T&D RR install question...

[97snk]

So I've these on but I m not sure what to do next for adjustment, any help from people who have done these before will be appreciated...

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Torque specs for T&D from search...

The actual rocker bolts torqued to 25 lbs. (stand bolts are 35-40 and adjuster screw jam bolt says 5-20)...

How do you torque the actual rocker bolts? I mean does the crank have to be turned for each individual rocker. Also I bought these used and the T&D shaft height gage was not included, can I use something else that I can buy locally?

If someone whose done T&D before could list a step by step direction that would really help...

Thanks in advance...

 

[ViperTony]

I've done this installation a few times now and I have pics for a write up but never got around to it, yet. The stand height gauge from T&D is used to measure rocker geometry. Basically, the T&D procedure requires you to take a rocker apart and mount the pedestal portion as below:

Then, using the stand height gauge, holding it perpendicular to the pedestal and valve stem will indicate if the geometry is off or not. The T&D kit comes with various-sized washers use to raise the rocker stand, if needed, to achieve proper geometry such as when the rocker stand is too low. In some case, the rocker stand is too high and may require milling the stand bosses on the cylinder.

The normal gauge has a piece of aluminum that runs down the side of the valve stem. I modified the stand height gauge so it can be used with the spring/retainer installed with the valve stem:

There's another way to check for geometry which I learned from Greg Good and is reliable and easier to perform. I'm comfortable doing this procedure now because I've done it so many times. But the procedure requires that you have either the correct length push rod or an adjustable push rod checker set to the correct length and the rocker torqued down with appropriate lash. Essentially, you take a sharpie and mark up the rocker roller tip. Place a piece of tape (optional) on top of the valve stem. Rotate the engine until the rocker goes threw two iterations of movement. This will leave behind a line on the tape/top of valve stem indicating the sweep of the rocker:

If you look at the picture above, the second valve has a mark left behind from this procedure. If the sweep is too wide, or the mark is too high up or too low on the valve stem the geometry is off. It should leave behind a very narrow line a hair before the center of the valve stem.

The rocker stand bolts are the large bolts that sit under the rocker in the pics above. Line up your rocker stand on the cylinder so that the "V10" marking on the stand faces toward you. (that's what I was told but I don't think it matters). Then install the bolts and torque down to 40 ft lbs.

But you need to check for push rod length and find the base circle, or TDC, for the cylinder you're measuring for push rod length. If this isn't done properly everything else will be off.

There's some really good information here by JackB on the topic:
http://forums.viperclub.org/illustrated-upgrades/602295-adjusting-roller-rockers-made-easy.html

I used a 31mm socket on the crank bolt to turn the engine over when finding TDC and adjusting valve lash.

ViperSpecialty, Roe Racing and others sell adjustable pushrod length checkers. I believe T&D also sells it. You can also buy any parts missing from the T&D kit directly from T&D.

Hope this helps.
- tony

 

[97snk]

Thanks Tony, I like the Greg Good procedure, will keep you posted on how it goes...

 

[SR 27]

Adjust intake rocker when exhaust valve (same cylinder) begins to open.
Adjust exhaust rocker when intake valve (same cylinder) begins to close.

 

[97snk]

Adjust intake rocker when exhaust valve (same cylinder) begins to open.
Adjust exhaust rocker when intake valve (same cylinder) begins to close.

This might be stupid question but how to determine when it begins to open/close?

Edit nevermind, found this video that goes over it...

YouTube - COMP Cams® Roller Rocker Arms on V8TV

 

[1TONY1]

This might be stupid question but how to determine when it begins to open/close?

Edit nevermind, found this video that goes over it...

YouTube - COMP Cams® Roller Rocker Arms on V8TV

If yours is a hydraulic cam just put each piston at TDC compression stroke and adjust intake and exhaust at the same time. To find the compression stroke you watch the intake valve open then close and then when the piston comes to the top you are there.


Personally, the first time I bolt a set of rockers on I would do one cylinder at a time and adjust. If you bolt them all on, they are loose until you adjust them....that gives the pushrods an opportunity to fall out....sometimes they can be retrieved with a magnet....sometimes they end up in the pan.

 

[1TONY1]

Line up your rocker stand on the cylinder so that the "V10" marking on the stand faces toward you. (that's what I was told but I don't think it matters).
- tony

Oh, it matters big time. If you don't get the stand on correctly the rocker geometry is way off. The rocker receiver area is not in the middle, it is offset. I had a car come in with issues and found the stands were on upside down.... it had chewed up half the valve tips. Very expensive mistake.

What Tony is talking about is on one end of the stand there is a light stamp: "V10"
This stamp needs to be upright when reading it from the corresponding side of the car.

97snk, have you checked pushrod length ?

 

[97snk]

Oh, it matters big time. If you don't get the stand on correctly the rocker geometry is way off. The rocker receiver area is not in the middle, it is offset. I had a car come in with issues and found the stands were on upside down.... it had chewed up half the valve tips. Very expensive mistake.

What Tony is talking about is on one end of the stand there is a light stamp: "V10"
This stamp needs to be upright when reading it from the corresponding side of the car.

97snk, have you checked pushrod length ?

According to T&D instructions the V10 stamped logo went downward and that is how I installed it. Looking forward to the adjustment tonight...

And no I've not checked the pushrod lenght, the Head/cam/rockers came off of a turbo 99 GTS so I m thinking I could bypass this step but as usual I could be completely wrong...

