Maverick The Electrician
Enthusiast
How much do you want to put down, good credit? There are a bunch of factors.
Total cost of owning the car
- Thread starter Maverick The Electrician
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Jason-Middle Tennessee
Enthusiast
What about the taxes (Luxury)?
Janni
Enthusiast
Todd,
Here I go with the adult and unpopular answer.... Save your money. The more money you can save earlier in your career the more that gets to take advantage of the magic of compounding. Long term investing starting now will make a HUGE difference in the rest of your life. Also, IMO you probably don't want to be getting a car that costs that much before you own a house. In your house you can have a garage, take advantage of using a home equity loan for your car if you can't wait to save enough to pay cash for it (I know - we're not too good at the delayed gratification thing either
Sounds like a real drag, doesn't it? Well, I would hate for anyone to get in over their heads with a car payment. Things happen - medical things, emergency things, LIFE happens - you don't want to tie yourself down to a big piece of depreciating steel and SMC. Its depressing. It would be like being all dressed up and nowhere to go. If you spend al of you rdosposable income on a car, you won't be able to go to ViperDays, go to driving school and then do all the modifications (or even maintenance) to the car that I know you'll want to.
Don't get me wrong. The car is awesome, but its still just a car - don't let it get to the point where it makes decisions for you.
Janni - Kiljoy (sorry...)
Here I go with the adult and unpopular answer.... Save your money. The more money you can save earlier in your career the more that gets to take advantage of the magic of compounding. Long term investing starting now will make a HUGE difference in the rest of your life. Also, IMO you probably don't want to be getting a car that costs that much before you own a house. In your house you can have a garage, take advantage of using a home equity loan for your car if you can't wait to save enough to pay cash for it (I know - we're not too good at the delayed gratification thing either
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), and then even things like insurance are cheaper when you have multiple policies with a company.Sounds like a real drag, doesn't it? Well, I would hate for anyone to get in over their heads with a car payment. Things happen - medical things, emergency things, LIFE happens - you don't want to tie yourself down to a big piece of depreciating steel and SMC. Its depressing. It would be like being all dressed up and nowhere to go. If you spend al of you rdosposable income on a car, you won't be able to go to ViperDays, go to driving school and then do all the modifications (or even maintenance) to the car that I know you'll want to.
Don't get me wrong. The car is awesome, but its still just a car - don't let it get to the point where it makes decisions for you.
Janni - Kiljoy (sorry...)
Kurt 97 GTS
Enthusiast
Hate to admit this, but I agree with everything that has been said--even with Janni. Owning a Viper is wonderful, but not inexpensive!! You mentioned that you would be in an apartment, make sure you have a coverd garage for your pet snake!! If you have to wait, it makes it even more wonderful when you finally get the car. Good luck in your decision.
Maverick The Electrician
Enthusiast
30-40 dollars an oil change? I need to go where you take yours. I havent found a place for less than a hundred.
phiebert
Enthusiast
I agree with Janni but with a caveat...any one of us could die tomorrow! So building financial security isn't everything, it's certainly something, but in the end enjoy life, seize the day and if you can find a comfortable way to afford the car...enjoy it!
Sorry, just my opinion but I have too many friends that have enough money for one lifetime and spend all their time trying to get more...while some of us try to find ways to enjoy the money we struggled to earn!
Sorry, just my opinion but I have too many friends that have enough money for one lifetime and spend all their time trying to get more...while some of us try to find ways to enjoy the money we struggled to earn!
Jason-Middle Tennessee
Enthusiast
The way I look at it and this may be bad, but if I had the money to buy the snake buy it, because your not going to be able to carry the money with you if you die....
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
mayo_pasco
Viper Owner
I just bought a '96 RT/10 after some years of wanting one badly and I have the same setup as you have with apartment and no family to support (that might change with the snake though...).
This is a dream that has finally come through and of course you can say: "save the money for later" but later means you will be older. I advice you to go for it.
Think of it this way: A low income employee also have a car, in percentage calculate how much of his/her income is needed to get a new or a few years old "normal" car which I have seen most of the people here in the states drive in. In reality you will pay more but percentage wise probably as much as anyone else with a lower income.
