8 in a stock SRT? Adding 100 RWHP to that has to increase the speed.

 

[J DAWG]

Motor Trend

John Myrick

Track conditions and driver's skill play a huge roll in times.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Yes, but tell me how a modified SRT with 537 RWHP can trap at only 120 mph when a stock one traps at around 123? 537 RWHP should be more than 130 mph trap speed.

Variation in et due to driving ability is definite. However, a dramatic change in mph is not.

 

[J DAWG]

Yes, but tell me how a modified SRT with 537 RWHP can trap at only 120 mph when a stock one traps at around 123? 537 RWHP should be more than 130 mph trap speed.

Variation in et due to driving ability is definite. However, a dramatic change in mph is not.

Wasn't there so I could only speculate. Maybe he let up before the finish, maybe he spun excessively off the start, maybe he wasn't used to driving the car on the track, maybe he missed a gear. Don't know.

RSI can run 150+ (9.5 et) in the 1/4, but the 8.9 second's car trap was almost identical. One thing I am sure of is that there are no absolutes in racing and sometimes things just don't make sense.

I agree with good traction it would trap better, but maybe it has too much power for street tires.

 

[Jason Heffner]

I would have to say that weather and track conditions played a huge roll in the lackluster performance of many cars at the zone rendezvous.

The trap speeds on stock SRTs were between 112 and 115 mph, the trap speed on the SRT that I did was 121, clearly an improvement over stock but definitely not what we were hoping for. We will be heading back to the track soon for some more testing, probably with a set of gears. A stock SRT will run 155 mph in 4th gear! We'll see what happens.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

I agree that a srt will run low 12's with some practice but the off idle torque just isn't there like the gen2 and the mph is not there either. I won't dispute that the motor is as strong as a gen 2, but its not nearly as user friendly as a gen2 in the quarter. A new srt 10 modified with 537 rwhp ran a best of 11.84 at 120 and that was after several passes and I was able to run a 11.29 at 123.7 in mark browns 490 rwhp 98 gts on my second pass in the car, also setting low et of the meet and that is a car with a heffner head package and gears being the only drivetrain mods.The Srt 10 on the same dyno making 40 hp more was nowhere near the et of the gts proving my point of the srt 10 being much harder to get down the track.

Jamie, Is it possible that the 27.4" overall diameter(4% taller) could be having a negative impact on the HP multiplication?

If one were to put in a 3.18 gear in the SRT rear end, it would make for the same MPH through the gears as a gen-2 with the 26.3" tires. I have not driven an SRT, but the guys in our local club were 117 MPH at the fastest in the 1/4 at our last event. Compare this to the 450 is RWHP gen-2's with headers who ran almost 122 MPH... I know they are probably more experienced, but some of the SRT drivers are experienced Viper drivers.

4% less hp multiplication could bring down the MPH of the SRT in my opinion.

 

[jamie furman]

I think Jason meant stock srt's ran between 112 and 115 at englishtown because the only one that got close to 122 was the one he built. As far as motor trend who knows? Maybe it was a factory ringer? All I know is every owner on this board who has run there new car never got close to the 11's.
But if you really payed attention to what I said, you would of seen I didn't dispute the capabilities of the car but the difficulty of driving the car on the quarter mile. I think someone in the previous thread mentioned tire diameter and I think that is a big issue in getting the potential out of the car. I can only go by the way my own srt felt and the other ones I have driven and by the times I have seen with my own eyes not what is published in press reports. The was also a competition coupe there and I assume the owner must be a pretty good driver since it is a race car and that car only ran in the low 12's. I have seen many stock brand new GTS vipers run deep into the 11's and I think alot of other viper owners could vouch as to seeing the same thing. The fact is in quarter mile drag racing stock to stock the gts is a faster car. Thats not my opinion that is a fact.

 

[BlueGTS]

Before we crown the GTS the king and the SRT-10 the jester maybe we should give the car a bit more time. The GTS has been out for 7 years. I doubt many 11-second passes were being run in 1996. I am sure with the right driver and given the proper track conditions the SRT will be every bit as quick if not quicker than a stock GTS. The problem is, not many GTS’s at the track are bone stock.

 

[jamie furman]

I have owned both and driven both and watch many passes from both in person. I have seen at least 10 bones stock gts's with less than 400 miles on the odometer run in the 11's with a best of 11.61 as an eye witness as factory delivered.I have only seen one srt 10 factory car run a 12.08 all the private cars I have ever seen have had a best of 12.3. With 50 more horse I expected a 1/2 sec faster not a 1/2 sec slower.All I can say is make a believer! because I am definately a non believer at this point.In 1997 my first pass ever in a gts was a 12.1 at 110 because I missed a gear, my second pass ever in a viper 5 minutes later was an 11.77 at 122. Now that made me a believer!

 

[GR8_ASP]

122 mph in a bone stock '97 Was there a strong tail wind or were you running down hill?

Also, you have witnessed at least 10 bone stock cars with less than break-in miles (<400 miles)run the quarter mile. All in the 11's? That statement is not very believable.

You know 10 people who don't give a [******] about their cars to break them in on the drag strip. Then to say they perform at world record times without the engine or driveline being broken in? They must be down to the low 11's now with less engine, transmission and differential friction. Funny how up until this point the lowest stock ET I had heard about was an 11.7. And you tied that run in your second pass in a Viper. Wow!

You ended you statement with "Now make me a believer!" Well, there wasn't much in your statement that made me a believer.

