TeamTech Harnesses

[VIPORXXX]

Received my Teamtech harnesses a few weeks ago.
Need advice on installation options.
1st) Is this a "do it yourself" project? Considering I felt challenged at first installing my K&N Filter and smooth tubes.
(Now you understand my technical expertise and experience)
2nd) How much would it cost to get installed for 2 harnesses?
3rd) How long will an experienced shop take to install?
4th) If I attemp it...how much time should I alot??? No jokes here please!
Thanks
Fast Eddie

 

[Janni]

Its not a real "technical" thing - it just require patience and following directions. That said - I would allow 4-5 hours.

Instructions are can be accessed by clicking on my "homepage" icon below and send me an email and I can send you the templates that we have developed - frightening to cut those bulkhead pieces - that's the worst part....

Contact us if any questions....

 

[BWoodbury]

Autoform will be glad to sell you pre-cut bulkheads! Keep the originals and save a lot of time and stress!!!

Sorry folks, but I'll be hyping Autoform for a while now for very good reason!

I could not find the part on the Autoform Web Site but I know I saw them in their catalog, so just give them a call at 616-392-4909. Good Luck!

 

[Tom Welch]

VIPORXXX,

WHOOOAAAAA!! Don't cut anything yet. Call or email me and I will tell you how to install the harnesses without any cutting.
We supply Teamtech Harnesses with all of our Viper Roll Bars and no cutting for harness mounting is required.


Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[BWoodbury]

Tom,

Isn't that because you mount the harness to the roll bar?

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VIPORXXX:
Received my Teamtech ..Need advice on installation options.
1st) Is this a "do it yourself" project? Considering I felt challenged at first installing my K&N Filter and smooth tubes
2nd) How much would it cost to get installed for 2 harnesses?
3rd) How long will an experienced shop take to install?
4th) If I attemp it...how much time should I alot???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1) I have customers who enjoy it, are very meticulous, and take a weekend of it. Measure 3 times.....cut once.
2) My dealer charges 5 hours...and has done several.
3) 5 hours times shop x rate.
4) Take a weekend....

--The AutoForm panel "LOSES" the glove cubby box, and the cargo holder. It is shiny/hard, not OEM looking. But very nice, and avail in colors and carbon-look. [ PartsRack $279]

--IF the roll-bar harness costs you the use of the OEM belts,--some do--this is illegal in 50 states. It then forces you to wear 5-pts at all times. Can be disagreeable to most female passsengers, and sweaty for all on hot days!

Janni Cone's offer of illustrated instructions makes it MUCH easier! THANKS JANNI on behalf of all harness users/installers

 

[Henry Cone]

Tony, you're right about the using the anti-sub strap with a stock seat. It is too far forward to be as effective as it should be unless you use a race seat with a slot cut in the bottom for the anti-sub to come through. I highly recommend Team Tech 6 points for anyone who is serious about doing road course events. And the 6 points are actually easier to install though a little more difficult to use. By the way this problem is common to any brand 5 points, not just Team Tech's.

If you are installing 5 or 6 point Team Tech harnesses there is no reason to lose the stock belts. Our install instructions show how to retain full function of the stock belts along with the 5 or 6 point harnesses. You don't have to lose one in order to have the other!!

Feel free to contact Janni or I for copies of the instructions. We want everyone to be as safe as possible. Not only is having harnesses MUCH safer but they enable you to drive the car much better. You can't really go fast without them...

 

[Tom Welch]

John,

Your statement about 50 state legality for seatbelts is(may be) INCORRECT. As a matter of fact(and you of all should know) that the viper ACR comes from the factory with 5 way harnesses.

Furthermore, every Jet airplane cockpit, Top Fuel Dragster, The space Shuttle, NASCAR, INDY CAR, ORECA Viper, and so on use 5 way harnesses instead of the factory restraint system. The roads would be a much safer place if ALL cars were equipped with 5 way harnesses and roll bar devices!

Tom

 

[Janni]

Tom,
Federal Safety Standards state that seatbelts must have an auto-retracting device. (Someone did some research on this a while ago and said that if you want to wear your harnesses on the street you should ewear them IN ADDITION to your stock belts...) Since 5 points (or 6 points, for that matter) do not, then technically, when used alone, they are illegal. Safer? You betcha! We all know that ACRs come with 5 point harnesses (for RACING!), and you know D-C retained the stock 3 points for street use - as they are REQUIRED TO BY LAW.

Safety would be turning off the airbags and wearing a helmet, 6 points and having a complete roll cage. However, this may not be practical for all Viper owners. It may also be difficult for safety personnel not familiar with extricating a person from these belts.

Roll bars offer more protection, as do harnesses. However, if the installation of the roll bar makes using the stock seatbelts impossible, then it is illegal to drive with harnesses ONLY. Would you get ticketed? Maybe.

If you are not going to put a roll bar / cage in your car, should you skip the harnesses? Absolutely not. It is relatively easy to install harnesses without a rollbar, too.

 

[Tom Welch]

HHHMMMMM!!,

Janni, Mr. Vipermad(Tony) emailed me a similiar story to yours. I paid my Lawyer to make sure that there are no issues with installing aftermarktet approved restraint devices in the factory mounting locations and he assured me, as I gave him my check, that there are no legality issues. I am going to foward him the information that Tony sent me for review.

For now I guess I have to temporariliy apologize to Jon B. **** that hurts!

I will post verbadum results as soon as I get them.

Also, there may be another way to mount the shoulder harnesses without cutting. Harness manufacturers make two mounting styles for the shoulder harness; roll bar mount, which mounts to the roll bar behined the drivers seat and, FLOOR mount which extends down behined the seat and mounts to the factory lap belt mounts or chassis via the floor. Any experience with that? I have installed several floor mount shoulder harnesses over the years in lots of different cars with no reprocussions from the DMV.