Life is too short to put on hold and if you go with the snake you will get to the end with more quality time and quantity time (the car is fast).
Also you have to realize that your new job is not the end of the job circus. You will (hopefully) excel and get more on the pay check before you retire.
This is a dream that has finally come through and of course you can say: "save the money for later" but later means you will be older. I advice you to go for it.
Think of it this way: A low income employee also have a car, in percentage calculate how much of his/her income is needed to get a new or a few years old "normal" car which I have seen most of the people here in the states drive in. In reality you will pay more but percentage wise probably as much as anyone else with a lower income.
Life is too short to put on hold and if you go with the snake you will get to the end with more quality time and quantity time (the car is fast).
Also you have to realize that your new job is not the end of the job circus. You will (hopefully) excel and get more on the pay check before you retire.
mayo_pasco
Viper Owner
here is my spending money on a black beauty in front of my apartment window:
I pay 930 USD/month after a down payment of 4500 (10% of the value of the car) through my credit union.
the insurance for me, at age 28, is 1200 USD a year which is very surprising to me being single with, at this time, only the Viper to drive in. I do get a good discount through my company with additional discounts for internal Defense Driving classes.
As far as other costs, refer to earlier posts.
You have to add on money for car wash/wax products and most likely some extra for letting someone keep an eye on your precious snake when you park it somewhere which is a major drag, after all it is a car.
Also what I have realized if going out in the evening you have to make a decision, which is easier though with a GTS: Top on or off in case of bad weather.
I pay 930 USD/month after a down payment of 4500 (10% of the value of the car) through my credit union.
the insurance for me, at age 28, is 1200 USD a year which is very surprising to me being single with, at this time, only the Viper to drive in. I do get a good discount through my company with additional discounts for internal Defense Driving classes.
As far as other costs, refer to earlier posts.
You have to add on money for car wash/wax products and most likely some extra for letting someone keep an eye on your precious snake when you park it somewhere which is a major drag, after all it is a car.
Also what I have realized if going out in the evening you have to make a decision, which is easier though with a GTS: Top on or off in case of bad weather.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
At 75K/yr and no family you can definitly afford a Viper. But leaving it out day after day in that baking Florida sun would kill me. I'm in FL also.
Jason-Middle Tennessee
Enthusiast
TB the 2001 did not change any if very little from the 99's to 2000's. Someone else back me up here? If you want to see pictures check out my two web pages listed in my Sign and my Profile.
Jason
Jason
mayo_pasco
Viper Owner
bven: Where can I find this window system you mention?
I agree with the "slow down" comments already given, but since you want to "go for it", how about choosing a Viper that will not depreciate rapidly. I suggest looking for a nice 1994 red or black sidepipe car with A.C. as these cars have been selling for the same price for the past 3 years. Stay in the teens on mileage, and you should find a car in the low $40's. Add a window system that can be locked,i.e. the Northwind Engineering window, get a good quality car cover, and go for it!
[/QUOTE]
I agree with the "slow down" comments already given, but since you want to "go for it", how about choosing a Viper that will not depreciate rapidly. I suggest looking for a nice 1994 red or black sidepipe car with A.C. as these cars have been selling for the same price for the past 3 years. Stay in the teens on mileage, and you should find a car in the low $40's. Add a window system that can be locked,i.e. the Northwind Engineering window, get a good quality car cover, and go for it!
[/QUOTE]
Here is my take. I have owned my 1999 GTS right at 1 year. If I take what it cost me to get the car to my house, including all taxes, and subtract the approximate value of my car now and add all of my expenses (pmts., insurance, fuel, maintenance), I am out about $13,000. Add in the cheap performance mods I have made (oil pan, brake pads and fluid, cat-back, smooth tubes, K&N's) , the replacement flat spotted tires, and the misc. knobs, shifter, gas cap, and license plate frame and the number climbs to $16,500. I'm hoping that the second year of ownership will be less costly but half shafts, nitrous, and slicks look appealing. Good luck!
