TNT rear mount turbo
- Thread starter Neil - UK
- Start date
Silver Snake
Enthusiast
Ugh! I hate that single outlet exhaust! It just looks wrong.
Mark
Mark
SnakeBitten
Enthusiast
- Joined
- May 18, 2001
- Posts
- 2,550
- Reaction score
- 0
That will be interesting to say the least....A few years back I had a video of a Camaro with a rear mounted turbo on it....My question was back then and still is now...Wont there be increased lag from this kind of setup? I mean the turbo is a good distance from the intake in a setup like this. Longer path for the charged air to travel..The connection pipe would be run under the car to the intake right? Wont this be another heat source entering the cabin that the Viper doesnt need???Even if wrapped?
Jay Herbert
Enthusiast
I kind of wondered about this, but after pondering, it makes sence. By using a single turbo, and the huge volume of exhaust gas a V-10 pumps out, the turbo could be nearly spun up just off idle. The only question would be one of the compressesed air in the piping from the back to the intake..... and how that air behaved as it entered the intake. It seems nowadays with VEC2's and other programmable engines controllers out their for our snakes, these worry's are greatly subsided.
The TT's under hood have had to jump through hoops to get their heat out from under the hood. Hence the high mounted turbo that West Cost Vipers is working on. But, with the turbo out back, the intercooler can be placed between the back and front, so minimal heat is up front. At least that was my pondering. It certainly is a different approach, and it puts the heat toward the back of the car, rather than by your feet.
dies
Viper Owner
Actually this isn't new. www.ststurbo.com makes various kits. Multiple truck magazines have reviewed their remote mount setup and love it. The piping back to the intake acts as a intercooler. Their kits are around 4k each, hopefully, TNT's won't be insanely priced. Also according to STS and the reviews, there is minimal boost loss (less than 1/2 lbs), the turbo runs about 500 degrees cooler than under hood, and intake temps are never over about 140-150 degrees. Sport Truck magazine did the latest review if I remember right.
Completely stock Tahoe dropped over 2 seconds in a quarter mile with 7 lbs of boost...
Completely stock Tahoe dropped over 2 seconds in a quarter mile with 7 lbs of boost...
Russ M
Enthusiast
Turbo's work off heat, mounting the turbo back there will not work very well in my oppinion.
Lag will be horible, power gained will be minimal, oiling problems will be massive.
Lag will be horible, power gained will be minimal, oiling problems will be massive.
Go Fast For Life
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2003
- Posts
- 374
- Reaction score
- 0
Check out the posts in the other page.
jp
Enthusiast
That's the same way they do it on the Yamaha 4 stroke snowmobiles, works perfect, absolutely no lag at all.
Miles B
Enthusiast
Turbos work off airflow. Hotter inlet air is just higher pressure and more energetic. You will most likely get less power than a conventional turbo, but lag would probably not be too much worse. Oiling isn't that hard to fix.
Not a very elegant solution, but cheap and easy, and the size of the V10 will overcome most of the problems.
SilverBlueGTS
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2004
- Posts
- 62
- Reaction score
- 0
STS has a patent on the rear mounted turbo design - the patent number is on their website. TNT may have some legal issues by using a similar design.
Miles B
Enthusiast
How the hell do you patent using a turbocharger how it was intended, just a little further downstream?
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
I agree with this and have been wondering this as well. How do you patent the placement of a turbo?
Not sure it will hold up in court, I think it is a bunch of shi#
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
[quote
But, with the turbo out back, the intercooler can be placed between the back and front, so minimal heat is up front. At least that was my pondering. It certainly is a different approach, and it puts the heat toward the back of the car, rather than by your feet.
[/QUOTE]
You may want to go back and ponder some more.
But, with the turbo out back, the intercooler can be placed between the back and front, so minimal heat is up front. At least that was my pondering. It certainly is a different approach, and it puts the heat toward the back of the car, rather than by your feet.
[/QUOTE]
You may want to go back and ponder some more.
ChicagoGTS
Enthusiast
I was waiting for this thread to start, saw it on the alley being debated. As far as the patent goes, you can apply them to anything that already exists. All's it has to be is an alteration to fit the viper and walla you have a patentable product. The USPTO has strict limitations on how abstract an idea can be, they have to be unique and detailed. So if there was an alteration they made specific for the viper since it didn't come with a turbo they can patent whatever parts they fabricate and call it a system. To say they patented the the "rear mounted turbo system" is pretty far-fetched, but as soon as you patent one portion of it then you get to include that word "patented" with your product. Take Tooofast's No2 bracket, he can if he want's apply for a patent. Then he could advertise it as Toofast's Patented Nitrous system, it's misleading but it's partially true the word patented is a pretty strong word to use when it comes to ideas. If you read the patent there's alot of unique alteration's they describe to mount their system that's unique to there setup. The patent is infact pretty detailed but getting around alot of this would be IMHO pretty simple the hard part would be convincing the USPTO, it's called reverse engineering Microsoft does it every day as well as the rest of the world it's not rocket science. Here's the actual patent:
Patent - 6,745,568
~Matt~
Patent - 6,745,568
~Matt~
PRVT JET
Viper Owner
matt, how do you do know so much about tooofst nos brackets? are trying to say you have something new we don't know about?
