The Real Facts about "More HP and Torque from your Viper"

[Joseph Houss]

The Real Facts about \"More HP and Torque from your Viper\"

More horsepower and torque from your Viper!

You've probably already heard about the new Viper V10 performance numbers that have just been published. We would like to add some details to these results.

The new horsepower numbers are 510 hp at 5600 rpm. Torque is now 535 ft./lbs. at 4100 rpm. That's an additional 10 hp and 10 ft./lbs. over previous numbers. These numbers are based on a revised standard test run by SAE.

The new standard was created by a group of automotive manufacturers consisting of GM, Ford, Toyota and the Chrysler Group, working with SAE. Although the actual test conditions have not changed (temperature, pressure, etc.), they have been more clearly defined to remove any ambiguity for rating the engines.

We have always been conservative when rating our engines performances when they come out of the factory, mainly because we like seeing the reaction from our customers when their Vipers exceed those numbers. But we're also proud of these new numbers as they underscore our commitment to continue to provide Viper owners with the bragging rights they've always enjoyed. As a result of the new SAE procedures, the Viper V10 is now rated at 510 hp, which means it retains its leadership position when it comes to American muscle cars.

 

[DSR207]

Re: The Real Facts about

Thanks for the info. BTW, it seems like GM was the first to take advantage of the new standard and up the ZO6 numbers from 500 to 505 HP.
I think most of us already knew that the Viper had more than 500, based on many dynos done.

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

True, Viper has, by the skin of its teeth, retained top spot in HP.

The margin is so small though that it is insignificant. The performance numbers that the test Z06's have been putting down beat the Viper. Yeah, we'll see what happens with the cars that hit dealerships, but if history is any indication they will be as good if not better.

So the bottom line still is that Viper performance needs improvemetn to take top spot.

Sorry if this offends you.

 

[Makara]

Re: The Real Facts about

Yeah, so they need to "revise" the weight of the car now.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: The Real Facts about

Heck , a two pt. win in a Championship game is still the big kahuna. A field goal in triple overtime is still worth the big ring at the Superbowl, so , 5hp still puts the Snake atop the pile. The Bowtie Boys have been going nuts that they had more, and it was just a technicality. Now that we are back on top, on equal footing with measurements, have some pride in what you and your friends on the Forum drive.

We spend way too much time wondering what everyone else has , when we are still King in the area, but frankly we should not have had to even go there, since torque is what we are all about. Start tooting your horn again about 535 ft. lbs or torque, and then try to find someone knocking at the door.

We get more Vettes in trade,many months, than Vipers, so apparently a bunch of Chebby folks like the exclusivity, looks, and prestige of a very low volume, hand built muscle machine.

 

[BigCarrot]

Re: The Real Facts about

Oh wow. Same car, same motor, bigger number on paper. Way to go Dodge. Can you tell how excited I am?

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: The Real Facts about

Regardless, it is a good thing to be able to correct the Vette guys who haven't heard the news yet.

"My new Z06 has more horsepower that Davids Viper, nanny nanny boo boo!"

"Ugh, no it doesn't....let me tell you why"

Paperwork!

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

If we are going to make some sports analogies I would propose this as more accurate than those earlier:

New Coupe vs. C6 Z06: Currently we have two heavyweight prize fighters. One is a half inch taller, and a few pounds heavier. From other fights it appears the lighter fighter will win, but it is very close, and perhaps too close to call.

Back in the day: A heavywheight prize fighter vs. a middle weight. No contest who wins in the ring together.

Don't know about you, but I prefer to have the old scenrio back when there was no argument.


I won't even bring up the fighter's looks

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: The Real Facts about

Analogies are just that ,but I just stated facts. We played the same game, we won, nuff said. Amazingly I wonder if there is a purpose to criticize so much on this board and be a perpetual motion *** stirrer if you really like the Viper? For some reason , no matter what , it is never enough for you, so why is there an interest in things Viper, why not just go to the Vette Forums and tell them you are switching.

 

[sween]

Re: The Real Facts about

i was just wondering is there anything different between the srt-10 coupe and srt-10 convertable in performance besides aerodynamics?

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

Analogies are just that ,but I just stated facts. We played the same game, we won, nuff said. Amazingly I wonder if there is a purpose to criticize so much on this board and be a perpetual motion *** stirrer if you really like the Viper? For some reason , no matter what , it is never enough for you, so why is there an interest in things Viper, why not just go to the Vette Forums and tell them you are switching.

Wow, seems like I hit a nerve. Never enough for me? You mean the fact that they re-ran a test and came out with better numbers should be enough?

I love Vipers, that is why I want to see them clearly back on top.