Steve Ueligger
Steve Ueligger
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
OK OK, as a Treynor I just *have* to weigh in here. The total cost of owning any depreciating asset (such as a Viper) is
Cost of upkeep (maintenance, insurance, operating costs)
+
Depreciation (loss of asset value)
+
Opportunity cost (what else could you have done with the money invested in the asset?)
+
Transaction costs.
For argument's sake, let's consider the '01 Viper I just ordered. Let's also pray my wife never reads this post...
Total cost for first year of ownership of the '01 Viper, assuming 6000 miles/yr, will be:
Upkeep:
$150 (two mobil 1 oil changes) +
$1038 (461 gals gas @ $2.25/gal) +
$1000 (insurance) +
$700 (4 half-worn tires @ $350 ea) =
>>$2,888<<
Depreciation:
I wrangled $3000 off MSRP for my new Viper, giving me a purchase price of $72,500 + tx/fees. A year later I can reasonably expect it to be saleable for $63,000, judging from the depreciation behavior of previous years' models. Thus, depreciation will cost >>$9,500<<
Opportunity cost:
Instead of paying the $81,000 my viper will cost me out the door, I could choose to invest this money in some low-risk asset. At current rates of return, I could expect to net 3.5% after tax (using, say, Muni STRIPs). That means that my net opportunity cost is >>$2,835<<
Transaction costs:
A number of fees and taxes come into play in the sale of a motor vehicle. The three major ones are sales tax (8.5%) of $5907, luxury tax of approx $1800, and license fee of approx $1000. Together these fees total >>$8,707<<
Sum these categories up, and my total cost of owning a viper for the first year is:
$23,930
which is pretty horrendous.
Fortunately, my second year is much less expensive:
Upkeep ($3888 incl reg renewal) +
Depreciation ($7500) +
Opportunity cost ($2940) +
Transaction costs ($0) =
$14,328
... and so on.
One note: if you finance the car, the picture changes a bit for the worse. Your opportunity cost goes down since you haven't invested as much money up front, but your upkeep costs rise sharply because of the interest you're paying on the loan. As an example, if you put $1,000 down and finance $80,000 at 8% for 4 years, your opportunity cost in the first year drops $2450 to $385, but your upkeep costs rise $5600 to $8488, bringing your cost of ownership for the first year to a whopping >> $27,080 <<.
Cost of upkeep (maintenance, insurance, operating costs)
+
Depreciation (loss of asset value)
+
Opportunity cost (what else could you have done with the money invested in the asset?)
+
Transaction costs.
For argument's sake, let's consider the '01 Viper I just ordered. Let's also pray my wife never reads this post...
Total cost for first year of ownership of the '01 Viper, assuming 6000 miles/yr, will be:
Upkeep:
$150 (two mobil 1 oil changes) +
$1038 (461 gals gas @ $2.25/gal) +
$1000 (insurance) +
$700 (4 half-worn tires @ $350 ea) =
>>$2,888<<
Depreciation:
I wrangled $3000 off MSRP for my new Viper, giving me a purchase price of $72,500 + tx/fees. A year later I can reasonably expect it to be saleable for $63,000, judging from the depreciation behavior of previous years' models. Thus, depreciation will cost >>$9,500<<
Opportunity cost:
Instead of paying the $81,000 my viper will cost me out the door, I could choose to invest this money in some low-risk asset. At current rates of return, I could expect to net 3.5% after tax (using, say, Muni STRIPs). That means that my net opportunity cost is >>$2,835<<
Transaction costs:
A number of fees and taxes come into play in the sale of a motor vehicle. The three major ones are sales tax (8.5%) of $5907, luxury tax of approx $1800, and license fee of approx $1000. Together these fees total >>$8,707<<
Sum these categories up, and my total cost of owning a viper for the first year is:
$23,930
which is pretty horrendous.
Fortunately, my second year is much less expensive:
Upkeep ($3888 incl reg renewal) +
Depreciation ($7500) +
Opportunity cost ($2940) +
Transaction costs ($0) =
$14,328
... and so on.
