Stopping distance improvement of ABS Vipers over non-ABS?

[jwwiii]

Hello;

I checked the mags, but never did see a review of an 01' Viper with ABS showing the real world improvement.

I own a 2001'RT, and have owned a 98' RT. The ABS feels hugely safer, and feels like it stops much shorter. Any stats on the comparison?

Thanks!

Jim

 

[SEASNAKE]

I never saw it in writing either, but my poor memory thinks it went from 160 down to 110 ft from 60mph-0.

 

[Cam]

The straight on stopping distance with ABS is most likey greater but the car remains stable and manuverable giving it a much safer feel, ABS also allows you to drive deeper into the turns because a computer manages threshhold braking instead of a less consistant human.

 

[FastMatt]

I am thinking of Trading in my 2000 GTS ACR on a 2001 , or 2002 just so I can get ABS.
I think my Excursion will stop faster than my 2000 GTS will in a panic stop! my brakes lock up at even the slight hard stops at over 100MPH. Going to 295's on the Ft helped but I still lock them up all the time. It is still hard for me to understand that a $89,400 car does not have ABS

So who wants to trade me there 2001 GTS (non ACR) for my 2000 GTS ACR???

 

[BWoodbury]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire:
So are people relying on ABS for racing? I keep wondering if it will alter the "feel" of braking under racing conditions, and if so, how... Since I'm still in the newbie/wannabe/preparatory-stages for road racing, though, I'm not even sure I'd understand the answer to that question.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to run my Eagle Talon with ABS on road courses and I always tried not to use the ABS. Properly done threshold braking is more effective than ABS. The key here is "properly done"...

The advantage of ABS on a track is a larger margin for error (something I know a bit about). If you go in too deep without ABS you lock up the wheels, flat spot the tires, etc. With ABS you don't lock up the tires so you still have some options for getting through the corner.

Knowing you have this safety net can allow for more agressive braking...

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Let's use one of the most legitimate " Test Beds " out there, Skip Thomas's Viper Days. The ABS Wheel to Wheel cars are required to carry an extra 100lbs over non-ABS cars- CUZ ABS WORKS UNBELIEVABLY WELL !!! Also, one of the most accomplished Viper Drivers of all time, Bobby Archer, will tell all that even for a Pro-Driver, it makes a big difference. Viper Team should be commended for their work with the system( including increasing Caliper size in the rear ), since times for cars equiped this way are definitely raising the bar. The " Feel" is great and it will be one of the major advantages, as years progress,enjoyed by the 2001 and 2002 Snakes.

 

[Casey]

I have to agree that ABS are safer and just overall better. I can't imagine that the difference is 50'! I believe it is more around 8'-10' difference 0-60. I know that the non-ABS GTS has many tests between 118'-122'.
I can't find any numbers on the ABS though!
Can't wait to see the numbers from the SRT-10!
And if you haven't seen the numbers from the Comp. Coupe 90'
That's nice!!

 

[onerareviper]

FastMatt or other,

I read somewhere that the Viper GTS will not lock up when braking at higher speeds? What's the real deal? I've hit them pretty hard, going pretty fast, and have yet to lock them up. It seems at slow speeds if you hit them to hard, they do lock up. Hello, we need an expert here...

 

[FastMatt]

I locked mine up at 160mph when my Radar went off. i flat spotted my tires all the way down to the cords. befor i could let off...

 

[Kevin ACR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I never saw it in writing either, but my poor memory thinks it went from 160 down to 110 ft from 60mph-0.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The November issue of Car & Driver shows 70-0mph stopping distances as follows :

Viper GTS ACR = 186ft
Corvette Z06 = 152
SVT Cobra = 169ft
Porsche Turbo = 160ft
Aston Martin DB7 =178ft

I would like to see the stopping distance for the Viper with the ABS system on it. I don't know why they test vehicles that don't have the latest changes, unless it was an availability issue.

 

[treynor]

I measured my '01 RT braking reliably 60-0 in 110-112 ft. Measurements taken on normal streets, after dark (i.e., cold asphalt). Daytime stopping would likely be slightly better. That braking performance extrapolates to
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>60-0 in 110 ft
<LI>70-0 in 150 ft
<LI>80-0 in 196 ft
[/list]

FWIW, I've tried measuring threshold-braking without activating ABS, but in the dry my stopping distances were worse than when I simply stood on the pedal and let the electronics do the work. In the wet I can beat the ABS because the cycle time to regain traction is much longer.

