Supercharger Questions

[BYT U L8R]

In an attempt to learn all before a purchase, I pose these questions to you supercharger gurus...

Assuming my ego only needs ~800HP.
1. What size blower? 1000CFM, 1300CFM, 1500CFM...
2. Injector size?
3. @8-10 boost would the stock fuel lines/rails fail?
4. How fancy a fuel management system is necessary? Would a preprogrammed piggyback be sufficient? A VEC1 type of controller?
5. Fuel pump sizes. ~80 psi. 90?

I know it looks like I'm only asking someone to design a system for me. Well, kind of. I just want to price the appropriate parts individually to see if piecing a system together is cost effective. Never mind any cross member mods or engine compartment space restrictions.
I understand that many others have put thousands into designing their own systems so I obviously don't expect them to give up the goat. But if there is someone with the expertise to give "some" specifics it would help to see if trying an experiment might be cost effective, if not, at least a not-to-expensive learning experience.

Thanks for your thoughts, these are easy questions! jk.

 

[BYT U L8R]

I (maybe)understand the difficulty involved with the fuel management. Are there other management systems out there similar to the ones used by the big boys. I would anticipate having to "play" with the setup once it's on. A lot of trial and error would take place. But if levels are controlled hopefully the trial/error portion of the tuning would not cause the engine to blow up.
I also like to do things myself, at least learn as much as possible about the topic. If I lived in Florida I'm sure Doug Levin would be sick of me tagging around his shop all of the time (though he seems to be a guy that would be OK with that).
I don't want to re-invent the wheel but any Viper SC info would be helpful. Mustang/Camaro/whatever supercharger info is everywhere. Viper stuff is nonexistent.
Thanks

 

[jamie furman]

You may also want to check with Jason Heffner 410-766-2800, he has supercharged many cars for me and my viper has a relatively simple fuel system and has been very reliable and pretty fast also, for over 3 years now.All 3 of those guys do blowers so 1 of them should be able to help, It is really not that complicated, just a matter of money.

 

[BYT U L8R]

Thanks for the replies so far. Just started researching the topic Tues. Found at least two companies that offer complete fuel management systems for SC Vipers. I'm not sure but they seem/might to be the same ones some of the pro's are using. Expensive but it is obviously key to the success.
Found a fantastic book by Corky Bell on Supercharging and building systems. I believe he does an excellent job of explaining the details of charging a car and why everyone says each car is tuned differently.
Still looks "easy" to do YOUR car but making a high boost DIY kit would be difficult. It just takes planning and some design sense. Do the equations and for the front end and make sure you can back it up ie. proper SC unit with fuel management. We'll see...

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FR USMC:
i think HMS (i dont' know if that's the correct shortening of it) has a nice one on their site......this comming from a guy who knows crap...... lol

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


FR is this a joke? That would be Hennessy Motor Sports.
STAY FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <FONT size="1">just my opinon of course</FONT s>

He as been accused in national magazines of fraud and theft. He has been accused of parting out his customers cars instead of installing the proper add ons.

 

[varanus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MichaelP:

FR is this a joke? That would be Hennessy Motor Sports.
STAY FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <FONT size="1">just my opinon of course</FONT s>

He as been accused in national magazines of fraud and theft. He has been accused of parting out his customers cars instead of installing the proper add ons.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Michael, I believe it is a joke. I had to read it twice, but at the end he qualifies it by saying
"this comming from a guy who knows crap...... lol" meaning he recognizes the item as being crap.
When I first saw it i thought here comes another 50 posts . . .

 

[varanus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Varanus i would STRONGLY SUGGEST you go with a PROFESSIONAL TUNER on this one.When using forced induction your margin for error is VERY SMALL.If your fuel/spark management is slightly off and the boost comes on -SAY GOODBYE TO YOUR ENGINE.Trust me in alot of cases you can not hear DETONATION,ect before it is too late.I used to run a Carroll Supercharged Vette in the early 90s.(Before they had custom AIR-FUEL/SPARK CALIBRATION it was done by almost guessing where you needed or subtracted fuel/spark )WHAT A NIGHTMARE.I blew up the engine 3x per year.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you meant this message for BYT U L8R.

I agree that unless he knows a lot more than what he is asking, I think he will be opening up a can of worms. I could be wrong, but if you have to ask these questions on the original post, you may not be knowlegeable enough to push a Viper to 800 hp. Getting parts is easy, making them all work together to your satisfaction is not.
I am getting the Sean Roe SC which will be way under the 800 hp mark. Sean could raise it to 800hp, but he is well aware of all the extra work involved as well as potential risks and is happy with just a good gain. To get to the next level is not a proportional increase in work, but way more I would guess.

 

[varanus]

BTW
1 bad GTS
While you often disagree with many. I enjoy your informative posts. I always like hearing diferent viewpoints. Intelligent decisions are best made with all information available, not just the most popular thoughts and beliefs.
Just wanted to let you know. Keep posting

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

As the horsepower numbers increase so do the element's of relativity; The first one hundred horsepower extracted can be obtained utilizing modest alterations, after that the ante starts to talley up! The next fifty HP becomes more of a struggle unless your enhancements become more definitive to support the higher consumption of fuel, boost and computer control. The stock Viper PCM is monitored via "Speed Density" input, anything above atmosphere becomes unrecognizable to the computer. The stock fuel system "One Pipe" fuel system (returnless) is appropriate for emissions, cooler fuel temperatures and pump life. "Return" type fuel systems heat fuel by pressurizing and de-pressurizing the fuel causing many kinds of detrimental aspects to the fuel burn characteristics, but they can provide the much needed fuel supplement for force inducted applications. At W.O.T. each horsepower requires approximately 1/2 pound of fuel per hour. This is called the BSFC or (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption).

Make certain you have a good constant voltage source to your fuel pump. A 1/2 voltage drop loss can result in a 10 - 15% fuel pressure loss.

Regards,
Doug

 

[BYT U L8R]

I appreciate responses like these...

As far as spark control and fuel/air mixture, that is why you invest in a good control unit (Marren, MSD [they claim to have Viper stuff for high HP applications]) All timing is easily calculated. Injector duration/size, timing, mixture, fuel temps and pump size are all easily calculated for your engine and HP you want. A theoretical set-up probably takes all of a couple of hours to come up with (assuming you have all data available). It would be easier to come up with an excel program for multiple iterations, but it can be done by hand in under an hour. Now applying that theory is a different story.

Thanks, Doug, about the voltage to the fuel pump. A capacitor/voltage regulator dedicated to the fuel pump would stabilize the supply to the pump within 0.001V. Pretty cheap to do (relative to the whole project).

Playing with the return fuel line is definitely a different story (high out-put cars only). Still not sure about the fuel rails. I don't want 1000HP so the stock rails might be OK. Still have to check.
Coming up with space for the charger doesn't seem to be the biggest issue. Finding space for the intercooler and it's radiator present a different challenge. Perhaps the intercooler radiator can find space flat under the steering linkage? Lots of surface area can cram under there. Haven't looked that hard yet.
It's a process and finding a good shop to work with in San Diego will be interesting. But San Diego is a true Hot Rodding Mecca!

Please keep the responses coming! Thank you