One note: if you finance the car, the picture changes a bit for the worse. Your opportunity cost goes down since you haven't invested as much money up front, but your upkeep costs rise sharply because of the interest you're paying on the loan. As an example, if you put $1,000 down and finance $80,000 at 8% for 4 years, your opportunity cost in the first year drops $2450 to $385, but your upkeep costs rise $5600 to $8488, bringing your cost of ownership for the first year to a whopping >> $27,080 <<.
Todd, whatever YOU decide, we wish you luck !!!
I MUST compliment the above owners for their well thought out and well spoken advice...this is one of the best threads that I have read in content AND spirit !!! CONGRATS to the Viper Nation...and there will be a place here for you, Todd, when you so choose. P.S....I printed the whole thread just so I can re-read it occasionally to keep ME straight!!!
I MUST compliment the above owners for their well thought out and well spoken advice...this is one of the best threads that I have read in content AND spirit !!! CONGRATS to the Viper Nation...and there will be a place here for you, Todd, when you so choose. P.S....I printed the whole thread just so I can re-read it occasionally to keep ME straight!!!
BigsViper
Enthusiast
Many wonderful replies, good common sense and info to help this future owner. My comment? So long as you can live with the maximum downside (job falls through, economic recession, reposession, trashed credit) then GO FOR IT! Just don't be foolish and assume that things will only improve. True character is formed through surviving the tough times, and everyone has them.
I bought a '70 superbird (440 6-pack)in '72 at the ripe old age of 16, so I know about that "can't wait, gotta have a Mopar" feeling. After I married and had kids I've been a good boy and delayed and saved (but I have played the best golf courses in the western hemisphere, my previous vice). Now I await the delivery of my 2000 GTS (today?), and I feel just like I did when I bought my 'bird. The difference now is, if I used your income to car ratio I could buy about 9 or 10 Vipers a year. A wise man once asked me: do you want be wealthy or just appear wealthy? Well maybe for you it's neither, maybe you just want the hottest car in the world (for the money). Truely wealthy people buy luxuries last. However a luxury once sampled becomes a necessity!
Remember, too that BTREYNOR's numbers are AFTER TAX!!! That means after you get that great job, it will take 25%to 30% more than
the $24m estimated, depending on your tax rate. A better idea, start your own company, lease the snake and write the whole thing off as a promotional tool! let Uncle Sam pay that 25% to 30% (Jeez, I wish my rate was that low!) C'mon Dubya!
I bought a '70 superbird (440 6-pack)in '72 at the ripe old age of 16, so I know about that "can't wait, gotta have a Mopar" feeling. After I married and had kids I've been a good boy and delayed and saved (but I have played the best golf courses in the western hemisphere, my previous vice). Now I await the delivery of my 2000 GTS (today?), and I feel just like I did when I bought my 'bird. The difference now is, if I used your income to car ratio I could buy about 9 or 10 Vipers a year. A wise man once asked me: do you want be wealthy or just appear wealthy? Well maybe for you it's neither, maybe you just want the hottest car in the world (for the money). Truely wealthy people buy luxuries last. However a luxury once sampled becomes a necessity!
Remember, too that BTREYNOR's numbers are AFTER TAX!!! That means after you get that great job, it will take 25%to 30% more than
the $24m estimated, depending on your tax rate. A better idea, start your own company, lease the snake and write the whole thing off as a promotional tool! let Uncle Sam pay that 25% to 30% (Jeez, I wish my rate was that low!) C'mon Dubya!
Tom Friend
Enthusiast
If you really feel that urge, and it just won't go away...
Go talk to all the Dodge dealers near you. Keep your temper and do not despair when they dis you for your age, income, etc. Smile, because inside you know that in another 10 years, these clowns will still be wearing polyester. Yes, you will get slimed, pressured and abused.
Now call Bill Pemberton and Eric Lee, the two dealers who grace this board and support it with their advertising $$. You will find a Very Different Attitude with these guys. You will be treated with respect and honesty. The price will be better than any you can get from your local dealer.