 

[jwwiii]

Hello;

Thanks for the ABS responses. I wish the mags had written something about the improvements mentioned in your posts. It seems like I am not the only one who never saw any write-ups on it.
I sure like the ABS on my 01' compared to my 98'. Seems like you all appreciate it as well. I bet the 03' is going to really surprise us with some very impressive stats!

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Paul Fischer]

How about the next time a an '01 and a pre '01 make it to an event the drivers involved do a comparison. Same track, conditions, time envelope etc.. I have the feeling that if the results were dramatic we would have heard about them from DC. No question the average driver on the steet benefits from ABS but when Bobby Archer says he's for them, and this guy gets around the 2.9 mile track at TWS two seconds faster than Paul Mumford, that's interesting.

 

[dtittle]

Hey Paul,

What times are you referring to? I rode with Paul when he clicked off a couple of 1:48.2's like nuthin' happened. Has Archer done 1:46's? If so, in what car?

Regards,
Tittle

 

[kverges]

Also do not forget that the ABS-equipped cars have larger rear calipers, at least as significant as ABS in braking performance. I calculated the bias change to put about 5% mor braking on the rear than the pre-ABS cars and that equates to less chance of front lockup at threshold as well as using more of th eavailable grip of all four tires at threshold.

 

[Viablo]

Is it possible to install an ABS system on the non ABS equipped Vipers?

 

[YellowSnake]

I NEVER STOP.

 

[Frank Parise]

Years ago I attended a 4-day Bondurant race school. One of the exercises was to compare stopping distances and trail-braking abilities on ABS-equipped cars vs. non-ABS cars. These tests were done in the Rousch-prepared Mustangs.

The superiority of the ABS cars was incredible. None of the students could come close in stopping the cars using threshold braking versus using ABS.

What was more remarkable was that you could enter corners at much higher speed and trail-brake through the corner without upsetting the car. Trying the same maneuver in the non-ABS cars resulted in instant spin outs, similar to what will happen in the Viper if you apply the brakes too hard while the steering wheel is turned.

I can guarantee you there isn't a human being alive that can modulate the brake pedal 20 times per second to avoid wheel lock-up.

This past weekend I was an instructor in a driving school and had a 16-year old Viper pilot as a student. The exercise was to take his Viper up to 60 MPH and come to a complete stop as quickly as possible without locking up the front tires ("threshold braking"). The technique is to apply very hard pedal pressure initially, then ease the pressure proportionately as the car slows down. It is much easier to lock up the brakes at 10 MPH than at 60 MPH, and that's exactly what he discovered.

If you don't ease up on the pedal ("modulate"), you will lock up the front tires and flat spot or cord them. The reason this happens is simple. If you put maximum pressure on the brake pedal, the hydraulic brake fluid will be pressed against the caliper pistons which in turn clamp the brake pads against your brake rotors at maximum strength, regardless of actual car speed. This pressure is not enough to instantly stop the wheels from spinning at 160 MPH or even 60 MPH, but it is quite adequate to lock 'em up at 10 MPH.

By the way, the new Competition Coupe, which is a full-out racecar, has ABS. There's a reason for that!

"Real Men Threshold Brake"....and lose.

 

[GTS Dean]

I think that in some cases, a very accomplished driver can out-stop ABS. However, the consistency of ABS becomes the key vs a driver who has to worry about downshifting, finding the line, turning the wheel, and keeping the thing pointed where he wants it, then rolling off the brake and onto the throttle.

Eventually, the driver will make a mistake. The ABS computer probably won't.

 

[Paul Fischer]

Dave,
Bobby was driving a stock motored GTS with tires and shocks according to the guys at the track. I went around for a couple with Paul and it's hard to think where that other two seconds might be hiding but as you noted he runs :48's with two people in the car. 1.3 seconds is all it takes to get into the :46's from there. When Paul took me around it was getting on in the day, he was tired, on worn tires and he still managed two :50's through traffic. Impressive.

 

[PMUM]

For the record, I seem recall passing Bobby in both my car and Schley's. He was running 51s the only weekend I was ever at TWS. He was then running 52s or 53s the SCCA weekend in his T1 car. Bob Woodhouse was the one who dropped a 46 SCUD.

As for ABS. There's no doubt that it's an advantage. A good driver doesn't cycle the ABS on a good lap, but it allows him to push the thresholds because if a mistake is made you don't have to get out of the brakes to keep the wheels from locking. On all of my fastest laps I stay out of ABS, but I can push the brake markers to the last possible moment knowing that if I push it too far the ABS will help bail me out.