Tire Pressure Sensors and Track Wheels

[Kai SRT10]

There has been a great deal of angst about the tire pressure sensors and what will happen if you change wheels.

Rumors have been circulated that it was necessary to visit the dealer and get your tire pressure module retrained every time you wanted to change wheels.

Here is my experience.

I purchased 4 pilot sport cup tires mounted on SSR Comp H wheels
I also purchased 2 BFG drag radials mounted on SSR Comp H wheels

I had to get the e-brake relocated to allow the 18 inch SSR rear wheels to fit.

I bought 6 new tire pressure sensors from my Dodge dealer and had them mounted in the new wheels (the sensors are integrated into the valve stem.)

I took all six new wheels to the dealer and had them mount them on the car and then "train" the tire pressure module to recognize the new wheels. They then re-mounted my street wheels.

So, last night, I experiemented. I mounted the BFG drag radials on the rear of the car. I drove around my neighborhood. No warning lights or chimes. In the interest of experimentation (actually, I just messed up) I put the BFG wheels on the wrong side (mounted the wheel "trained" to the left on the right, and visa versa) Still, no chime.

So, it seems that one can change tires at will, so long as sensors have been installed and trained to the module.

Tonight, I am going to install the 4 track wheels and tires and try the same thing, just to make sure that I can alternate more than one set.

Kai

 

[pauljkopick]

Kai- Thanks much for sharing,keep us posted. I have a VCA edition & dont want to track the smoked wheels. Any pixs.Great post

 

[Brad04Mamba]

Please post pictures with the four SSR wheels. I am going back and forth on those or the forgelines. Thanks

 

[Vipera Russelli]

That is great news! Let us know how it goes with the track tires! I think the tire pressure module may only check periodically, so you may want to drive around for at least half an hour at speeds in excess of 25 mph just to be sure. Pending positive feedback from you on the four track tires, I'm calling JonB on Monday and getting my track-tire order changed to include the sensors before it's too late! Thanks for sharing Kai! Lots of us are very interested in what you're doing.

 

[Kai SRT10]

According to the Service Manual, the tire pressure sensors are activated immediately when the car reaches 20mph.

I put all four SSR Wheels with Pilot Sport Cups on the car and took it for an afternoon drive. Speeds were well in excess of 20mph and I drove for about 1/2 hour. No chimes, no warning lights, no problems.

I was surprised at the differences in handling with the new wheels and tires. The ride was noticably less "bouncy" than with the runflats. I guess that the combination of the softer sidewalls and lighter wheels really does make a difference.

Here is a picture of the car with the SSR wheels and Sport Cup tires:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Skip White]

Kai, great wheels, I really like mine. The SSR Comp really look better than the pictures convey. They have a look that's hard to capture in a pic.

I went with the 11 fronts all the way around. This let me to run the big Nitto 305/45/18 drag radials.

Skip White

 

[Viper X]

Hi Kai,

I just picked up a set of SSR wheels to mount drag tires on. I'm trying Skip's set up. I too installed the tire sensors in the wheels, hoping to avoid chimes or lights. I just referred to the SRT-10 service manual and indeed DC makes you go to the dealer and use their diagnostic tool to "train" the tire sensors, unless you can buy this DRB III tool somewhere else. I was able to do this myself with my Corvette and a magnet. The procedure is similar with the Viper, but you need the DRB III tool to accomplish it.

How do you like the Pilot Sport Cups?

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Thanks for personally testing and reporting back on the tire pressure sensor issue, Kai. We were all hoping you would get the result you did, even though lots of information suggested you wouldn't. You bet the cost of the stems and the costs of having to have the tires removed and replaced again, and you won the bet. We all won. Nice work!

The new wheels look great and the Motons help the look as well. Nice set up.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Uh oh!

Driving to work this morning (on street tires) the "lo tire pressure" light came on.

Not a good sign.

Can't figure out why it would go on now. I've gone from street tires to drag radials back to street tires, then to track wheels with no issues.

Maybe I damaged the monitor swapping wheels.

 

[ViperGMC]

I have had the exact issue. For two weeks no problem swapping tires then one morning “ding”. I originally thought it was because I changed the PCM but, now I am thinking its something else after reading your post. I thought about damage but can’t see how. Weird. It’s like the car let you “play” with different tires for a while and then says enough.

 

[Vipera Russelli]

The TPM probably checks once every 100 miles.

 

[Brian E]

Each time you remove and replace the wheels, the sensors have to be relearned. (recalibrated with a DRB and a magnet)
I had the same situation, drive for 20-30 miles and the Lo Tire would come on.
The first couple times, the tech would just turn the Lo Tire off with the DRB and didnt relearn the sensors. Finally Mark J. at Woodhouse came to the rescue and talked my local tech through the process.
Now if all you have is a tire go low, all the tech has to do is turn the Lo Tire off with the DRB without relearning the sensors.
I went through this learning curve a year ago.
The magnet my tech used was from a Jeep Cherokee. They use a similiar system. The Cherokee owners can reset their own systems without having to return to the dealer. I still cant figure out why you have to go back to the dealer on the Viper, but not the Cherokee.

