Swirl marks – we work wrong way causing the problem to grow bigger

[Peter-RedGTS'98]

Over the years, I read many posts on waxing and swirl marks removal. My Viper, when I bought it as a used one, had many of them. I followed an advice on the forum, and used Zaino / 3M to hide them. All waxing done by hand. I have never used any mechanical device. And guess what – I got more and more swirls. The same happened to my friends.

Finally, I got tired and did a bit of research and after changing a procedure it seams my Viper does not catch more swirls. So, read my advice, which is contrary to what you guys do and let me know what you think. This may not give us the best results in hiding swirls but will stop the progressive damage we all do to our toy.

#1: Never use waxes such as Zaino or 3M which dry out and you have to polish your car. Why? Just one very small piece of sand (or hard material) stacked to the cleaning cloth will cause more swirls. If you do not believe me – use a clay bar and look closely how much tiny but hard fragments of dirt the bar catches after you already washed your car.

#2: Never use any mechanical devices to apply/polish a coat of wax.

#3: Use liquid waxes that you spread like oil over the paint regardless of the surface temperature. Remember; pick wax, which does not require any polishing and does not leave stains. I like to compare this process to applying baby oil on baby skin – I don’t need to say more. Leave it to dry out. I use Pinnacle Souveran Wax.

What do you think???

 

[Silver Snake]

I think you should wash and clay your car BEFORE waxing then you don't have to worry about sand between your paint and pad.

Never had a problem using a orbital polisher. Makes life easier.

 

[Got_Vnum]

#2: Never use any mechanical devices to apply/polish a coat of wax.

What do you think???

What are you basing that on? Not bashing you, but you said you have never used one, so why are you against using them? As long as its a random action buffer used properly, it should not cause swirl marks.

I also bought a used GTS thankfully with minimal swirl marks but with some NASTY touch-up paint spots that looked like sky-blue finger paint. From the advice on this forum, I bought a Porter Cable random-action polisher and with some 3M medium-abrasive paint cleaner, the results were fantastic.

I'm not sure how bad your swirls are, but I would get some 3M swirl remover or medium abrasive paint cleaner carefully polish with a Porter Cable. If you dont feel comfortable doing it, have it done somewhere. That followed up by a quality wax should make a big difference.

Good Luck

 

[Peter-RedGTS'98]

#2: Never use any mechanical devices to apply/polish a coat of wax.

What do you think???

What are you basing that on?

Previous owner used a mechanical device – you can see it all over after a good wash. After waxing swirls are hidden but never enough. Even when using hand waxing I caught myself on creating new swirls.

I am not bashing – uh… people are so sensitive these days. What I am saying is that you need to wash your Viper well to see, year over year, the progression on the paint damage. Take one area and observe over two years. You will be suprised. Remmember look after a good wash. In my case there were more and more swirls. If you still doubt – tell me how come did you get these swirls in the first place???

 

[garolittle]

The type of towel/cloth used to remove the Zaino or wax can make a HUGE difference. I have used Zaino for years with a 100% terry cotton cloth and my Viper looks better today than when I purchased it.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Over the years, I read many posts on waxing and swirl marks removal. My Viper, when I bought it as a used one, had many of them. I followed an advice on the forum, and used Zaino / 3M to hide them. All waxing done by hand. I have never used any mechanical device. And guess what – I got more and more swirls. The same happened to my friends.

Finally, I got tired and did a bit of research and after changing a procedure it seams my Viper does not catch more swirls. So, read my advice, which is contrary to what you guys do and let me know what you think. This may not give us the best results in hiding swirls but will stop the progressive damage we all do to our toy.

#1: Never use waxes such as Zaino or 3M which dry out and you have to polish your car. Why? Just one very small piece of sand (or hard material) stacked to the cleaning cloth will cause more swirls. If you do not believe me – use a clay bar and look closely how much tiny but hard fragments of dirt the bar catches after you already washed your car.

#2: Never use any mechanical devices to apply/polish a coat of wax.

#3: Use liquid waxes that you spread like oil over the paint regardless of the surface temperature. Remember; pick wax, which does not require any polishing and does not leave stains. I like to compare this process to applying baby oil on baby skin – I don’t need to say more. Leave it to dry out. I use Pinnacle Souveran Wax.

What do you think???

Try taking your gts outside in the bright sun for an hour and checking then for swirls...you WILL be surprised.

Oh and by the way, the ONLY way to effectively remove swirls and spider haze...is to use HEAT and an ABRASIVE.

Meaning a PC and 3M compound...if you don't believe me, you have a lot to learn about car prep and polishing.

Zaino will only hide swirls, what good is that?

Proper car care starts with washing, and doing it properly to prevent swirls.

 

[BDZ1984]

Zaino swirl remover is not a remover at all but a filler. you need a true swirl cutter. 3M is also the same as Zaino. always use Korean micro-fiber towels the China ones scratch. A good test to see if your towels scratch is to rub a CD with them. If they scatch then they are no good. A local Club member has his own detailing products that I have been using for 2 years now and am very happy with the results. I would check out his web site at www.tropi-care.com. As far as waxes go they are just fillers as well and will atract more dust than a true polish or sealant.

-Brian

 

[Matt M PA]

The new Zaino Fusion is NOT a filler. It is a water based abrasive cleaner-swirl remover. It leaves nothing behind that would hide a swirl or cause the final step of Zaino (or other LSP) to not adhere properly.