The pushrods read 7960 comp cams 7.650 .080

 

[NI-KA]

bump great thread

 

[NI-KA]

Not to raise other issues but I have read on this forum where claims were made that stated using the washers was not a good idea and that the T&Ds will produce the wrong geometry unless steps other than washers/shims are used. Note: I have T&Ds on my GTS. I am currently having the geometry verified.

 

[97snk]

Not to raise other issues but I have read on this forum where claims were made that stated using the washers was not a good idea and that the T&Ds will produce the wrong geometry unless steps other than washers/shims are used. Note: I have T&Ds on my GTS. I am currently having the geometry verified.

I got my set used and it didn't come with any washers/shims, I'll keep this thread updated on how it all worked out...do you happen to know the specs of the washer/shim that came with the T&D's?

 

[1TONY1]

According to T&D instructions the V10 stamped logo went downward and that is how I installed it. Looking forward to the adjustment tonight...

And no I've not checked the pushrod lenght, the Head/cam/rockers came off of a turbo 99 GTS so I m thinking I could bypass this step but as usual I could be completely wrong...

The pushrods read 7960 comp cams 7.650 .080

I said upright and you said downward and I bet we are talking the same but just to be sure.....As you look at the passenger side head from the passenger side of the car, the "V10" will be in the correct orientation just like you were reading it off a sheet of paper...not upside down. I "think" that puts the "V10" on the left side of the head. Pass side towards firewall and drivers side toward the headlight.

You probably don't need the shims.

Your pushrods will may be correct. I wanted to make sure you were not using stockers....instructions should tell you where the adjusting nut will be, if it's good after adjusting then no need for a checker. Most likely one thread sticking out. If it's recessed or more than 1.5 to 2 threads up you might want to measure. Another thing you can do is mark the top of a couple of valves with a sharpie and after adjusting and turning/spinning the engine over look at the patten the roller tip leaves on the valve tip. You can also sight down the valves on the front of the engine and watch the movement of the roller on the valve tip.
Middle of the tip is good....towards the edges = bad.

 

[97snk]

I said upright and you said downward and I bet we are talking the same but just to be sure.....As you look at the passenger side head from the passenger side of the car, the "V10" will be in the correct orientation just like you were reading it off a sheet of paper...not upside down. I "think" that puts the "V10" on the left side of the head. Pass side towards firewall and drivers side toward the headlight.

You probably don't need the shims.

Your pushrods will may be correct. I wanted to make sure you were not using stockers....instructions should tell you where the adjusting nut will be, if it's good after adjusting then no need for a checker. Most likely one thread sticking out. If it's recessed or more than 1.5 to 2 threads up you might want to measure. Another thing you can do is mark the top of a couple of valves with a sharpie and after adjusting and turning/spinning the engine over look at the patten the roller tip leaves on the valve tip. You can also sight down the valves on the front of the engine and watch the movement of the roller on the valve tip.
Middle of the tip is good....towards the edges = bad.

sounds good...I'll take some pics of where the v10 goes on each side tonight just to overcome the confusion.

 

[NI-KA]

I don't have info on shim/washer spec

 

[97snk]

I don't have info on shim/washer spec

I doubt I'll need them...

Here's the pics from where the v10 goes on the shaft for confirmation...

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[ViperTony]

Oh, it matters big time. If you don't get the stand on correctly the rocker geometry is way off. The rocker receiver area is not in the middle, it is offset. I had a car come in with issues and found the stands were on upside down.... it had chewed up half the valve tips. Very expensive mistake.

What Tony is talking about is on one end of the stand there is a light stamp: "V10"
This stamp needs to be upright when reading it from the corresponding side of the car.

97snk, have you checked pushrod length ?

Thank you Tony for correcting me. I now remember this warning from Greg Good too. Sorry for putting out misinformation.

 

[ViperTony]

I got my set used and it didn't come with any washers/shims, I'll keep this thread updated on how it all worked out...do you happen to know the specs of the washer/shim that came with the T&D's?

I did use the thin shims but I had head and cam work done. On my stock setup, I didn't need shims and the stock height pushrods were fine. I'll get out the digital caliper and measure the shim thickness for reference.

 

[Jack B]

So I've these on but I m not sure what to do next for adjustment, any help from people who have done these before will be appreciated...

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Torque specs for T&D from search...

The actual rocker bolts torqued to 25 lbs. (stand bolts are 35-40 and adjuster screw jam bolt says 5-20)...

How do you torque the actual rocker bolts? I mean does the crank have to be turned for each individual rocker. Also I bought these used and the T&D shaft height gage was not included, can I use something else that I can buy locally?

If someone whose done T&D before could list a step by step direction that would really help...

Thanks in advance...

Look in the "How To's", I have a write-up on the adjustment procedure. Don't take this the wrong way, but, an open engine is not a good storage area for bolts. The odds are not very good that the push rods will be exactly correct. There is not a wide range for error. If you take the rocker outside the range you either weaken it or restrict the oil.

 

[97snk]

Well today turned out to be a total disaster...

Here's the outcome...

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Still confused about how it happened, was turning the crank and heard a noise and upon inspection this is what it turned out to be, good thing summit sells them individually...Will give it another shot next week...going out of town tomorrow...

Edit: went back and checked all the shaft bolts and one of them was not torqued down...I m really pissed at myself right now for not double checking...when I turned the crank the bolt hit the rocker and did not let it move hence putting all pressure on the push rod which resulted in the pic above...lesson learned...