 

[Kai SRT10]

The TPM probably checks once every 100 miles.

That doesn't make sense, as I left the dealer with street tires, and I was driving with street tires when the light went off.

 

[Kai SRT10]

This is not a good sign:

http://www.schraderelectronics.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=ACF27E.pdf&folder=brochure

They are advertising a "new and improved" system that seems to avoid all the issues I am having with my system.

Just when I thought everything was fine . . .

 

[Vipera Russelli]

The TPM probably checks once every 100 miles.

That doesn't make sense, as I left the dealer with street tires, and I was driving with street tires when the light went off.

Were your street wheels the last to be programmed in the TPM? If the TPM only holds four tires, as we speculated grimly previously, perhaps the street wheels programing has been replaced with the track wheels programming (assuming the track wheels were programmed last). Hopefully not. Maybe it's something else all together. Have you check your tire pressure??? Now wouldn't that be a hoot if the system was actually just working? Any chimes associated with the light coming on?

 

[Kai SRT10]

The TPM probably checks once every 100 miles.

That doesn't make sense, as I left the dealer with street tires, and I was driving with street tires when the light went off.

Were your street wheels the last to be programmed in the TPM? If the TPM only holds four tires, as we speculated grimly previously, perhaps the street wheels programing has been replaced with the track wheels programming (assuming the track wheels were programmed last). Hopefully not. Maybe it's something else all together. Have you check your tire pressure??? Now wouldn't that be a hoot if the system was actually just working? Any chimes associated with the light coming on?

Yes, I checked the tire pressure right off the bat.
I don't know what they trained last at the dealer. My guess is that it was the track tires.
A single chime, and a "low tire" message. No further chimes.
I'm thinking that I may just do without the tire pressure monitor. No way in hell I'm paying the dealer $100/hour for the viper tech to reprogram my tpm every time I change wheels.

I am now officially grumpy.

I sent an e-mail to Herb Helbig at the Viper Magazine technical question section asking about this issue. I also sent an e-mail to Schrader seeing if they could provide me with sensors with identical i.d. codes.

If the system really only monitors the pressure at 100 mile intervals, how useful is that, really? I assumed (and the service manual says) that the tpm is activated as soon as the wheels go faster than 20mph. I've driven the street tires, track tires, and drag tires all well over 20mph, with total driving of several hours.

I can't figure out why I'm having trouble now.
Skip's tire pressure monitor system is looking better and better.

 

[Kai SRT10]

The plot thickens.

Took the car into the dealership.

They looked at it. Said the problem is a right front tire sensor that wasn't working. They re-trained it, and now (supposedly) all is well.

Tomorrow will be the real test, as I am again changing out the stock tires to the track tires and will be taking the car to the track to test out my new Pilot Sport Cups.

I'm going to drive the car a lot today on the street tires. We'll see what happens.

I'm hopeful.

We'll see what happens.

Skip: Where did you mount the SmartTire display unit?

 

[Skip White]

Kai, I'm using the Smart Tire system. The sensors mount around the inside barrel of the rim. They use a stainless steel strap to fasten them on. Very easy to put on. Let me know if you want the system, I have them in stock. They are so much better than the oem system.

Skip White

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Anxiously awaiting track testing results. Due to your reports so far, Kai, I've called JonB and had him change my wheel order to include the sensors and then called him back to change my order not to include the sensors. Forgeline is working on my wheel as I type. Sensors or no sensors, sensors or no sensors...

And of course as of this morning I learned on the board that Hoosier is now coming out with 19" rubber. Oh well, I'm committed to going 18" all around, the only question remaining is the damn sensor question. Sensors or no sensors, sensors or no sensors...

I hope you and the Sport Cups are having fun at the track today, and NOT the TPM <ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding>.

 

[Brian E]

I brought the SRT-10 out of storage Monday.
Immediately I have a Lo Tire warning.
I checked all the tires and the air pressure is fine. I had actually pumped them up to 45 psi to avoid flat spots while stored.
I did have one tire off over the winter, but put it back on without driving the car.
I decided to pay a visit to my local Dodge dealer.
The service advisor brought out the DRB and reset the light. He then tells me that I dont have to bring the car in to reset or relearn the sensors. He said that if the Lo Tire warning comes on and you dont have a low tire or a sensor failure, you can drive the car at 50 mph on a level grade road for a few miles and the system will reset itself.
Can anyone chime in as to the validity of this? Do we have any Viper Techs that frequent this board that could distinguish fact from fiction?
I am also wondering if this process is model year specific?

 

[Roadrunner]

The tire pressure monitoring system will not immediately fault out if you run a set of wheels with no sensors... It will wait for a number (I think 5 or so) ignition key cycles and vehicle motion before the lamp will come on due to no messages coming from the "stock" sensors. This is to prevent "false illumination" due to a slow to wake sensor.