Wait until the absolute end of the year if you can. The dealers are all anxious to improve their year end numbers and hate having inventory at the end of the calendar year. I waited until the last week of December to buy mine, and I got lucky. I still managed to find the exact model I wanted, and I paid $500 over invoice.
Now, all that said, go get a cheap Miata instead and save save save, while investing in the stock market. You will quickly amass enough to buy a 3rd generation Viper- outright.
Go talk to all the Dodge dealers near you. Keep your temper and do not despair when they dis you for your age, income, etc. Smile, because inside you know that in another 10 years, these clowns will still be wearing polyester. Yes, you will get slimed, pressured and abused.
Now call Bill Pemberton and Eric Lee, the two dealers who grace this board and support it with their advertising $$. You will find a Very Different Attitude with these guys. You will be treated with respect and honesty. The price will be better than any you can get from your local dealer.
Wait until the absolute end of the year if you can. The dealers are all anxious to improve their year end numbers and hate having inventory at the end of the calendar year. I waited until the last week of December to buy mine, and I got lucky. I still managed to find the exact model I wanted, and I paid $500 over invoice.
Now, all that said, go get a cheap Miata instead and save save save, while investing in the stock market. You will quickly amass enough to buy a 3rd generation Viper- outright.
ACR Joe
Enthusiast
Jason is on the mark except buy the car even if it means a big monthly nut.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, all you really have is the here and now."
I can cite many examples of why this is not necessarily an ill advised principle.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, all you really have is the here and now."
I can cite many examples of why this is not necessarily an ill advised principle.
Todd,
I agree with Viperman100 and ACR Joe.
Could have bought the bigger house instead picked up an ACR for me and an IS300 for the wife only fair. When you get home from a BAD day of work the best therapy is "prozac on wheels" and to fill that Rx get in the VIPER! Maybe cheaper in the long run. You got alot of good advice here but the decision is yours.
John ACR
I agree with Viperman100 and ACR Joe.
Could have bought the bigger house instead picked up an ACR for me and an IS300 for the wife only fair. When you get home from a BAD day of work the best therapy is "prozac on wheels" and to fill that Rx get in the VIPER! Maybe cheaper in the long run. You got alot of good advice here but the decision is yours.
John ACR
Roland L-Ocala FL
Enthusiast
Todd,
One last word of advice, If you do get a Viper. (Between you and me, I would opt for the used one with a warrantee still avaialble), but first and foremost, go to a driving school! I don't mean to "knock" a 19 year old's driving ability at all.(Gotta give you credit instead for being financially able to go out and buy the most awesome car Dodge ever made),but so many posts on this board talk about new owners wrecking their Vipers within the first 60 days of ownership. If you have never owned a "true" musclecar, you will not be ready for the power that a Viper possesses. The last thing we want to hear about, is another Viper being wrecked, and the potential harm to the occupant(s). So, to get the most enjoyment out of the Viper, get thee to a driving school ASAP! It's the best money you will ever spend on enhancing the performace of a Viper!
One last word of advice, If you do get a Viper. (Between you and me, I would opt for the used one with a warrantee still avaialble), but first and foremost, go to a driving school! I don't mean to "knock" a 19 year old's driving ability at all.(Gotta give you credit instead for being financially able to go out and buy the most awesome car Dodge ever made),but so many posts on this board talk about new owners wrecking their Vipers within the first 60 days of ownership. If you have never owned a "true" musclecar, you will not be ready for the power that a Viper possesses. The last thing we want to hear about, is another Viper being wrecked, and the potential harm to the occupant(s). So, to get the most enjoyment out of the Viper, get thee to a driving school ASAP! It's the best money you will ever spend on enhancing the performace of a Viper!
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COST OF OWNING A VIPER.......................
A) 35,000 to 90,000 dollars , depending on year, mileage,etc.
B) $1000 to $3000 a year for insurance.
C) $500 t0 $2000 a year in property taxes in many states.
D) Number of blondes,brunettes and redheads you can now pick up -
PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A) 35,000 to 90,000 dollars , depending on year, mileage,etc.
B) $1000 to $3000 a year for insurance.
C) $500 t0 $2000 a year in property taxes in many states.