So I am stirring the *** to try and get a ground swell to make this happen. What is really confusing as why people try to oppose getting more performance out of team Viper. So how about you tell me why you want to settle for just OK, or equal to team Corvette???? Of course you have a vested interest since you want to sell cars, and I suppose I may be making that harder. Rather than get angry with me you should ask DC to do more.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: The Real Facts about

Good question sween, since we know the aerodynamics will help the top speed, but will the 30% stronger torsional rigidity translate to better track, skid pad, and slalom times. Rumors are we will have a Coupe at our disposal for the Zone Autocross Winners vs DC Slalomasters in Detroit in October, so I will try and print out my seat of pants ( yep, I will do a racing buttnalysis )feelings about the solid roofed Snake. Of course we may see some automotive rags take on this prior to that, but I will probably feel more comfortable with a bunch of fellow Viperholics to get a true, in depth analysis.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: The Real Facts about

i was just wondering is there anything different between the srt-10 coupe and srt-10 convertable in performance besides aerodynamics?

In my opinion, it will be marginal at BEST. The cars are the same HP, Torque, driveline, front end, and windsheild, which have the MOST to do with its aerodynamics and overall "character" in its performance. The coupe weighs slightly more, but not enough to matter. I expect the aerodynamics between the two to be a marginal change in the same way.

As for torsional rigidity, you have to ask... when is enough... enough? The Gen-1 chassis was VERY STIFF. The Gen-2 RT Chassis was STIFFER. The Gen-2 GTS chassis was 30% stiffer than the Gen-2 RT, and the SRT-10 chassis is 30% stiffer than the GTS! I think the SRT-10 went beyond the point where it matters very much. Any Convertible the size of the SRT with the power and capability of the SRT...with NO shake or rattle, gets a downright A+ in my book. Time will tell...

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: The Real Facts about

Analogies are just that ,but I just stated facts. We played the same game, we won, nuff said. Amazingly I wonder if there is a purpose to criticize so much on this board and be a perpetual motion *** stirrer if you really like the Viper? For some reason , no matter what , it is never enough for you, so why is there an interest in things Viper, why not just go to the Vette Forums and tell them you are switching.

Wow, seems like I hit a nerve. Never enough for me? You mean the fact that they re-ran a test and came out with better numbers should be enough?

I love Vipers, that is why I want to see them clearly back on top.

So I am stirring the *** to try and get a ground swell to make this happen. What is really confusing as why people try to oppose getting more performance out of team Viper. So how about you tell me why you want to settle for just OK, or equal to team Corvette???? Of course you have a vested interest since you want to sell cars, and I suppose I may be making that harder. Rather than get angry with me you should ask DC to do more.

This kind of "STIRRING THE ***" does no good at all, you actually think that all by yourself you're gonna get a ground swell to happen? Why aren't people jumping on your little whiny bandwagon? You have assumed the mantle of Craig201mph, who at least was funny sometimes when he tried to accomplish the same thing. Those who have been to VOI's or other VCA gatherings and heard Don Knott and other engineers talk about the future have the utmost confidence they will ultimately keep Viper on top. And it is the COMPETITION of Corvette that will convince them to go further with performance, not the nattering, naysaying, negativity of folks like you. And as a Gen 2 owner you insult all the guys on this side of the board when you drop in on their forum and start another of these little rants. Remember the last time and how it degenerated to the point it had to be moderated? That hasn't happened in a long time. THAT is the sort of result that you are having, not the creation of a one man "groundswell." And lastly, why in the world do you make the assumption that the ZO6 will come out on top in a face to face. There is no way to know that yet. Roadracing for example might very well be the arena that the coupe will excel over the Z06......Why? BRAKES, just as important as weight or horsepower in that venue. So why don't you just slow your little one man campaign down until some real numbers come out on the new coupe or perhaps even the first road race. If the Z06 tromps the coupe at that point I too will join you in running out in the middle of the road screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling." Cause that will be real racing not the bench racing you are doing when you already award the Z top place on the podium without a single wheel turn.

 

[Janni]

Re: The Real Facts about

...Those who have been to VOI's or other VCA gatherings and heard Don Knott and other engineers talk about the future have the utmost confidence they will ultimately keep Viper on top.....

He's a nice guy, not funny looking at all. His name is Dan.