ChicagoGTS
Enthusiast
Let's just say I'm doing research, To be continued...
PhoenixGTS
Enthusiast
The placement of the turbo remotely is such an obvious extension to those who practice the art that I predict that that part of the patent would never hold up to litigation challenge, however using an auxiliary pump to return the post-turbo oil seems like a novel enough idea for a system that it might have some strength (unless a similar system is used in come sort of industrial application we don't know about).
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
Is that one of those fart cans on the back of that or is that one of those cans of whoop *** ?
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
I think a lot of laughs have been had at TNT's expense over this, and their marketing hype is certainly premature as nobody knows how it performs yet....
having said that - I hate to see people innovating then made fun of. We risk making ourselves a jacka$$ to rubbish something before it is actually tested - and why make fun of people trying to do something different anyway. Is there some virtue in doing that?
The TNT car will speak for itself and I'm happy to wait till then before making a final judgement on it.
having said that - I hate to see people innovating then made fun of. We risk making ourselves a jacka$$ to rubbish something before it is actually tested - and why make fun of people trying to do something different anyway. Is there some virtue in doing that?
The TNT car will speak for itself and I'm happy to wait till then before making a final judgement on it.
Mike 99ACR
Enthusiast
I actually think its cool as hell and wish them only success. I think your the only ******* that you can't take a little humor. Lighten up old man.
ChicagoGTS
Enthusiast
Well said torque, I wonder what was said when they were trying to S/C the first viper. Better yet I'd be interested to see the threads, if they go back that far. Just when you think you've seen it all is usually when something innovative happens!
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. ~Albert Einstein~
~Matt~
Russ is 100% right on this. The car will have MUCH more lag than if the same turbo was placed closer to the exhaust ports on the heads.
As far as oil return lines using a pump, I believe the LPE TT Vettes use a pump to return the oil as they sit lower than the oil pan.
As far as oil return lines using a pump, I believe the LPE TT Vettes use a pump to return the oil as they sit lower than the oil pan.
ChicagoGTS
Enthusiast
Ah, but that's where the plot thickens, you are not flowing exhaust from a 4 ****** or even a 6 you got 10 cylinders kicking out some pretty high pressure through the same diameter tubing those ricers do (no offense). There may be lag but I don't think it's going to be signifigant. Your spool time will be pretty quick IMHO.
~Matt~
No offense taken, most people don't consider a 950+ HP Supra rice, and I hate the typical Honda ricers as much or more than most domestic owners. Heck when I had my Z28 daily driver with a flowmaster and no cats I would rev on every single ricer I encountered. They were always afraid of the car
As far as the turbo, yes it "could" (this all depends on the turbo size of course) have less lag than a 4 ****** or 6 ******. My point is that given the same turbo and same engine you'll have far more lag placing the turbo ~10 feet downstream of the exhaust ports of the head (which also means 10+ feet of piping from the turbo to the intake to make matters worse) than if you have the turbo 12 to 18 inches off the head as is "customary".
Basically this is not the most efficient way to do the turbo setup.
As far as the turbo, yes it "could" (this all depends on the turbo size of course) have less lag than a 4 ****** or 6 ******. My point is that given the same turbo and same engine you'll have far more lag placing the turbo ~10 feet downstream of the exhaust ports of the head (which also means 10+ feet of piping from the turbo to the intake to make matters worse) than if you have the turbo 12 to 18 inches off the head as is "customary".
Basically this is not the most efficient way to do the turbo setup.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
LOL - I wasn't referring to your post Mike - which WAS good humor. If you read some of the posts here in light of the many over at the other site - you'll appreciate how much rubbishing has been going on about something that hasn't even been released yet... it reminds me of all the bashing that went on against Underground Racing when they first announced they were launching their first supercharged Viper.... It was supposed to go slow or blow up - but then it actually arrived - went out and ran 9 second passes, hung with the very best cars - and never blew up then or since (last I heard anyway)....
The hype is premature, but the results will speak for themselves is all I'm saying....
