The Life of Oil

[costanZo]

I don't feel the need to read this whole post..

I'm planning on just using Mobil 1 once I get my new car

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

No no....one Tribologist to another, I did not say oil and water mix, I simply said that hydrocarbons have a natural affinity (polar chemical attraction) to water. The number one problem w/ most oils is oxidation (reactions w/ water) and breakdowns b/c of. Carbohydrogens will always naturally react w/ water, and all natural base oils carry a carbohydrogens. My view is that polyaleolefins (Mobil one synthetic base) simply do not have nearly the vulnerability to oxidation as natural (carbohydrogen) oils, having chemical bonds much stronger and that hold up to higher temps and oxidation attack far superior to paraffin oils.

Paraffin oils (natural oils) must add additives to even begin to approach the viscosity hold up and performance temperature range of a polyaleolefin and as those additives wear and break down, the entire base oil characteristics drop off. I am sure there are some really good additives out there, but I would rather have a robust base oil (carrier) as well as good additives. And that for me is Mobil 1.

If you see a puddle under your car, you'll see that the oil doesn't like it and floats, creating the rainbow sheen. I don't know why you say there is an affinity (i.e. attraction).

Oxidation has nothing to do with water; (in oil) it is decomposition due to heat.

I never heard of a carbohydrogen, and I guess as a natural base oil you mean a mineral base oil. Poly-alpha-olefins do resist heat and are more resistant to oxidation. Paraffin is only one type of mineral oil, frequently used to describe a distilled product. Current engine oils use much more refined products now.

All oils, even synthetic oils, use additives. In fact, mineral oils and synthetics use about the same amount of additive (except for the viscosity index improver.) Neither base oil has any of the wear protection, dispersant or detergent, friction modification, nor corrosion protection needed. In some cases synthetics are worse for cleanliness because they do not "naturally" dissolve deposits like mineral oils can. For most driving (I am excluding prolonged operation over 300F sump temperatures or multiple starts at below -40F) there is no performance difference that the engine will notice. IF you see a difference, it is due to the additives.

For example, over the road trucks frequently extend drain intervals to 80,000 and up to 150,000 miles (maybe even more) using mineral oils. It's because the additive treat rate is 2X that of a Mobil 1 passenger car oil.

 

[belair1957]

A simple way to figure solubility is that "like dissolves like." Water is polar, hydrocarbons are non-polar. So one will not dissolve into the other.

My curiosity got the better of me on carbohydrogen. Based on Google Books, it appears to be a common term in texts from the 19th century. One compound listed was “naphthaline”, which I assume is the original spelling of naphthalene, a component of coal tar and definitely non-polar. Is that enough chemical trivia for a while?

 

[Kenneth Krieger]

Just to throw another wrench in the mix. The oil companies and the oil change business (ie: Oil Can Charlies, Brakes Plus, Midas, Jiffy Lube,etc. etc.) use the 3K mile oil change intervals as a way to BUILD business. (A friend has 3 oil change businesses locations!). My neighbor (drives a Ford F-150) has more than 300K miles on his truck and has canged the oil only 9 times!!! 9 times!!! That's about 35K miles between changes. When he changes the oil, after draining the oil, he pours about 1 pint of diesel fuel in the crank case, turns the engine over for about 10 seconds (without starting), and lets it "drip" for about 30 minutes to remove, as he puts is, the gunk in the crank case. Then he puts in the plug and fills "her" with oil, Pep boys cheapest brand, (also changes the filter with the cheapest filter he can find), and just keeps on driving! He says it uses about 2 quarts between "changes", but who give a "$h*t" when he saves all that money (his words!) by changing it every 35K miles!.
I have NEVER had an engine problem on any of my cars, and change the oil every 10,000 miles. My wifes car (300C Hemi) has only had ONE oil cange and has 23K miles. I guess I'll take it in next week for another change.....it's been 13K miles since the last one, (now I'm feeling a little guilty!), and it doesn't use ANY oil, and runs like a champ! I'm not cheap, I'm just educated about oil from my oil change business buddy!
PS.......he said, "don't spread this around.....it'll hurt my business!"

 

[300656]

Slightly off subject, but - any one use a pre-oiler on their Viper?

 

[Burntrubber]

Just to throw another wrench in the mix. The oil companies and the oil change business (ie: Oil Can Charlies, Brakes Plus, Midas, Jiffy Lube,etc. etc.) use the 3K mile oil change intervals as a way to BUILD business. (A friend has 3 oil change businesses locations!). My neighbor (drives a Ford F-150) has more than 300K miles on his truck and has canged the oil only 9 times!!! 9 times!!! That's about 35K miles between changes. When he changes the oil, after draining the oil, he pours about 1 pint of diesel fuel in the crank case, turns the engine over for about 10 seconds (without starting), and lets it "drip" for about 30 minutes to remove, as he puts is, the gunk in the crank case. Then he puts in the plug and fills "her" with oil, Pep boys cheapest brand, (also changes the filter with the cheapest filter he can find), and just keeps on driving! He says it uses about 2 quarts between "changes", but who give a "$h*t" when he saves all that money (his words!) by changing it every 35K miles!.
I have NEVER had an engine problem on any of my cars, and change the oil every 10,000 miles. My wifes car (300C Hemi) has only had ONE oil cange and has 23K miles. I guess I'll take it in next week for another change.....it's been 13K miles since the last one, (now I'm feeling a little guilty!), and it doesn't use ANY oil, and runs like a champ! I'm not cheap, I'm just educated about oil from my oil change business buddy!
PS.......he said, "don't spread this around.....it'll hurt my business!"

Ken, shouldn't we change it more down here in AZ because of all of the fine dust in the air?

 

[dave6666]

A simple way to figure solubility is that "like dissolves like." Water is polar, hydrocarbons are non-polar. So one will not dissolve into the other.

My curiosity got the better of me on carbohydrogen. Based on Google Books, it appears to be a common term in texts from the 19th century. One compound listed was “naphthaline”, which I assume is the original spelling of naphthalene, a component of coal tar and definitely non-polar. Is that enough chemical trivia for a while?

My parole officer once said I was polar.

 

[FATHERFORD]

Just a little interesting tidbit.

In one of my father's engine classes he teaches, they run engines without oil for about 15-20 minutes. The students build the engine with assembly lube and oil, and that's it. They have been using these same group of engines now for nearly 10 years, and show hardly any wear.