D) Number of blondes,brunettes and redheads you can now pick up -
PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ulysses
Enthusiast
All really good answers. It's good that you are planning to own a Viper at this early stage. But that's not the only thing to plan for in life. Janni and BigsViper hit the nail on the head. You have to plan on the future and on surprise events. Can you own that Viper AND retire comfortably AND handle events like if you lose your job or you want to buy a house or your car has a major breakdown that isn't covered under warranty. It's true you may not live forever and life's short, but you never know. The worst case is that you do live a long time. What if you live to 100 and you didn't plan on it. What then? What if you get that job and you buy that car and things don't work out in a year. Sure, you can always sell that car. You're young and can refocus. But what if things work out for a few years and then you lose that job because of a recession or worse yet, a depression and it's harder to find a job in the field you trained in? You can sell that car but you've spent an enormous amount on payments, upkeep and repairs and have hardly any savings. How long is that money earned on the sale of the car going to last? Is it going to last during a slow recovery that could be years. Who knows if under these worst case situations you can sell the car at all. Just keep these things in mind and plan accordingly. When it comes down to it, it's your money and your future and your decision. Do what you think is right, but remember that nothing is certain and you have to plan for those uncertainties. Now get out there and have fun, because that's important too!
treynor
Enthusiast
Yikes -- that last part really hits home! See Liz's page at http://www.treynor.com if you want the details -- the macro point is that one does need to strike a balance in life betwen planning for the future and living for today.
Ben & Liz
Ben & Liz
rschiltz
Enthusiast
I would definitely check out the insurance costs. I would expect them to be pretty high since your not 25 yet. Good luck with your decision. You sure will be on envied young guy. I bought a new C5 when I was 24. I hope to get a Viper eventually.
Just bought a low milage 99 rt for 44k, as 2nd cars go, it wasn't much more then buying a new Mustang GT.
Here's my cost analysis:
Initial costs:
$6000 = taxes, licensing, shipping, etc.
Yearly costs:
$500 = depreciation
$2000 = insurance for 2nd car--my driving record could be better
$1500 = matainence--I don't plan on putting many miles on the car
$1500 = lost investment income
That's $5500 a year, Expensive, yes, but all cars are. In comparison if I would have bought a 2007 Mustang GT:
Initial costs:
$4500 = taxes, licensing, destionation charge etc.
$2500 = depreciation (much more the first year)
$1500 = insurance for 2nd car
$100 = matainence (just oil changes!)
$1200 = lost investment income
That's $5300 a year! just $200 less than the Viper!
If I sold the mustang in 5 years I'd be out $31,000, total expenses. The viper would cost me $33,500. $2500 difference and I'm driving a viper instead of a stang!
Here's my cost analysis:
Initial costs:
$6000 = taxes, licensing, shipping, etc.
Yearly costs:
$500 = depreciation
$2000 = insurance for 2nd car--my driving record could be better
$1500 = matainence--I don't plan on putting many miles on the car
$1500 = lost investment income
That's $5500 a year, Expensive, yes, but all cars are. In comparison if I would have bought a 2007 Mustang GT:
Initial costs:
$4500 = taxes, licensing, destionation charge etc.
$2500 = depreciation (much more the first year)
$1500 = insurance for 2nd car
$100 = matainence (just oil changes!)
$1200 = lost investment income
That's $5300 a year! just $200 less than the Viper!
If I sold the mustang in 5 years I'd be out $31,000, total expenses. The viper would cost me $33,500. $2500 difference and I'm driving a viper instead of a stang!
big-n-italian
Enthusiast
a friend of mine just dropped dead at 32. life is too short, if you can pull it off, do it. if it doesnt work out, sell it.
big-n-italian
Enthusiast
This thread is seven years old .
hey, you are right!
i wonder if he bought a viper or not! LOL
dave6666
Enthusiast
This thread is seven years old .
And light years beyond boring. ***. Do I need 4000 sweaty wrench heads giving me financial advice? ***?
mad0953
Enthusiast
You should write a column for some car mag dave. You certainly have a way with words. Must be all that beer!!!!!
