To LPE or not to LPE??

[Venom 1000TT]

Someone please try and talk me out of going to Lingenfelter for his 540 CID package!! I am dead serious about doing it!! I have yet to find any bad mouthing about him and I think his name and reputation precede him. I take my car to the drags maybe 5 times a year and road race maybe 4 times a year. The rest is on the street. He seems to have the most available ponies for a naturally aspirated engine. Price is a little salty but if he delivers like he guarantees it's worth it to me. I felt the 10's wih my NOS and I liked it!! Would like to have that available all the time. Any ideas or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SlowCreamPuff]

Jamie,

Sorry, I can't help.

I highly recommend LPE.

I have one of his stage II TT C5 and it's great. One of these days, I will probably have to get the 540 done on my slow cream puff.

LPE does truly great work. Stands behind their products. Custom service is beyond expectations at times as well.

BTW, the dyno numbers of the 540 is w/ stock catalytic converters!!

 

[King GTS]

I say GO FOR IT!! Why not?! You only live once - then you're gone! Coupled w/ the fact that the 03's displacement has been increased

!! I know I am. All that speed & power - whenever you want it.

 

[MtHam ACR]

I was going throught some old Car and Drivers tonight and actually ran across the Ligenfelder review on P98 of the Jan01 issue. Pretty good write up.

C&D's position was the 725HP/542ci package was faster than ANY OTHER Viper package they ever tested (TNT and Hennessey). Even though the others claimed higher HP, Ligenfelder's delivered the best performance:

0-60 3.3
0-100 6.6
0-130 10.5
0-160 16.7
1/4 mi - 11.0 @ 134

Pretty dam* impressive.

Another point they made was the car didn't seem as fast as it actually was, for example, there wasn't a lot of big induced wheel spin -- they were impressed by who well it hooked up.

I was partial to the fact they used an ACR ;-)

Eric

 

[Martin D]

Jamie,

If you got the cash, GO FOR IT.

I have spoken to George Bryce about his car(the one in the C&D article) It is a monster. And, LPE has a great rep.

On the other hand, there is about to be another NA option that will get you @ 620/620 at the tires WITHOUT stroking at less expense..

Regards,

 

[Chuck B 98 GTS]

With the reputation and performance LPE has to offer GO FOR IT!
If NA is your goal than he would be the man.
I would also explore your options for a DLM Supercharger. For the same price I've had two and a half years of 850 hp outstanding performance full time. Or for half the cost a 700+ SC hp.

DLM or LPE would be on the top of my "To do" list. I can't talk you out of this one, you only live once.

Chuck

 

[MaxedGTS]

I agree with Dan.
LPE has an A+ reputation. But I've had almost every option offered to the Viper community. The stroker was too obnoxious for my wife ... LOUD. Sometimes it was more like a chore to drive, I preferred to take the Benz to dinner.
There's a reason you see everybody jumping on the supercharger wagon. More power, better street ability.

Max M.

 

[TomMiriViper]

Hmmm... A BTR nitrous kit and a DLM Supercharger.
Sounds like a plan to me

!

Tom

 

[FastMatt]

Why stop there?

LPE 540cid, DLM blown, BTR 250hp shot!, Now your talking about a bad *** Viper!!! lolol

 

[jimandela]

Request the lpe catalog, very very nice stuff in it,
not all viper. i found i can upgrade my Navigator for $4k

I wish i could afford the lpe 540; i guess that i had better start putting in OT again

jim

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

LPE in my book is #1 You'll pay more but the quality is the best. Go for it!

 

[blkasp1]

Go to a car show... Open the hood on a stroker motor. It still looks pretty much like a stock engine. Now open the hood on a DLM blower motor, It's a work of art! You'll get more power from a blower motor. A 488 cu. inch blower motor will think it's a 640 cu. inch engine!

Don't get me wrong, stroker motors are cool. But you have to be going fast to prove your point.

Check-out DLM also,
Ross

 

[Venom 1000TT]

I appreciate all your replies and they make good sense.. well most of them.

However; I have a Grand National and you constantly have to watch your boost levels, O2 readings, Knock sensors, etc which is annoying! Isn't it the same with a supercharger? When you're on the line do you have to get your boost up before launching to get max performance while watching the guy aside of you take off before you? That's how it is with the turbo Grand National. I'd rather get my rpms up and take off without worrying about boost with a N/A. Also what about belts and intercooling etc.More maintenance? How hard is that on the engine? These are reasons I shyed away from supercharging. Can you get 725 hp for the same or less from supercharging? Can you use street gas? What about detonation? Someone please enlighten me and I don't mean to knock supercharging.It's just not for me. As far as loudness goes I took off the mufflers and cats and it's still quiet to me so that's not really an issue. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Chuck B 98 GTS]

Jamie,
I've had my DLM SC car for two and a half years. There's been virtually NO maintenance other than oil changes, keeping the belt tight and keeping the air filter clean. You don't have to raise the boost off the line, just the rpm's as you would a NA car. The supercharger makes plenty of boost off the line without any lag. It's not the same comparing a six cylinder turbo engine to a ten cylinder supercharged engine. The supercharger is very subtle on the engine and drive train parts. You can make 725 hp at the rear wheels! My car is close to that and that's without an intercooler. Doug has an intercooler system available. I personally would like to upgrade to one. I would guess I could be around 800 rwhp!!

