Survey - TVS blower for SRT-10 Vipers

[Coloviper]

Nine Ball;

Did they get their donor car? Skweakyyyyyy wheel gets the grease. What more do they need to make this a reality? The market is there with the number of cars and trucks out there with that GEN III motor. The demograph of those Viper owners is also mod happy so that should help them make a case, despite the overall numbers being lower than mass produced cars..

I waited and waited for the Roe kit, then was really let down when it died. I understand the reasons expressed for why it did not go forward, but I am not interested in reasons why not. Superchargers fit on all engines and kits are made every day for a variety of manufacturers. They just need to have vision.

Seriously, what more do they need to make this a reality? If they were really serious about this, then I would provide a fully refundable reasonable deposit on it, if it gets them going. Can you PM me who I should talk to over there? I would be happy to try to speak with them, if it helps.

I just think it is high time this came out already as many owners are tired of waiting and unfulfilled promises on this very issue over many years. I also love my 06', and feel no need to change cars just to get what I want.

Seriously, can you PM me some contact information and maybe I can help.

Thank you
Rick

 

[ExplorerThis]

^ I like this guys attitude!!!

I want a twin screw viper! Show them this thread and they'll see that we aren't some tire kickers.

 

[Nine Ball]

Excellent post Rick. MagnaCharger hasn't selected a prototype vehicle yet. Believe me, I bug my buddy there (VP of Sales) every week about updates. I tell him we can't keep up the wave of interest without providing some feedback. His last reply was that they are having meetings about the Viper kit. They have been watching this thread, I sent them a link when it was created, and also re-send that link each time I ask for an update.

Tony

 

[Coloviper]

Cool Tony

In the end, I do feel they can make the Magnacharger work on the GENIII under the stock GENIII or GEN IV hood (on a GENIII). There is a pretty deep cavity between the heads and if they turned that MagnaCharger UPSIDE-DOWN and created new intake runners from the heads up to meet the blower from the top, then that would help with height issues. I have not seen anyone do this and who says that blower has to be right-side up. It doesn't. It also allows them to add those SMS style of intercooler tubes around the blower housing inside that cavity to cool the blower assembly, which should help with the charge issues. The point of the intercooler is to help with heat soak, charge temp, etc.

Again if they think outside the box, they will come up with a great kit that will fit under the hood, which the kit principles can be used in multiple applications. To clean up the install on the upper runner area, if it looks a little messy, they should use formed aluminum, NOT plastic pieces.

Beyond that, the rest is tuning. If they can nail that down, then I think they have a real winner. The timing is now, while the future Viper production is on hiatus, not in a year when the new Viper's start coming out, but they have to ask the critical question and understand the answer Someone who can just get into a $40K-50K GENIII can easily come up with $10K to $12K for the right blower kit versus double that for a new Viper or $25K for a GENIV.

Since there are NO other non-centrifugal Viper blower kits out there for this group, they have the market cornered. Again, not sure what else they need to uderstand. Like a 700 HP solid Viper kit is NOT going to help all their sales and markeing department for all their blowers? I think NOT! It is going to positively grab headlines everywhere. It's a win-win for all involved.

Rick

 

[ssjcreeper]

Tony, thanks for the update.

To reiterate what many have expressed... there's a considerable number of SRT owners that have had Magnachargers or other roots-style blowers in the past and are sitting on the fence hoping this kit comes to light vs pulling the trigger on already available but not as desirable centrifugal options.

Just knowing that Magnacharger is talking of this has kept my modding at bay. At some point (later this year), I hope to pull the trigger on something. Preferably a Maggie.

Doug

 

[AbsolutHank]

After being in and around LSX cars with Maggie's, I'm all in for this kit. My old Paxton setup was nice for sure, but a PD setup is the way to go.

Tony, put them in touch with Woodhouse, or DLM, or Tator, or DC, or Viper Speciality...let them tell Magnacharger how many kits they've installed on the SRT cars. Then put them in touch with JonB, and Roe and all the other vendors....let them tell them how many kits they've sold. The market is out there...sure they're late to the party, but as these cars depreciate, and a younger demographic comes into ownership, I suspect more and more modding! Look how the LSX market has grown over the last few years...they are more popular than ever!

 

[Nine Ball]

My current update is that this project is not dead. That is a good sign. The main issue is resources within the company, as they have a slate of 30+ projects ongoing at the moment. Not enough personnel to start something like this immediately. The previous hurdle in the past was the tuning, but now that we have the SCT hand-held tuner, that is solved.

