Tom Welch's GTS Viper ?????????-

[Dr Roof]

Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

It has been debated several times but I have been ask to publically ask you myself concerning your Mods at the recent V-10 Nationals

1. Did you use a dual stage Nitrous system? Please explain your answer.

2. you stated that we told you to move to unlimited and we would give you and Lee saunders the trophies for Mod 2 class. This is not true! In fact it is a lie! I would never give up trophies unless they are earned.

The only coversation was that unlimited would be a closer fit for you to run in. You still chose not too And I personally lost to you which I gave my best effort to date.

So the only real issue is for you to come completely clean with your set-up. Many people have sent emails as well as phone calls asking why I didn't question your dual stage system. Well I always play fair and abide by the rules and I will always want to run cars faster so I have the shot at beating them. I look forward to my next meeting of you at the track so I can win.

But Never did I tell you that you can have the Trophies!!!

ANd If I Needed or wanted a Nitrous car I would for sure go with a car that is proven to run with the big Boys. RSI or TNT or JH will race the fastest of the fast and not just the fast. If I want the fastest car I look for a tuner that wins in the unlimited Class.

 

[RedGTS]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

David, I don't really know you (other than running into you at the go-kart place in BG that Friday night looking for the car show that never happened), but you're making yourself look bad, which is a shame given your hard work in bringing a lot of Viper folks together. You well know Tom's answer to the two-stage issue as it was beaten to death in an earlier thread over a month ago that you participated in. You can go back and read it here if you like:

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=270761&page=26&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

In short, Tom flatly denied using two stages, so unless you've got evidence he is lying, this looks redundant and petty.

Also, in the earlier thread, you said:

It is important that we learn and have a Clear set of Rules. I apologize that there were changes made during the process of planning the event.

and

The Rules were MOD 2 one power adder only! This should have been more defined so there was no confusion! I really don't know how to Draw the line: Dual stage is 2 power adders, but also some people think Intercoolers are 2 power adders. I really don't know. I think a great idea next would be class breakdowns according to times?

Now you're trying to say "the rules clearly stated no dual stage system." So what did the rules say? Apparently they said one power adder, and whether two stages of nitrous are one or two power adders could be debated (and has been) ad nauseum. And Tom has denied using two stages anyway.

Finally, Tom mentioned the offer of the Mod 2 trophies if he would move to Unlimited in the earlier thread, and you posted back and forth with Tom in that thread and said nothing about it. If it is a lie now, it was lie then, wasn't it? Why would you ignore it then and wait until now to mention it?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but having read the earlier thread it's clear something doesn't add up.

 

[Tom Welch]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

David,

Feel free to bring your Viper down here and see for yourself that we are running a single shot of nitrous!

For those who did not read the thread about this subject over a month ago, we offer a two stage nitrous system which delivers about 300 hp (150hp each shot)for traction challenged cars on stock type tires.

By simply wiring the four soleniods together a single stage sytem that generates the same power (300 in my case) is operational. With the proper tires and suspension this type system can be used and is common. This latter set up is how my Viper is currently wired and was that way at the race. Two stage or single stage would not matter though as the power output is the same......Understand?? (Please keep something in mind that I feel is very important..everything that I offer on my website has been tested on my own Viper first, not the Vipers of customers. My nitrous systems started out as a simple dry kit, grew into a propane kit, then a NGP kit, then a two stage, and now its current state. I am constantly testing and improving products, not just nitrous kits but heads, cams, roll bars....you get the gist)

As for the trophies comment, I suggest you speak with Prashant. He stood right there among several folks and made that statement to myself and the Saunders( the Saunders are not into internet conversation but they can be contacted by phone should anyone wish to verify).

In any event, we both refused to take the trophies and move into the unlimited class for several reasons.

1. This was not fair to the mod 2 racers

2. Our cars are mod 2 cars in the purest defenition of the term.

3. We offered to combine mod 2 and unlimited when 4 cars were remaining.

This sounds to me like a simple case of sore looser. You should be happy, David, I pulled you down the track to your best time ever, and If I remember correctly, I came and gave you a handshake afterwards.

What strikes me as strange is that NONE of the ROE and or ROE/Macedo Vipers were using INTERCOOLERS. Your car has an intercooler, doesn't it David? That makes more power than a Supercharger by itself. How many power adders is that??

In a nutshell, I have nothing to LIE about and our trailer was right there all weekend long with the Viper sitting right outside, hood always open. It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out a nitrous system. Whats funny though, is that Lee Saunders, a customer of mine, had the QUICKEST time of Mod 2 with a 9.89.(had to back out of round #1 because due to a mindfart). Why not heckle him?