I am but one SRT owner and I can tell you that I have not taken it to the track. First off in Michigan we haven't had enough warm weather to find a good day for the track. Second, as one with a necessary valve change in process, I would not want to track it until it is fixed. Now I wonder how many SRT's have been to the drag strip. Especially those that do not have the faulty intake valves. Any drag results from a valve issue car are meaningless. With 40 lb-ft and 25 hp loss the times would not be representative of anything.

I say give it some time and the truth will bear out. I will be running mine later this month and will have my own personal evidence.

 

[sachin]

Um Jamie, didnt John Myrick run an [email protected] in his bone stock SRT-10?? there's a link further up on this thread. There's some proof for you

 

[jamie furman]

Um Sachin I wasn't there so I can't speak for John Myrick but if he did? great, especially if it was stock.If it was stock it might be the fastest one in the world.Ron I can't control what you believe, but believe this I tell it like it is, from experience not here say. I judge from the timeslip I am handed at the end of the track not some magazine article some editor who sprays 1/2 the track with vht and then forgets to mention the car had gears and tires for the actual run after they iced the engine for 1 hour in 40 degree weather and the track was closed to the public. I have run at many events at many shootouts and the guys who are on this board a lot know that I am a straight shooter. I see by your avatar what you drive and I think I understand why my post troubles you, but if you think I am the first guy who has posted the poor performance of the SRT you must be new to the board. Oh and the guy who ran 11.61 in a bone stock viper with 400 miles also ran an 11.41 at the same meet with drag radials being the only mod. And by the way it was a viper shootout at MIR raceway in budds creek maryland that the maryland, virginia vca was hosting and the car was mine. So if its so hard to believe email some of the 35 members who witnessed it. I know of 4 other local gts owners who have run comparable times recently in their new gts's. If I had witnessed SRT's ripping off 11's or even big mph numbers I would of been the first guy on the board telling about it.Read my first post over and over until you understand what I said, because I clearly said I felt the hp was there but is hard to harness with the big tires and gearing it has, but thats just my opinion. Ron I also want you to know I picked up my new SRT about 6 weeks ago so I think I am pretty qualified to give an opinion.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Jamie, I may have been a bit rough earlier. But the statement of knowing at least 10 cars that ran in the 11's with less than 400 miles just struck me wrong. I know a lot of Viper owners. But I do not know any that would take their car to the dragstrip before it was broken in. And to see ten of them do it seemed outlandish. And all ten to get in the 11's seemed beyond the realm of possibility. I have seen lots of Gen II's run and most (the vast majority) are in the low to mid 12's. 11's only for the best of drivers under great conditions.

I have also been present for magazine testing and have not witnessed any icing of manifolds or other "cheating." Can't say that it would not happen, but it has not happened when I was around. I also did not see the application of VHT or other track preparations.

I do not know how many SRT's have been delivered. But I would think the number that have been delivered and achieved break-in mileage is fairly limited. Especially in northern states. And of those I would think a fair amount have the intake valve issue (since over 250 were built with the defective valves - mine included). You may have witnessed an SRT with those intake valves.

By the way, if you looked close at the avatar you would have seen that I drive both an RT/10 and an SRT. No bias indicated.

 

[motor602]

i had the pleasure of racing against and talkin to the owner of this particular Heffner SRT and he mentioned that this car would burn its tires in fourth gear and the tail would easily step out, i believe he had a few traction problems that day.

 

[HEMIPOWER]

I personally think most, but not all Viper owners could care less about drag racing and when they do make it to a track their lack of experience is evident by their times.

Personally I think this is a waste of a good car, but hey that's just me. My best is 12.13 at 118, but I am still a novice. Lol.

 

[wiseasp]

Hey guys I am the one with the mod srt-10. YES we did have traction problems, I watched the video and EVERY pass I made the cars ass end was everywhere on EVERY shift. I have one video that shows I almost went sideways shifting from 2nd to 3rd. The car has ALOT of power and Jason's next step is some 3.55 gears. We will see what happens at the track after these gears. Plus I don't think these run flats help out much. The compound is very hard.

The best I drove was 12.02 @ 124.8 mph. A good friend of mine drove it 11.8 @ 120.9 mph. The highest mph I got was 126.6. So the power is there we just have to get it to the ground right.

ROB

 

[motor602]

Rob, it was a pleasure seeing your car demolish mine in the trophy marathon, ive never seen another car slingshot past me like that awesome car.

 

[genXgts]

Hey Jamie, good to hear from ya, I recall reading your posts a few years ago when I was Viper shopping and you were spot on with the numbers then.

Lets hope you get out with that SRT and make some numbers happen on this thing.

If there is any hope for the mid 11's your a top contender to get there, until then I think your statements are all valid, just not the info SRT owners want to hear (or myself for that matter). After taking it in the chin on styling, now performance is being called into the mix, interesting....

Someone bolt on some sticky tires and blow away some GenII times! Period. I still think it can happen.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I think the stock SRT will prove to be faster than the stock Gen II in the 1/4 no matter how you slice it. Will it be 1/2 second faster? Dunno. But if you don't mind my "seat of the pants" impression, I can tell you that my stock SRT would have beaten my modified GTS. I have only had a chance to make two passes in the SRT (hope to remedy that soon), but the second pass was less than 1/10th of a second off my fastest pass in the GTS at the same track. And I made well over 100 passes at that same track with the GTS. I never got the GTS in the 11's (poor driver), but would be willing to bet the SRT will be there the next time out. Regardless, it is still a blast!

Chris