 

[Coloviper]

As there are always new cars coming out, how are they ever going to prioritize this kit. Glad to hear about the tuning hurdle as I had thought the SCT tuner would work for that.

They have a small window for those that want more power and the new GEN V has not come out. I think they need to re-prioritize some of those 30+ projects and get going on this. Summer is coming.

Tony, what do they really need to push forward NOW! They must understand that the timing is pretty much now.

 

[Nine Ball]

C6 Z06 came out in 2006. They didn't release the kit for the LS7 until 2010. I got one of the first kits for mine. Sometimes it just takes a while for them to analyze the market and figure out the right time to release a system.

 

[FLATOUT]

Still excited about the possibility.

 

[TowDawg]

C6 Z06 came out in 2006. They didn't release the kit for the LS7 until 2010. I got one of the first kits for mine. Sometimes it just takes a while for them to analyze the market and figure out the right time to release a system.

So shouldn't that mean the Gen III kit should have been released in 2007?

I just hope something comes from this. I want to put a Gen IV hood on mine, but until this thing is either "dead" or a "go" I want to hold off just in case it requires a special hood for clearance. I don;t want to buy a hood and have it painted and then find out I need another hood to clear the blower.

 

[Coloviper]

Tomdawg;

I would just get the GEN IV hood. I doubt they wil have a business case if they require a non-GENIII or GENIV hood. If they can not at least handle the GENIV hood, I am not interested in their kit.

 

[Nine Ball]

Tomdawg;

I would just get the GEN IV hood. I doubt they wil have a business case if they require a non-GENIII or GENIV hood. If they can not at least handle the GENIV hood, I am not interested in their kit.

One of the hood vendors here already said he would build a hood to clear this kit. None of the Corvette kits fit under factory hoods, there are probably a dozen aftermarket hoods though.

 

[Coloviper]

Bump, push, drag, kick................................... News????????????? I am still waiting on that contact and phone number at Magnusson. Anyone! At this point, we would have a better chance of Dodge releasing a kit in the Mopar parts catelog. Come on already!!!!!!!!!

 

[TowDawg]

I hear you on this one. I keep checking this thread every time there's a new post hoping it's good news. I know it takes a while to get everything done, but it's hell waiting!

 

[Coloviper]

Weekly bump until this gets resolved and/or someone passes over the contact information at Magnusson so I can try to resolve it myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ssjcreeper]

for your tenacity my friend!

Weekly bump until this gets resolved and/or someone passes over the contact information at Magnusson so I can try to resolve it myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nine Ball]

Weekly bump until this gets resolved and/or someone passes over the contact information at Magnusson so I can try to resolve it myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've had four different prototype/first build Maggies on four different vehicles. Believe me, I want to see this more than anyone. I've been working with MagnaCharger on my projects since 2003. It is just a slow process. The first major step is just getting them to green light the engineering to develop a kit. It isn't something that happens quickly. They are monitoring this thread, and it HAS helped get their attention.

My best suggestion for those possibly interested? Keep posting in this thread, tell them why you want it, give them ideas about costs/concerns, etc...

Thanks,
Tony

 

[TowDawg]

Thanks for the update, and hopefully they pull the trigger soon. I would love to be able to bolt one of these on over the next winter.

In my opinion, it needs to come to market very close to what the Paxton currently costs. Yes, I would pay a little more for this than a Paxton, but they need to keep the price in check to really get the volume on this kit.

 

[Coloviper]

Tony;

Monitoring the thread is one thing, but I would like to make a suggestion. Get together with Magnusson and come up with specific "owner information" gathered sheets in a PDF or something they can take into their board room for approval. Have them put together their specific concerns, their specific questions, etc. that Magnusson needs to have answered to "green light" the project. Unless it is formalized and answers the speciifc areas they need to have answered to get forward approval, the rest is just a curiosity and I believe it will go no where. Hey I am a business man too within an engineering company and I would not produce anything without that market demograph information for a kit like this. More than just a blind research summary, have it be very personal which asks for owner information, phone number and contact info which they can contact us for additional questions or verifications.

To be honest, this is the last ditch hope for me in having a long future with my Viper. I have had it for 6 years, since new but have really out grown the current power levels and simply want more. I do not see myself in a financial position to buy a new GENV anytime soon, so this is it for me. Taken with the fact that at this altitude in the Rockies, I am giving up a ton of power anyway, I only want simply bolt on parts and do not want to go into the motor to get the power. Paxton is an option I just cringe at, if I have to go that route. Unless Magnusson can get off their ass and produce a respectible kit in the very near future, Paxton is reluctantly what I will have to do as I made a promise to myself not to do anything to the motor beyond exhaust until the 7 year Maxcare Warranty is up. It will be up in the near future.

