Tire Spinning On Rim During Track Use

[TRACKDAY]

Over the last several months of track use, I've noticed all four tires continue to spin on the rims during hard braking and acceleration. As a result, all four tires / rims end up out of balance. This is definitely a bad thing to happen while on track For your background knowledge, I always mark the tire with a piece of chalk in line with the valve stem and then note how far off the chalk mark is when I return to the pits.

In the past, I used Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires and didn't experience much in the way of tire / rim slippage. Several months ago, I upgraded to Hoosier R7's and have experienced ALOT of tire / rim slippage during track use (presumably due to it being a more aggressive race compound, as well as a full slick which produces more grip than the Michelin PSC's).

Has anyone else experienced this problem? If so, what was your solution?

I'm getting very tired of constantly re-balancing my tires / rims

In researching the problem, I saw there are tire / rim kits which prevent the tire from spinning on the rim; however, they are for drag radials not road racing tires / track cars.

I also discovered that Chevrolet, in developing the Z28 for track use, experienced the same problem. Their solution was to media blast the inner lip of the rim where the tire bead makes contact with the rim.

This sounds like a logical solution and I'm leaning towards having this done.

Thanks for any input

 

[Boxer12]

I'm curious, do you follow recommended tire pressures or are you running very low pressures? Are you using OEM Sidewinder wheels?

 

[Allan]

I Have not had any problems with the R7s.
Maybe the bead ĺubricant being used is the issue. .?

 

[TRACKDAY]

I'm curious, do you follow recommended tire pressures or are you running very low pressures? Are you using OEM Sidewinder wheels?

I contacted Hoosier and they recommended 30 - 34 PSI (cold) depending on the ambient temperature and type of track. That's considerably higher than what I was used to with the Michelin PSC's, but that's what Hoosier suggested so I'm going with it. I also have the camber set to -2.5 (front) and -1.5 (rear) which Hoosier advised is good to go.

As for the wheels, I use the Sidewinder II wheels.

 

[TRACKDAY]

I Have not had any problems with the R7s.
Maybe the bead ĺubricant being used is the issue. .?

I thought of that as well.

I plan on speaking with the guys at the shop the next time I take the tires / rims in to be re-balanced.

 

[AZTVR]

I Have not had any problems with the R7s.
Maybe the bead ĺubricant being used is the issue. .?

I thought of that as well.

I plan on speaking with the guys at the shop the next time I take the tires / rims in to be re-balanced.

I saw the following post about removing possible excessive mold release compound. This is the kind of thing that could be unique to one production run batch. http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/645773-New-tires-warning?p=2975036&viewfull=1#post2975036

 

[TRACKDAY]

I saw the following post about removing possible excessive mold release compound. This is the kind of thing that could be unique to one production run batch. http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/645773-New-tires-warning?p=2975036&viewfull=1#post2975036

I just read through the thread. It had some good information and ideas.

Thanks for posting it.

I'm starting to think too much tire mounting lubricant is a contributing factor along with the aggressive R compound and full race slick.

 

[AZTVR]

I just read through the thread. It had some good information and ideas.
I'm starting to think too much tire mounting lubricant is a contributing factor along with the aggressive R compound and full race slick.

There was an broken link in there to download a Toyo tires service bulletin on tire slip. I did find the current link for that. It focuses on the mounting lubricant: Technical Bulletin TSD-12-015 Toyo Tires

 

[TRACKDAY]

There was an broken link in there to download a Toyo tires service bulletin on tire slip. I did find the current link for that. It focuses on the mounting lubricant: Technical Bulletin TSD-12-015 Toyo Tires

Thanks for posting this as well.

It was definitely an interesting read and very informative from Toyo Tires.

It seems to confirm my suspicions of too much tire mounting lubricant.

I still plan on having the inner lip of the rims media blasted just as a preventative measure.

I plan on getting it done in the next few weeks.....fingers crossed

 

[AZTVR]

I still plan on having the inner lip of the rims media blasted just as a preventative measure.

Sounds like a good idea. I have a dim memory of one of the Viper guys talking about spinning tires on his rims; but, I can't remember if he was talking about his track car with Hoosiers or his Forced induction street car. I haven't seen him post here for a few months.

Recently one of the new Gen V ACR owners posted that he had seen very small notches in the ACR wheel in the bead contact area (tire bead not seated.) He assumed that was to help prevent the tires from spinning on the rim during hard braking.

 

[TRACKDAY]

Sounds like a good idea. I have a dim memory of one of the Viper guys talking about spinning tires on his rims; but, I can't remember if he was talking about his track car with Hoosiers or his Forced induction street car. I haven't seen him post here for a few months.

Recently one of the new Gen V ACR owners posted that he had seen very small notches in the ACR wheel in the bead contact area (tire bead not seated.) He assumed that was to help prevent the tires from spinning on the rim during hard braking.

You're correct about the notches in the rims. They're machined into the rims during manufacturing to prevent tire / rim slippage.

Nissan has been doing this to the GTR's rims for several years.

Glad to see Dodge & SRT are doing this to the Gen V ACR's wheels.....God knows it needs it due to the insane levels of downforce and grip this track monster produces

 

[38D]

Every race car I've had has spun the tires on the rim to some degree, especially with stickier tires/slicks. Even my 1992 Porsche 964 cup, with all of 260hp, does this, largely because of the very sticky Dunlop slicks. Typically what you see is the tire tends to "right itself" during the accel/braking cycles...or at least reasonably close. I've seen some guys mount the tires with hair spray instead of the typical tire lube, and they swear this eliminates the problem. The other thing you can do is just move the wheel weights when the balance gets off; if you mark your tire before they spin you can get a 'close enough' balance by moving the weights the same amount (aluminum tape helps keep them secure).

 

[TRACKDAY]

Every race car I've had has spun the tires on the rim to some degree, especially with stickier tires/slicks. Even my 1992 Porsche 964 cup, with all of 260hp, does this, largely because of the very sticky Dunlop slicks. Typically what you see is the tire tends to "right itself" during the accel/braking cycles...or at least reasonably close. I've seen some guys mount the tires with hair spray instead of the typical tire lube, and they swear this eliminates the problem. The other thing you can do is just move the wheel weights when the balance gets off; if you mark your tire before they spin you can get a 'close enough' balance by moving the weights the same amount (aluminum tape helps keep them secure).

Thanks for the good information and welcome to the VCA

I finally got the rims media blasted where the tire bead sits in the rim. I'm interested to see how effective this will be in eliminating the tire / rim slippage.

I've heard of using hair spray to mount the tires. I may use this technique as well when I mount the tires.

Track season will be here soon

 

[38D]

Thanks, looking forward to getting an ACR soon!

One other trick I've heard, though never used myself. Have just the rim balanced, separate from the tire. This way when the tire rotates, it's not off quite as bad.

My experience has always been I wore out or heat cycled my tires out long before I had a significant enough rotation issue. Or I had so many marbles in the rim the balance was off anyway (my CCW rimes seem to attract flag like a magnet). So I've just learned to live with it . Not claiming this

 

[TRACKDAY]

Just wanted to post an update:

After several track days this year, the media blasting of the inner lip of the rims has worked I have not had any tire slippage at all!

However, one thing I have learned is to ensure the tire bead has a VERY good seal to the rim, otherwise it will create a very slow air leak due to the rough rim surface from the media blasting.

Overall, I would recommend it if you're experiencing tire slippage on the rim. I found a local media blasting company in my area who charged $155 for all four rims.....well worth it