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

This kind of "STIRRING THE ***" does no good at all, you actually think that all by yourself you're gonna get a ground swell to happen? Why aren't people jumping on your little whiny bandwagon? You have assumed the mantle of Craig201mph, who at least was funny sometimes when he tried to accomplish the same thing. Those who have been to VOI's or other VCA gatherings and heard Don Knott and other engineers talk about the future have the utmost confidence they will ultimately keep Viper on top. And it is the COMPETITION of Corvette that will convince them to go further with performance, not the nattering, naysaying, negativity of folks like you. And as a Gen 2 owner you insult all the guys on this side of the board when you drop in on their forum and start another of these little rants. Remember the last time and how it degenerated to the point it had to be moderated? That hasn't happened in a long time. THAT is the sort of result that you are having, not the creation of a one man "groundswell." And lastly, why in the world do you make the assumption that the ZO6 will come out on top in a face to face. There is no way to know that yet. Roadracing for example might very well be the arena that the coupe will excel over the Z06......Why? BRAKES, just as important as weight or horsepower in that venue. So why don't you just slow your little one man campaign down until some real numbers come out on the new coupe or perhaps even the first road race. If the Z06 tromps the coupe at that point I too will join you in running out in the middle of the road screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling." Cause that will be real racing not the bench racing you are doing when you already award the Z top place on the podium without a single wheel turn.

You certainly are confused. There are many people on my 'bandwagon', and the real vote will be with their wallets. Why do you think Bill is trying to hype the coupe? He wants sales and knows that the performance alone isn't going to do it (my belief until he states otherwise).

I am awarding the Z the podium based on the early numbers. Time will tell for sure.

But once again you fail to answer my question of why YOU DON'T WANT MORE PERFORMANCE FROM THE VIPER. WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO HAVE VIPER CLEARLY ON TOP WITH NO ROOM FOR ARGUMENT (like in the past)???

By the way, in the last thread that degenerated to the point of needing a moderator to step in, do you recall that it was an SRT fanatic that needed to be hushed???

Why not just answer my question. If you have a good reason for desiring to be on par with the Corvette perhaps I will be silenced.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: The Real Facts about

A constructive way to get someone to change is to make suggestions in a calculated, professional manner, but to constantly berate any company to get off their butts, listen to me because I have all the answers, etc. is a dead end street for response. No one is sitting on their butts up there, but logic must occasionally prevail and noting you are an Executive for a company on the West Coast , I would expect you understand that change will not happen immediately. I can vouch that DC is listening and they are using both ears, as access for Dealers has never been so high. Friends who are in the business are astounded with the level of correspondence and openness we have , as it isn't happening at GM or Ford. One cannot play newspaper and stop the presses, as suppliers have been forecast out, items need to live out their contracted lives, yet DC has the record for turn-around that is now the Industry standard. Honey will keep the busy bees working alot harder than constantly swatting at the hive with a baseball bat, and Viper owners's voices have been heard. Take some pride that in the World of fair play we still are the numbers leader playing the same game, but have some patience. I have talked to many a SRT Engineer whose 18hr day is the norm, and the young guns up there are as passionate as us and have no intention of being down ( even perception wise ) for very long. If you love the Viper, as you note, my challenge to you is to just be more positive and stop the constant belittling of a vehicle you supposedly love. It is obvious you are passionate ,like all of us, but a change in this area would sure make many of us , and maybe even DC , more receptive when you voiced a legitimate concern.

 

[ViperRay]

Re: The Real Facts about

Just thought I'd interject here before this deteriorates any further.

Dan Knott told me when we were talking at Putnam that when the SRT team was asked how much they'd need to develop a coupe, they said $30 mil!

What they got was $6 mil. That explains the similarity of the coupe and the vert. They even figured out a way to keep the same windshield header and join the roof to it.

$6 mil. doesn't go as far as it used to!

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

A constructive way to get someone to change is to make suggestions in a calculated, professional manner, but to constantly berate any company to get off their butts, listen to me because I have all the answers, etc. is a dead end street for response. No one is sitting on their butts up there, but logic must occasionally prevail and noting you are an Executive for a company on the West Coast , I would expect you understand that change will not happen immediately. I can vouch that DC is listening and they are using both ears, as access for Dealers has never been so high. Friends who are in the business are astounded with the level of correspondence and openness we have , as it isn't happening at GM or Ford. One cannot play newspaper and stop the presses, as suppliers have been forecast out, items need to live out their contracted lives, yet DC has the record for turn-around that is now the Industry standard. Honey will keep the busy bees working alot harder than constantly swatting at the hive with a baseball bat, and Viper owners's voices have been heard. Take some pride that in the World of fair play we still are the numbers leader playing the same game, but have some patience. I have talked to many a SRT Engineer whose 18hr day is the norm, and the young guns up there are as passionate as us and have no intention of being down ( even perception wise ) for very long. If you love the Viper, as you note, my challenge to you is to just be more positive and stop the constant belittling of a vehicle you supposedly love. It is obvious you are passionate ,like all of us, but a change in this area would sure make many of us , and maybe even DC , more receptive when you voiced a legitimate concern.