Witch hunt all you want, but please finish what you started by seeing that event winners get their awards.

Tom

P.S. What about the street tire shootout? There were no rules for that race! I'm done with this thread.

BTW, Happy Fathers Day!!

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Lamest.... thread.... EVER!

I also have no dog in this fight, but it seems pretty obvious that NOS is one power adder. If it's not, is supercharger + intercooler two adders? A dual stage is just way to control the NOS. It's NO different than having a boost control in a supercharged motor.

But it's all moot since Tom said he was running one stage.

David, I agree with RedGTS, this just makes you look bad. Who really cares anyway? Why post it instead of handle it by email? If you want to ask Tom what he ran, why not just call him or email him?

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

IBdrama

 

[Snake Bitten]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Hey Brunton...I have two 10 lb bottles, that act as one 20 lb bottle, and am supplementing with gas...Is that one, two, or three power adders???




Stirring...the...***...

You must be registered for see images

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

********EDITED FOR AB************

Arguing is dumb!

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Gerbald,

You have 8 power adders.

4 HRE Rims
2 NOS Bottles
1 Shift light (which I still need to get you a hookup diagram on, I know)
1 driver.

Actually you have two hands, so Gerald I think you may have 9! You should immediately give back any trophies you may have won against other drivers (even if they also had 2 hands), and we're not going to pay you the winnings you were supposed to get.

Next time have the sense to lose!

LOL

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Rules are rules, at this event the rule was 2 stage N20 system was 2 power adders. No need to keep this going. If there was an issue, Tom's system should have been tested for dual stage at the event. This is a learning experence, so I'm sure the next event will have more concrete rules. Get off Roof's ass, he put on a great event. SW wanted to run his all motor car in the unlimited class but told he couldn't, JH made the trip and was put into unlimited when he was told he was going to run exhibition, sometimes the rules work and sometimes they don't. But if you keep screwing with all the promoters, we won't have any events.

 

[J DAWG]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Gerbald,

You have 8 power adders.

Not ot mention the dozens of poser adders .

No need for you to even consider entering a race. You would have to run a 3 second 1/4.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Rules are rules, at this event the rule was 2 stage N20 system was 2 power adders. No need to keep this going. If there was an issue, Tom's system should have been tested for dual stage at the event. This is a learning experence, so I'm sure the next event will have more concrete rules. Get off Roof's ass, he put on a great event. SW wanted to run his all motor car in the unlimited class but told he couldn't, JH made the trip and was put into unlimited when he was told he was going to run exhibition, sometimes the rules work and sometimes they don't. But if you keep screwing with all the promoters, we won't have any events.

And Tom said he ran a single stage of N2O. What's your point? Nobody can go back in time and test it. If there was a question, it should have been addressed at the event. For the promoter of the event (also happened to be the 2nd place finisher to Tom, it appears), to question the winner on the public board is tacky however you look at it. Tom already said he had a single stage - so what will be accomplished? NOTHING other than the losers trying to discredit Tom.

If Roof or TFST or whoever has a beef, then the buck stops with the person who organized the event, because if there were unanswered questions, the organizer should have had more strict rules and/or testing for compliance if someone was thought to be outside the rules. What's the point of dragging it through the mud other than to discredit Tom's performance.

Tom won. Deal with it. That goes for everyone.

 

[Gerald]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Is a cam a power adder? Ported heads a power adder? This could get so deep? I think Toms car has a cam, Davids does not.Davids has a intercooler, Toms does not, etc etc. Sooo many grey areas..
If an intercooler is a power adder, then a bottle heater for NOS is one also.. Boy, again, sooo many grey areas..
Gerald

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

An intercooler being called a power adder is the most gayest [******] I think I have ever heard

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

For that matter, a dual stage NOS set up being called 2 power adders is freakin ******** also

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

You must be registered for see images

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

hey Blown,

The above "retard" statment about the special olympics was in bad taste. I have people in my family with Down Syndrome that work the special olympics with pride. They may be slower than some people but your comment was the "********" one. Man that really ****** me off.

 

[Snake Bitten]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

And the whole *** thing is offensive...Mike Brunton is ***, and he is still my friend...I am offended that he is ***, but nevertheless, I respect his right to be ***...and he keeps the required 500 mile distance, so as not to set off my gaydar...and so I don't get *** cooties...