Tom

 

[jimandela]

janni,
that is why the NYS MDV told me yes i can legally put in a
5 pt harness but i would be required to wear my seatbelt!!
making my set up a 8pt system!!LOL

hope i dont need to reach for my wallet to get thru the toll booth!!!

and safety personnel would have to cut me out.. thanks lawmakers!!!

 

[Richard K]

On this subject, by coincidence I was stopped by a Michigan State Trooper last Saturday on I-696 while I was out driving with my 5 year old son. He saw my son wrapped up under the TeamTech belt and wanted to take a look at the set-up from a "safety perspective". I explained the passenger air bag was disabled, and he laughed and said "well, based on what I see there's no way he's going to get close to that airbag even if it did go off". I had my regular seat belt on, but there was nothing said about my son not wearing his under the 5 point. He was more concerned about the tanks of nitrous and propane that were visible in the trunk (should have left the cargo cover on!). He made the statement "I'm sure you don't use those for racing on the roads do you?" I looked at him with a questioning look of disbelief and said "Sir... Please!" He smiled and told me to be careful and have a nice day.

 

[Janni]

Tom,
Please keep us updated. The "auto tensioning" device has been the sticking point, as far as I know. Also, while there is no problem using the stock mounting points to attach the 5 points, I think the problem is REMOVING the stock one - if you keep both, then its OK...

The floor mount is interesting - would you have to route them through the seat back? My only concern would be that in an impact, the seat back would have to be strong enough to absorb the impact without breaking in half or folding forward. Do you have any pictures? I'd like to see an install that did not require bulkhead cutting.

Thanks and keep us updated.

EDIT***

Did a little digging. Text below copied from NHTSA Section 208

Standard No. 208 -- Occupant Crash Protection

This standard originally specified the type of occupant restraints (i.e., seat belts) required. It was amended to specify performance requirements for anthropomorphic test dummies seated in the front, outboard seats of passenger cars and of certain multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses, including the active and passive restraint systems identified below. The purpose of the standard is to reduce the number of fatalities and the number and severity of injuries to occupants involved in frontal crashes. Generally, the requirements are as follows:

Passenger Cars (Effective 1-1-68)

Lap or lap and shoulder seat belt assemblies for each designated seating position. Except in convertibles, lap and shoulder seat belt assemblies are required in each front outboard seating position.

Passenger Cars (Effective 1-1-72), Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks and Buses - Options a and b only (Effective 1-1-72)

Passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating of 4536 kg (10,000 lbs.) or less, and buses (driver's seat only) shall have:

a. A complete passive protection system, or

b. Lap belts, belts warning and meeting 48 km/h (30 mph) crash test requirements, or

c. Lap or lap and shoulder belts, seat belt warning; outboard seats shall have a single-point pushbutton release and emergency-locking or automatic-locking seat belt retractors.

Passenger Cars (Effective 1-1-73)

Requirements same as above except upper torso restraints shall have an emergency-locking retractor.

This last part is the part that disallows the use of 5 or 6 point harnesses as your ONLY seatbelt system in a vehicle.

If used properly, the 5 /6 point is better, but since it does not have the emergency locking mechanism, if someone got in the car, got lazy, and only loosely fastened the belts, or on did a couple of points....... We call that natural selection, government calls it protecting it from ourselves...

Hope this helps.

 

[Tom Welch]

Janni, Tony,

I noticed that the last and most conspicuous of the FMVSS 208 code was dated in 1973.

As for real world scenerios, I have a family member who had a head on collision and was wearing his factory 3 point harness. He submarined under the harness and received subsequent injuries from the dash to his knees and chest. Thank god he fully recovered. Some but not all auto seats have anti submarine plates to protect from this(i worked in the auto industry for a few years very closly with CALSPAN who performs most of the crash tests that we see on TV).

If my relative was wearing a 5 way harness this would not have happened. Note that the vehicle did not have pass side airbags.

My own viper uses the floor mount shoulder harness. It routes through the hole in the upper seat back and down to the factory lap belt mounts. The harness does not attach to the seat mounts. It is strong as long as the seat back maintains its integrity and saves from cutting the upper console. I have had no DMV issues with this nor have I had any problems with the NHRA during technical inspection. The funny thing is that if i run 11.99 or faster at an nhra track the factory seat restraint is illegal and I must use the 5 way harness. Oh well.

Thanks again for your input.

Tom

 

[JonB]

I was amazed to see TeamTech 6001-Ram-pacs in many of the ALMS and Trans-Am racers at Portland this weekend! Tommy Archer and Paul (not-so-GENTLE-Lozzi) had em. In-car cams and pre-race interviews revealed even more.

Pac-NW had dinner w/ Tommy Archer Saturday, after his great race and win. I talked privately w/ him about the "D-C Testing Accident" from the Cinjo Press release. Tommy was wearing a TeamTech and he credits it with saving him from greater injury, and perhaps worse. As it is, the TTs appear to have absorbed so much energy in frontal rib area, that the rearward transfer of energy may have broken the stock seat, and then the SEAT may have broken his ribs in his back area. His arm was thrown / flopped outside the vehicle window as it rolled, and he "unblinked" to pull it in "just in time." [Note To Self: Arm restraints a must for me, and Seat-back Braces on short drivers that do NOT rest their seat against the rear bulkhead! ]

After intensive care, he was able to only be comfortable for a week in a neck-deep therapy pool. He had a long de-briefing chat w/ Team Tech's owner as well.