My concern is not with the guys on the line, my concern is with the executive team at DC. I just get the sinking feeling that they don't care and will not support the team with what they need to go and kick the Z06's butt. The post about the need for $30MM and getting $6MM would seem to be a good reason for all of us to be concerned.

I certainly understand that change doesn't happen overnight, and that sometimes honey works better than kick. I just don't think this is the time for honey.

If my team let the competition catch up, there would be hell to pay. I don't see this coming from DC. Which seems to indicate complacentcy rather than the will to regain the undisputed crown.

Will my ranting and raving have any effect? Who knows. If I had access to someone that could do something I would certainly take some actions to speak with them. I am confident that if all they heard was that what they are doing is fantastic and keep up the good work that they will have little desire to do anything more.

I guess the thing that really got me going was the winking and nodding BS. I found that patronizing.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: The Real Facts about

...Those who have been to VOI's or other VCA gatherings and heard Don Knott and other engineers talk about the future have the utmost confidence they will ultimately keep Viper on top.....

He's a nice guy, not funny looking at all. His name is Dan.

Oh, jeez, how embarassing! DON KNOTTS...Barney Fife! And I KNOW his name, I sat next to him at lunch at the meeting in January. DAN, I type too fast sometimes, sorry! And Janni, thank you for pointing that out......I think.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: The Real Facts about

A constructive way to get someone to change is to make suggestions in a calculated, professional manner, but to constantly berate any company to get off their butts, listen to me because I have all the answers, etc. is a dead end street for response. No one is sitting on their butts up there, but logic must occasionally prevail and noting you are an Executive for a company on the West Coast , I would expect you understand that change will not happen immediately. I can vouch that DC is listening and they are using both ears, as access for Dealers has never been so high. Friends who are in the business are astounded with the level of correspondence and openness we have , as it isn't happening at GM or Ford. One cannot play newspaper and stop the presses, as suppliers have been forecast out, items need to live out their contracted lives, yet DC has the record for turn-around that is now the Industry standard. Honey will keep the busy bees working alot harder than constantly swatting at the hive with a baseball bat, and Viper owners's voices have been heard. Take some pride that in the World of fair play we still are the numbers leader playing the same game, but have some patience. I have talked to many a SRT Engineer whose 18hr day is the norm, and the young guns up there are as passionate as us and have no intention of being down ( even perception wise ) for very long. If you love the Viper, as you note, my challenge to you is to just be more positive and stop the constant belittling of a vehicle you supposedly love. It is obvious you are passionate ,like all of us, but a change in this area would sure make many of us , and maybe even DC , more receptive when you voiced a legitimate concern.

My concern is not with the guys on the line, my concern is with the executive team at DC. I just get the sinking feeling that they don't care and will not support the team with what they need to go and kick the Z06's butt. The post about the need for $30MM and getting $6MM would seem to be a good reason for all of us to be concerned.

I certainly understand that change doesn't happen overnight, and that sometimes honey works better than kick. I just don't think this is the time for honey.

If my team let the competition catch up, there would be hell to pay. I don't see this coming from DC. Which seems to indicate complacentcy rather than the will to regain the undisputed crown.

Will my ranting and raving have any effect? Who knows. If I had access to someone that could do something I would certainly take some actions to speak with them. I am confident that if all they heard was that what they are doing is fantastic and keep up the good work that they will have little desire to do anything more.

I guess the thing that really got me going was the winking and nodding BS. I found that patronizing.

Vipah, it's not about the guys on the line, the guys you insult are the poor guys who run SRT. Who do the best they can with the budget they are given, who broke theit butts to get this coupe done with WHATEVER money they finally got from management. Ever work for a big company? I did, that's why I now work for myself. These guys risked their careers in an environment where profit was king and the SRT convertible was completely SOLD OUT to US Viper owners with the cert program for 03 to get a coupe out, they listened and did their best TO CONVINCE MANAGEMENT TO BUILD A COUPE THAT MANAGEMENT DID NOT THINK WAS NEEDED BECAUSE THE CAR WAS SOLD OUT AS A CONVERTIBLE. This is what the Viper engineering group has always been about from the start with the relationship with VCA and the customer, they listen, when we talk NICE. And what they probably need from us in case a big executive above them is reading this is that we like the coupe, not the alternative. Big exec reads your drivel calls down to SRT and says....What the hell did we spend that for they don't even like it, don't spend any more money on that platform. That is EXACTLY the way it would work in a big company. You ain't helping. And what's with the wink and nod stuff that seems to have your ******* in a bunch, I don't know what you mean. Jeez, now you're gonna post again, ain't I stooopid.

 

[vipah]

Re: The Real Facts about

Jeez, now you're gonna post again, ain't I stooopid.

Hey, we finally agree on something!