Seriously is their anyway we can formalize this process to really give this a chance at going this time. I am just tired of these threads starting and going nowhere the past 6 years AND I just do not want to hack up my car with a Twin Turbo kit. Have zero desire for a TT kit.

I would think if the VCA stepped in to help gather this information in a formal process, THAT would be the big push needed to legitimize this offering. Anyway the VCA can do good for the members, get involved and step into these discussions and help gather this information for Magnusson and present it to them so we can finally get this kit produced.

Sorry Tony, it is nothing against you in the slightest. I just think there is power in numbers and when someone large like the VCA organization gets behind it, that would be what they need to green light this kit and potentially in such a way it does not require a hood change or at least only a hood change to a GEN IV hood, which seems to be an acceptable mod to all.

 

[Coloviper]

New week, new bump!

Ah........if this keeps up, my thinks this is another GEN III DOA Supercharger thread. If you are listening Magnusson, your losing the interest you had. Personally I would like to hear from them on this. Why not forward on a post or reply of theirs Tony on this issue or just PM me the contact information for them already.

 

[mnc2886]

New week, new bump!

Ah........if this keeps up, my thinks this is another GEN III DOA Supercharger thread. If you are listening Magnusson, your losing the interest you had. Personally I would like to hear from them on this. Why not forward on a post or reply of theirs Tony on this issue or just PM me the contact information for them already.

I think the number of views this thread has shows that no intrest has been lost. I too hope they build this kit, however, a "new" kit for a vehicle most recently produced in 2006 doesn't sound good. I do think the Viper can be an exception, almost like a '69 Camaro. I wonder what the percentage of Vipers are modded vs. bone stock. I'm pretty sure that percentage wise, the Viper might be one of the most modified cars. I think that can be a strong argument for producing this. The number of owners that are willing to buy this kit has got to be very high percentage wise compared to a Vette and Viper owners would probably have more expendable income.

 

[Nine Ball]

New week, new bump!

Ah........if this keeps up, my thinks this is another GEN III DOA Supercharger thread. If you are listening Magnusson, your losing the interest you had. Personally I would like to hear from them on this. Why not forward on a post or reply of theirs Tony on this issue or just PM me the contact information for them already.

You seem pretty feisty. I'd rather not risk my excellent connections with them by having you go nuts on their inbox or phone. They could cut me off by you doing so. LOL!

Manufacturer of Supercharger kits, remanufactured superchargers and supplier of supercharger oil. - pick up the phone and make your own contacts

 

[Coloviper]

Okay Tony;

Just thought you could save me the hassle AND time of going through an auto-attendant mailbox and then bouncing around here and there to finally get to the right decision maker and stakeholder for the green light on this project in maybe a month if I took 4 weeks off work to dedicate to finding the right guy.

Bottomline is I just don't have that kind of free time to do that, so I am going to PM you with my personal contact information and you can pass it on to your contacts. If they are truly serious about this project and kit, then can contact me on those numbers I am passing along. PM will be sent to you in a few seconds!

Thanks and I understand your rationale. I am strong arming in this thread because it seems like nothing is getting done, but am much more professional when I speak with representatives of the company themselves. Bottomline is I NEED this kit to be produced whether it is Whipple, Magnusson, SMS or Edelbrock.

Hope Magnusson comes to the table first because if the others bite, there will not be room for two to make the bucks they want. I have the contacts at Edelbrock, SMS and Whipple from my past projects, but felt the Magnusson blower was the way to go on the Viper. I am just tired of waiting. Wasted a few years waiting on another vendor for this kit.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Nine Ball]

Understood Rick. These systems just take time to develop, usually several months. The Viper kit isn't a priority for them, they have many other systems in the design que ahead of it. My hope is that it happens, period. Even if it takes another year.

Tony

 

[Toma]

TVS is too small for a Viper, plus a stock SRT motor is weak, and especially weak at the rpm range that a positive displacement blower is best at.

My opinion for a stock bottom end SRT is that you can't beat the Paxton for function and durability.

Sure, you could run a Roe or TVS, but to get it to live without cracking a piston at 3000 rpm and wot.... well, its a crutch.