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

And the whole *** thing is offensive...Mike Brunton is ***, and he is still my friend...I am offended that he is ***, but nevertheless, I respect his right to be ***...and he keeps a the required 500 mile distance, so as not to set off my gaydar...and so I don't get *** cooties...

bwahahahahaa

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

hey Blown,

The above "retard" statment about the special olympics was in bad taste. I have people in my family with Down Syndrome that work the special olympics with pride. They may be slower than some people but your comment was the "********" one. Man that really ****** me off.

I was making a comment how all this bickering is ********. I have nothing against "********" people but if you couldnt see through it,its not my problem. This is the internet...get over it...if it pissed you off, I suggest you seek help because Im sure there are more offensive things in the world. I will delete it so maybe your ******* will come out of the bunch that they have been put in

 

[Gerald]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

And the whole *** thing is offensive...Mike Brunton is ***, and he is still my friend...I am offended that he is ***, but nevertheless, I respect his right to be ***...and he keeps the required 500 mile distance, so as not to set off my gaydar...and so I don't get *** cooties...

Classic!! LOL!!

 

[Eddie N]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

i think this beef is stemming from the other thread where tom was whining about not receiving his street tire award yet..

no offense to dr roof, but you cant expect a national event put together by a guy who doesnt do it on a regular basis to go off with out a hitch.. if you want to [******], start your own event..

no one else stepped up to the plate to organize such an event except roof, and if people are going to whine and cry about the promptness of receiving their awards afterwards to an event that roof LOST MONEY on, where is the motivation to hold more events?

no offense to anyone, just an unbiased observation...

Eddie

 

[TFAST4U]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

BlownViper,

Dude what's up with you.

" a dual stage NOS set up being called 2 power adders is freakin ******** "

My question to you is. Does a second stage of NOS make more power? Hello.......yes it does. That's why it is a second power adder. Notice the second stage refers to 2, not 1 .

Here is another blunder of yours.

Quote: " An intercooler being called a power adder is the most gayest [******] I think I have ever heard "

Did your *** friends tell you that? Do you think someone adds an intercooler to there car for ballast, or more power? I would consider this a second power adder. I would hope you would say the same. But than again we are dealing with a a guy that has access to 4 *** celebrities photos.

-----------------------------------------------------------

On another note I hope we do the next event with a dial in time with a .20 give in. If not, than ask your self this question.
If you had a 9.71 Viper and could run with 10 sec. 11 sec. and 12 sec. Vipers in Mod 2 would you? Of course you would!

I still give the props to RSI for an all motor car in the unlimited Class. This Viper ran a 10.02 ALL MOTOR. Driving had alot to do with the run as well. Think about it. Now that rocks!

 

[BlownViper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

BlownViper,

Dude what's up with you.

" a dual stage NOS set up being called 2 power adders is freakin ******** "

My question to you is. Does a second stage of NOS make more power? Hello.......yes it does. That's why it is a second power adder. Notice the second stage refers to 2, not 1 .

Here is another blunder of yours.

Quote: " An intercooler being called a power adder is the most gayest [******] I think I have ever heard "

Did your *** friends tell you that? Do you think someone adds an intercooler to there car for ballast, or more power? I would consider this a second power adder. I would hope you would say the same. But than again we are dealing with a a guy that has access to 4 *** celebrities photos.

Her is a blunder of yours... How many real races have you been too/entered? Probobly none. If you enter your car in a "single power adder class", you can run 50 stages of nitrous if you want....Does a TWIN TURBO car mean it cant run a "single power adder class"? NO. A "single power adder" is just that..1 form of adding power. I know exactly what an intercooler does/is,thanks...I have a very big one on my GT. When you enter a 2 power adder class, its just that...2 power adders.. whether it be a supercharged car with nitrous or a turbo car with nitrous. So according to you and your reasoning...My intercooled,supercharged GT isnt able to run single power adder classes? give me a freakin break..Learn some of the real rules from sanctioned events before you go popping off about somethiong know nothing about

 

[RedGTS]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

My question to you is. Does a second stage of NOS make more power? Hello.......yes it does

In Tom's case no it doesn't. He has explained several times that his two-stage system (which he didn't use at BG) makes exactly the same power as the single stage one. The difference is it comes on in two stages rather than all at once, which can help with traction issues.

 

[Cudaman]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

The original problem and questions prior to drag racing starting with the track officals was: Tom races Unlimited.... 1 year prior at VOI 7 with his same car at same track he ran Unlimited. NO other Unlimited race team RSI,TNT,JH tried to race 1 year later with same setup or possibly faster setup in a lower class. Any racer can take their car and run in a lower class and will cleanup. The true test is to stay "King of the hill" in your class. Every time I have seen Unlimited run it is very competitive because everyone is playing on the same level and not stacking the deck in their favor.