So... If you leave your stock sensors in a set of "daily driver" rims, you can go to the track, run all day (with no sensors), finish up, swap back to street and head home with no light issues.

The sensors begin transmitting above 30mph, and it takes a few minutes for the monitor to read in all four corner pressure values... which effects how quickly the light will go on due to a low or critically low pressure condition (12 and 20psi?).

I like Kai's idea of getting a matched code set of sensors so you can just swap wheels/tires whenever without care.

 

[Kai SRT10]

The track wheels are working fine. No alarms, no warnings. Likewise, the drag wheels are working fine. However, the stock wheels are not working.

Here is, (I believe) the definitive answer:

I spent some quality time at the dealer today. We played with the DBIII diagnostic tool and my wheels to try and find out what is going on with my car. I got to watch as we used the DBIII to check the trouble codes, etc.

I found out the following:

My car's tire pressure module is set up to handle eight tire pressure sensor codes. The reason I have been having trouble is that I have 10 wheels.(4 stock, 4 track, 2 drag) The module can only recognize 8 sensor codes total. I looked at the DBIII screen. There is room for 8 codes, no more. My car's module had 8 different sensor codes in it, not 10.
When I took the car to the dealer and had my new track and drag wheels "trained", it kicked out two codes (for two of my stock wheels.) So, that is why I was having trouble driving with the stock wheels, but I could drive with the drag radials or track wheels all I wanted. The two front stock wheel sensor codes were no longer being recognized by the module because those codes had been kicked out to make room for the drag radial codes.

So, it appears that if you are only going to rotate between two sets of wheels, you are ok, provided that you initially visit the dealer and get the new sensors trained into your module. However, as soon as you train a total of more than 8 codes, you are going to lose any codes in excess of 8.

This explains why some folks can switch back and forth between track tires and street tires without issue, but I kept having problems.

So, for me, this means that I can run my stock and track tires without issue (provided that I re-train the module to recognize my stock tires again). However, as I can only have 8 codes total, then if I run my drag radials, I will get a low tire pressure fault.

In the end, however, I think I am going to just get rid of the OEM sensors and go with the SmartTire system. I like being able to monitor temperature and actual pressure, and it will work with all 10 of my tires, not just 8 of them.

 

[ViperGMC]

That might explain my situation. I had to replace one of my sensors that was damaged during mounting, the ninth one. If it bumped one of the eight codes, it would explain why my second set of tires bing. Thanks for the info.

 

[MAVERICK]

I'm using the Smart Tire system that Skip recommends and it works great, with SSR Comp H wheels and V700 Kuhmos. Took to Sebring this last weekend and it was great being able to read the tire pressure/temp indicator. Get the wireless system.....

 

[Vipera Russelli]

My car's tire pressure module is set up to handle eight tire pressure sensor codes. The reason I have been having trouble is that I have 10 wheels.(4 stock, 4 track, 2 drag) The module can only recognize 8 sensor codes total. I looked at the DBIII screen. There is room for 8 codes, no more. My car's module had 8 different sensor codes in it, not 10.
When I took the car to the dealer and had my new track and drag wheels "trained", it kicked out two codes (for two of my stock wheels.) So, that is why I was having trouble driving with the stock wheels, but I could drive with the drag radials or track wheels all I wanted. The two front stock wheel sensor codes were no longer being recognized by the module because those codes had been kicked out to make room for the drag radial codes.

So, it appears that if you are only going to rotate between two sets of wheels, you are ok, provided that you initially visit the dealer and get the new sensors trained into your module.

And THERE my friends is the answer! All hail to Kai! Awesome job troubleshooting and reporting results! Bummer about the limit of eight for your situation, but it's certainly enough for many of us. Thanks Kai for the value added to the board!

 

[Viper X]

Hey Kai,

My results fall right in line with your post, though I haven't had the second set of sensors trained. I just put a set of SSR comps on my car and used sensors that came out of factory SRT-10 wheels with no issues, so maybe they are still "trained"? So far, no issues with my stock wheels or my drag radial set-up. Too bad on the limit of 8 though. I plan to buy some track wheels for the summer.

 

[Kai SRT10]

If anyone's interested, I just listed 10 OEM tire pressure sensors on the "classified" page at $20 each including shipping.

I just got the SmartTire system installed, and no longer need the oem sensors.

 

[Brian E]

If anyone's interested, I just listed 10 OEM tire pressure sensors on the "classified" page at $20 each including shipping.

I just got the SmartTire system installed, and no longer need the oem sensors.

Kai, I dont see the add in the classifieds.
I know someone who would like all (10).
Send me an e-mail or a pm.

 

[Viper X]

I'll take 4 if they are still available. Let me know.

Dan

 

[Kai SRT10]

I'll take 4 if they are still available. Let me know.

Dan

You've got mail.

Kai