 

[Nine Ball]

Toma, do you speak from experience of owning a Paxton or PD supercharged Viper? Or from blowing up any SRT-10 engines?

I'm not a fan of the Paxton kit on my own '06 coupe. It is flat out boring to drive until 4,500 rpm, which the car rarely sees without breaking some serious MPH laws. I prefer full boost at 2K rpm, instant throttle response, no boost lag. The Viper already suffers from a 6K rpm redline, might as well enhance the rest of the rpm range below it.

Also, they do make different sized TVS blowers. All the have to do is change the length of the unit to make them larger. Pretty simple. The TVS 2.3L unit already available can produce up to 800 rwhp. Far more than a stock SRT-10 stock engine can handle.

 

[Toma]

Nine Ball.... I understand what you want, everyone wants the same thing.

I know how to make it live, but like I said, it's a crutch, and not the 'proper' way to do it. We are cursed with weak pistons, and all I was saying is that a Paxton is a better match for the stock engine dynamics.

Now, 2.3 TVS.... it's too small for our motors. I've played with them on Zr1's, Mustangs, Camaros etc, and for our 8L, and desire for north of 700whp.... it's gonna be outside its efficiency range. If they are gonna increase it to 3.0l+ for the Viper.... it would be ok up top, way too much for the SRT motor down low.

Now, on a built motor? Kick ass, a 3.0l+ TVS, or a 3.6L whipple.... oh baby, that would be a fun, though a not so practical first 3 gear ride

Edit.... I guess I should add for those that don't realize, is that torque=cylinder pressure=stress. A motors 'stress' load at say 8psi at 2000 rpm is WAY higher than one that makes 8 psi at 6000 rpm.

 

[Coloviper]

Not sure I agree with your logic as presented Toma based upon my past experiences, but this is why the SMS and Whipple kits are usually only 5 psi. The stock GEN III can easily handle that at ANY RPM. The problem with the Paxton kits are the same as with any centrifugal kit, is the devil is in the tuning. Near impossible to get it tuned properly for efficiency, etc. Second is it is dead undr 3,500 rpm. I know, I have a Vortech S-Trim on my 95' S351R 408 Stroker Saleen and had many Paxtons on past Mustangs, etc.. I had to have custom computers, etc. Tired of it!

Sorry but centrifugals are the crutch. Tuning on a screw type blower is easy as pie because it is predictable curves, etc. I have NEVER had a probelm with a Whipple or Eaton on the four cars/trucks I had them on. Just like I punched out the cubes as opposed to adding a huffer above 3,500 rpm.

The big boy Whipple for up to 8.4L and with internal coolers built in are tailor made for the Viper engine. Getting it to fit under the hood is another aspect. I would give you a number but the Whipple site is down.

Going above 5 psi will require a built motor for longevity but under 5 psi, it can handle it all day long.

 

[Toma]

Not sure I agree with your logic as presented Toma based upon my past experiences, but this is why the SMS and Whipple kits are usually only 5 psi. The stock GEN III can easily handle that at ANY RPM. The problem with the Paxton kits are the same as with any centrifugal kit, is the devil is in the tuning. Near impossible to get it tuned properly for efficiency, etc. Second is it is dead undr 3,500 rpm. I know, I have a Vortech S-Trim on my 95' S351R 408 Stroker Saleen and had many Paxtons on past Mustangs, etc.. I had to have custom computers, etc. Tired of it!

Sorry but centrifugals are the crutch. Tuning on a screw type blower is easy as pie because it is predictable curves, etc. I have NEVER had a probelm with a Whipple or Eaton on the four cars/trucks I had them on. Just like I punched out the cubes as opposed to adding a huffer above 3,500 rpm.

The big boy Whipple for up to 8.4L and with internal coolers built in are tailor made for the Viper engine. Getting it to fit under the hood is another aspect. I would give you a number but the Whipple site is down.

Going above 5 psi will require a built motor for longevity but under 5 psi, it can handle it all day long.

Ignoring your comments on incompetent tuners.....We are talking two different things.... driving "Feel" versus race performance.

I'm a drag racer at heart. Last time I raced my Viper, I pulled the stick at 6500 rpm with my right foot firmly planted on the floor.

When I'm racing, I have no interest in what power the motor makes at 3500 rpm.

But I digress. Again we are getting into subjective criteria.

Objectively, all I said was that considering our weak internals, cast pistons with top ring land right at the crown, anything that produces LESS stress=cylinder pressure=boost down low will be more durable, all else being equal.