Tom

offered to run the winner of the unlimited class, as you well know.

I guess my only question is and was WHY did Tom not run in Unlimited?

Respectful of ALL who made comments on this thread!

Cudaman

 

[Tom Welch]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Ward,

Thanks for the respectful post. I have no problem with it and I appreciate your comments. I went to the archives of this site (as its been a while since VOI7) and am copying the entry requirements for the classes.

It is easy to see that at VOI mod 2 was reduced to cars running no faster than 10.50. This would have precluded both YOU and I.

Unlimited class, which is the fastest class, contains cars with exotic modifications like stroker engines and multiple power adders. I don't feel that my heads/cam/nitrous Viper belongs in that class any more than you would feel that your heads/cam/supercharger Viper does.

I did not set the rules at either of these events, instead I followed them, and expect to be classed accordingly. I suggest at future events, the classes are possibly slated differently. I take racing seriously, even if it is just for fun. The "street tire shootout" at the BG race was open to anyone, and we won it even though we were not the quickest.

I hope that you can finally agree with me on my sentiments about this topic.



Wednesday, September 25, 2002

Beech Bend Raceway Park
Bowling Green, Kentucky (60 Miles North of Nashville, TN)
Gates open 9am. 9:30am Driver Meeting. Track Hot 10am to 4pm.

Organized and presented by the Viper Club of America. Sponsored by the Dodge Division of Daimler Chrysler Corporation.

Limited to 125 Participants (Must also be paid entrants to VOI.7 in Nashville.)

Entry Fee: FREE to Viper Club of America members. *
$100 for non-member Viper owners. * Your entry fee includes VCA membership from September 25, 2002 through December 31, 2003.
* +$50 Reservation Fee for all, refunded to participants shortly following VOI.

Classes: Stock: Bone stock, street radial tires, with only allowed mods being K&N filters and smooth tubes, or cone filters.
Modified I: Any “bolt on” mods (headers, exhaust, intake, roller rockers, custom air boxes, gear changes, computer boxes, etc.) with street radial tires. No headwork, cam changes or “power adders” (NOS, turbo, supercharger) allowed.
Modified II: Same as Mod I, with the addition of any “power adder” running no quicker than 10.50. Any tires can be used for this class.
Unlimited: “Run what ya brung”, but must have Viper V-10, T-56 6-speed trans, and independent rear suspension. Slicks and skinnies are recommended. No solid axle cars.
Bracket and
Exhibition: Must have at least a Viper Body or Viper Engine. No electronics allowed. Winged road-racing cars encouraged.

Special Low ET, High Trap Speed, Best Reaction Time, Best 60' Time, + others, + a
Awards: special collectible memento for ALL Participants.

Awards and trophy presentation to be held at VCA Night at VOI.7 in Nashville.

THIS EVENT WILL ALSO BE SUBSIDIZED BY MANY VENDORS AND TUNERS....... NAMES TBA AT A LATER DATE. Service parts (trans, pumpkins, half-shafts) and Tech assistance generally available on-site for mechanical problems. Please





To see the actual form, go to archives and enter a search for VOI 7. There is a post by Tony Estes regarding registration and this form is enclosed.

Thanks,

Tom

P.S. Sorry that I lied about not posting on this thread again. Lets all try to get along. I'm done.

 

[Cudaman]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

I agree Tom this dog has been beat to death. We all can move out of the past and learn from it and live for today and tomorrow. Hopefully we all will make wiser choices in the future!

Cudaman


P.S. It was a very GOOD event!!!!

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Tom, your cars are fast enough to run in the unlimited class. I have run my slow RT in unlimited for years with a stock bottom end. I seriously think you would have had a great chance at BG. There were 4 unlimited cars, with the 2 of yours there, it may have really changed things up. Almost all unlimited races I have seen there has been red lights, cars breaking, gears missed etc. Strange things happen in unlimited. Hope to see you there.

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Dr. Roof you posted this same thread last night and I posted a link to the thread where Tom already answered this question.

What happened to that thread???????/

It was your race to run and it should have been addressed at the race.

 

[ronviper]

Re: Tom Welch\'s GTS Viper ?????????-

Dr. ROOF you surprise me, if you had a problem with Tom why the H$LL didn't you address it at the meet. What you have done is open a can of worms, ALL I SEE IS GUYS WITH DLM CARS CRYING ALL THE TIME. Doug deserves better he gives you cars that perform and all we hear is excuses why you lost and all the shilt about DYNO NUMBERS. Wake up, your are a sore loser you should apologize and make your car do the talking!
Tom you won and should get the prize promised period.