Chuck

 

[THEMASH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Lpe granted has a great rep, but consider WHAT he is charging.Any good high performance machine shop can do a Viper for tens of thousands less.This is not an exotic 5 valve per cyl engine.0n a 38000 engine package Lpe has approx 16000.00 in parts.(I know because i used the same parts in my engine.)I am sorry but no matter how good a rep a tuner has there is NO WAY i am paying 22000.00 for simple machine work AND labor that can be done for approx 5000.00.Give me a call (732)462-0106 and i will tell you how much i paid for each aftermarket part in my engine
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was waiting for you to reply "1BADGTS". I was going to go that same route Jamie, give "1BADGTS" a call, he can help out a lot.

 

[Venom 1000TT]

Yes I was waiting for the reply too. In fact I got a quote from his man in NJ and was a alot disappointed. He guaranteed no numbers on his quote and only " spoke " of maybe 650-670 HP. He gave no guarantees whatsoever. And besides that, his price was only about 5K cheaper.I thought it should have been around 25K and it was almost 33K. If I ever resold my car I'm sure the name Lingenfelter would bring a whole lot more than someone from NJ. That has to be worth something also. By the way I'm not knocking NJ. Also if you have the " same " parts as the package I'm getting then that means you have 725 HP correct?
The Lingenfelter name, reputation, 2 year warranty, and like everyone said here, service.. is worth it to me. Lingenfelter has worked on many types of vehicles and I still have not heard one badmouth against him. Look how long he's been in business.

 

[WCKDVPR]

The only sad thing is LPE won't touch a CA registered car.

 

[Afy]

Definetely LPE..

 

[Venom 1000TT]

Yes I agree. For a few more thousand I can buy a new Z06 but it's not a Viper.. will never look like one. I can also strap a rocket engine on a broom stick too and be faster but do I really want that?

 

[Jay Herbert]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sheyster:
Good discussion here guys!

I want to suggest to anyone with an SC installed that if you go to the track (dragstrip) a lot you owe it to yourself to try it with a small shot of NOS/propane. Even a 50-75 hp shot is enough to make a big difference. The SC raises the intake air temp a lot and even a small shot of NOS/propane will bring the temp down considerably. The most I would personally run is a 100 shot with an SC setup.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least two of the available supercharger setups use an intercooler (one with an ATI SC unit) which keeps the charge temp near "normal" ....

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sheyster:
Jay,

I've heard that even with the intercooler, SC intake air temps on a Viper are about 30 degrees higher than NA intake air temp. Can anyone confirm this (Levin, Cragin, Heffner) ?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sheyster -
The discharge temperatures exiting the aftercooler entering the engine depends on the adiabatic efficiency of the blower, the amount of boost, tubing bends, amount of CFM flow via bypass omitting compressor surge and heat soak, rear or straight compressor discharge etc...

Twenty-five to thirty degrees discharge temps sounds about right for an IC supercharged engine.

Best Regards,
Doug

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sheyster:
Doug,

Thanks for clarifying that! Just curious but has anyone ever had you supercharge an LPE 542 ci Viper or even asked about it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your very welcome Sheyster!

At the present time "NO." Many of our customers that proceed onto supercharging from other "tuner packages" seem to be those ready to move-on from those packages or nitrous. NOT THAT ANYTHING WAS WRONG with these packages in the first place, a blower car is just a whole different animal. I haven't run across any LPE masterpieces as of yet. I would account that due to their rarity and astonishing caliber.

Regards,
Doug

 

[SlowCreamPuff]

Remember, the LPE 540 package makes 630hp on the chassis dyno through the stock catalytic converters!

The power band is also nice and wide.

It would definitely be my choice...

 

[treynor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Remember, the LPE 540 package makes 630hp on the chassis dyno through the stock catalytic converters
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the other hand, the one DLM stage I+ package on which I've seen dyno report made 617 RWHP on the chassis dyno through stock headers, cats, and exhaust system. Talk about a sleeper!

 

[SlowCreamPuff]

Can someone confirm? I didn't know final drive ratio affects dyno numbers...

Trap speed is good indicator but it's driver dependent. Also, the weather, etc...

 

[treynor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Agreed! The ultimate would be an LPE 542 motor running behind an intercooled DLM setup with a conservative amount of boost (not more than 8#). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm failing to understand why that setup would be preferable to, say, a 488 ci DLM intercooled stage III running, say, 15 PSI of boost? They'd both make comparable power, but the stock-displacement car would be less expensive, idle better, smog better, and be far more resistant to detonation...

 

[Gerald]

1Bad,

Have you ever tried to sell a supercharged Viper? I have, You get 100% of your money back and MORE. That's why I supercharge mine...Buyers Love Turbos or Superchargers...

Regards,
Gerald

 

[SlowCreamPuff]

I agree with 1bad gts on the resell issue.
If you can get 1/3 to 1/2 of what's put into it, you are lucky. The name of the tuner matters a little, but not much at all. Unless you find a rare buyer.

Sad but true.

 

[Gerald]

Gerald i have to DISAGREE .If i go to Levin or Hennessey and spend 30,000-50,000 on a high end blower or turbo kit you really think i will recoup that kind of money in the end when i sell. (Didnt a HMS twin turbo just sell for a few thousand over what a stock car is going for)I got killed on my Carroll Supercharged Vette.Common sense dictates if something new is 30,000.00 and i am buying it used (in God knows what condition)it is not worth anywhere near the 30,000.00 .The one third number i got came directly from Fitzgerald Motersports who is one of the largest Viper Dealers out there.Fitzgerald CLAIMS with ANY TUNER CAR you are lucky to het one third of what you put in so in the above case the owner takes a 20,000.00 hit.

 

[SlowCreamPuff]

LPE's warranty is the bottom line, every case is different.
If you are a good customer, you will be treated right.
I don't want to give examples and create unreal expectations, but there are reasons that LPE has a good reputation.

Now, I believe a 540TT Viper would be great.