First of all, where you got the idea that Zaino dries out your paint is beyond me. I have used Zaino for over 8 years and have yet to have a problem. Using products that contain solvents, like Dri-Wash or Grease & Wax removers are more likely to cause paint to dry out.

It many cases, it is the towels that are being used that cause the “swirling” that kind-of looks like spider-webbing.

The wrong mechanical device, or improper use causes other types of swirls called “holograms”. These are what you see at used car lots, caused by improper use of a rotary buffer.

Using waxes loaded with oils, only hide the swirls temporarily. Oils are a great camouflage and are used in many of the lesser products. Problem is...after a wash or rainstorm...the oils are gone...swirls are back.

Clay is a great product and I use it each time, before I polish my vehicles. When I took delivery of my 2005 Excursion, it had been received at the dealer…the same day. You would not believe the amount of rail dust, etc, that I cleaned from that truck with clay. The point is, it had not sat on the lot for months to get dirty. Clay removes all sorts of contaminants that regular washing will not remove.

I use a Porter Cable machine with a finishing pad to apply Zaino. My vehicles have no swirling. (I also use a CR Spotless water system, so I do not have to towel dry my vehicles. This no doubt helps in avoiding the swirls.)

Again, the toweling you use has a lot to do with swirls. Drying, buffing, etc, with the wrong towels can be a real problem. If you use powdered detergent, that too can cause little bits of hardened detergent to remain in the towel, causing marring. Fabric softener is another “no-no” for your car’s towels.

Finally, another comment about Zaino. Zaino’s “polishes” ARE NOT waxes, They are synthetics. They do not contain abrasives. They also do not contain silicone oils that attract dirt.

Zaino Z5 does indeed have a degree of swirl filling. What good is that? Well for one, Viper paint is VERY soft. When you realize that your paint (including clear and primer) is only a few mils thick…think thickness of plastic trash bag….you can see why you should avoid abrasives. Each time you abrade the surface, your paint gets thinner. If you go too thin, your clear-coat fails.

 

[PDCjonny]

I keep it simple, and my car has an outstanding finish.
I use the PC with 3M swirl remover 3M Finesse-It II Machine Polish with an Orange light cutting pad http://www.properautocare.com/coprorpopa.html when I need to get rid of any swirls or light scratches. I swear by Pinnacle Souvernan (sp?) pure carnuba wax for the best, wettest and deepest shine I have seen on any car. It will not last as long as synthetic waxes, or Zaino but I could care less I wax it every two weeks anyway. The Pinnacle goes on like butter, you don't have to wait for it to haze over, and comes off effortlessly. It gives the wettest deepest look I have personally seen on any car. And I apply and remove the wax by hand only. I have people comment on how deep the color is on the car. Best of all, you can wax the whole car and remove it in less than an hour. My paint is nearly flawless, people can't believe it's a '98.

 

[onerareviper]

Totally agree with Matt M. and ViperJon. The key to removing swirls is using an abrasive (Zaino Fusion or 3M SMR or 3M Finnesse It). I have never used the Zaino Fusion (although I plan to give it a shot), but can attest to the excellent results I always obtain with 3M products. I would say more professional bodyshops use 3M products over anything else - by far. Just going by what I've seen.... That being said, you have to use the product properly with the right equipment. 3M website is very helpful picking out the right product, along with the tech. line you can call. Many of the professional products they offer (I've used Finnesse It II) contain no silicons or fillers. I've also used the 3M Swirl Mark Remover you can buy at Pep Boys, and that work well also. It does seem to leave more of a 'greasy' finish (for lack of a better term), but did remove all the swirls. To make sure it just wasn't 'covering' then up, I sprayed to car with 50/50 mix of water/alcohol. That will remove any filler left by the product. The swirls were still non-existant, so I recommend that product as well.

BTW - Swirl Mark 'Removal' by hand is the last thing I would recommend to anyone. You have to use a machine for good results, IMO, either a orbital or rotary. Swirl Mark 'Filling' by hand is fine, though.... (Zaino Z2/Z5, NXT, etc..). Actually, I think those terms should be used to avoid confusion (ie. - Swirl Mark REMOVAL and Swirl Mark FILLING.)

 

[Gerald]

It's simple. Use a clean micro fiber towel. If you get ONE grain of sand in the towel or ANY towel...you're screwed.
If you use wax and dipped a sponge or towel in there and that had sand in it guess what..?, you now have sand in your wax...causing swirls.
It's actually best to use a mechanical device but you've GOT TO USE CLEAN bonnets, foam pads, etc. If your cloth TOUCHES the ground, WASH IT OR BUY NEW MICRO FIBER TOWELS.

The advice not to use mechanical devices and only liquid waxes is just plain silly. It's the application procedure. Make sure your towels/sponges/applicator pads/bonnets are perfectly clean..if they are questionable..THROW THEM OUT.

hoped that help.....

And nothing works better than a $20 small random orbital buffer (well maybe a more expensive one ) with a couple clean 100% cotton bonnets with 3M FINISH restorer.. Gets every damn swirl mark out.... ! And it's SO easy to use..

I just did my ENTIRE 98 Red GTS and the paint looks like it did off the showroom floor after suffering from swirl marks for nearly 5 to 6 years.. yeeeehhhhaaaaaw!

Gerald