track fever

[dmann]

Yall, I have the track fever, never before but it's on me. I really like road atlanta and will try that next year hopefully. I have a SRT track day to do so that'll get me out there.

Just curious what this type hobby cost, wear and tear, tires, brakes etc. whats the amount of track time goes for most tires and brakes? I'm guessing maybe 3-6 track days a year.

What about insurance? Prob silly question but crashing a 100K car would bring tears to my eyes.

ANother questions, What do yall think the ACRs wil run $$ wise? I know the TA is a bargain. Do you all think they are the new ACR?

Any info appreciated

-David

 

[kdaviper]

The TA model was meant to bridge the gap between the base model and the ACR(or whatever it shall be called).

 

[kdaviper]

The TA model was meant to bridge the gap between the base model and the ACR(or whatever it shall be called).

The new ACR will supposedly be "radical" according to Ralph Gilles. iirc, 1500lbs of downforce at 150 mph. It will have crazy aero, adjustable suspension, new gumball tires, a different hood, ... the rest is secret as far as I know. they try to keep the info on super lockdown, the ACR is their skunkiest of skunkworks. very few people know details.

 

[AZTVR]

Yall, I have the track fever, never before but it's on me. I really like road atlanta and will try that next year hopefully. I have a SRT track day to do so that'll get me out there.

Just curious what this type hobby cost, wear and tear, tires, brakes etc. whats the amount of track time goes for most tires and brakes? I'm guessing maybe 3-6 track days a year.

What about insurance? Prob silly question but crashing a 100K car would bring tears to my eyes.

Here is a good, recent thread about insurance.
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668300-Track-day-Insurance-for-my-Gen-V

 

[ViperSmith]

Also, remove your plates from your cars when tracking. Even when using track insurance, some people have had their cars dropped from their regular insurance because of photos on the internet.

 

[TRACKDAY]

As far as track day events go, you should factor in the following cost to gauge how much a typical event will cost you:

Track day participation - $225 to $350 per day.

Hotel expense - $80 to $150 per day.

Fuel costs - $80 to $125.

Tires - $1,000 to $2,000 depending on what tires you run and how long they last.

Track day insurance - $200 to $350 per day. Most policies will only cover the car if it's considered a total loss. Most won't cover minor damage or mechanical failures.

As you can see, it gets very expensive very quickly. However, it's the most fun you can have with your cloths on.

I haven't seen anything on the next ACR yet, so only time will tell.

Hope this helps.

 

[VENOM V]

That's exactly what happened to me, I got an incurable case of track fever that rages today.

Great info posted by the others. Trackday posted a comprehensive list. Here are a couple other details I'd like to add:

Brake pads: After 3 track days and 4,500 miles, my stock front pads were worn down to 2 mm, and needed replacement. Rears still had 10mm, so plenty of life left on them. I switched to Brakeman 3 pads in front, and it appears that I will get about 5 to 6 track days out of them. I will get about 10 to 12 track days out of my stock rears. I plan on switching to Brakeman 3's in the rear too, once the stock pads wear out. I am an aggressive driver so I go through pads and tires faster than some of my friends, so yours may last longer.

Brake fluid: Also plan on a brake fluid flush with Dot 4 brake fluid such as Motul 600 every 6 months, to prevent fluid boil and brake fade.

I highly recommend a driving school such as Ron Fellows School at Spring Mountain near Vegas. Their three day Level 1 course is about $3k. Their mixture of classroom and on track driving is fantastic. Join the Corvette forum and they'll offer you a discount. I've been there twice and am going back for a private lesson in the Viper in March. Professional instruction will do wonders for your car control, confidence and safety, and you will be turning fast laps in no time.

 

[VENOM V]

Track day insurance - $200 to $350 per day. Most policies will only cover the car if it's considered a total loss. Most won't cover minor damage or mechanical failures.

I've been curious about this, I've bought track day insurance about ten times but never asked about minor damage. So if I suffer $50k damage but it's not a total loss, they don't cover it? Yikes!

One more detail to add about track day insurance providers. I track with Speed Ventures most often. They rent out timing transponders. Katz Insurance doesn't cover you if you rent a transponder, even if you're not participating in a time trial. Lockton Affinity HPDE Insurance does (but neither cover any sort of time trial or competition). I like timing transponders because Speed Ventures lines up the cars in order of speed, so you're not stuck behind slow cars. I actually think the transponders thus make it safer. For this reason, I've had to use Locton rather than Katz Insurance, although I like both companies for different reasons.

 

[dmann]

You all have definitely got me to thinking about more than whats obvious.
ok... Thats expensive. Maybe a couple times a year lol

I guess it really comes down to how much enjoyment one gets out of it.

Venom,
I think the driving school might be the best option starting out. That'll give me a good base to start with. It's hard to break old habits.

 

[bushido]

The new ACR will supposedly be "radical" according to Ralph Gilles. iirc, 1500lbs of downforce at 150 mph. It will have crazy aero, adjustable suspension, new gumball tires, a different hood, ... the rest is secret as far as I know. they try to keep the info on super lockdown, the ACR is their skunkiest of skunkworks. very few people know details.

I hope you're right. Looking forward in getting another ACR..

 

[dmann]

Have any used MVP track time?

 

[bluestreak]

Yes, good club to run with. Chin Motorsports is awesome too.


If you are a novice driver, you should be ok paying the entry fee and taking a stock car to the track. You may want a better brake fluid and pads, but that's it. Other expenses are hotel if needed and gas. That's it when you are first starting really other than insurance.

It's better not to add it all up. Just go.

 

[Nine Ball]

I wouldn't recommend race tires until you've had at least 5-6 track weekends under your belt. Street performance radials will last much longer, and teach you better car control. If you go out on race tires and don't know how to run the lines smoothly, you'll just wear them out very quickly and might not learn the limits of the vehicle well.

 

[Allan]

I wouldn't recommend race tires until you've had at least 5-6 track weekends under your belt. Street performance radials will last much longer, and teach you better car control. If you go out on race tires and don't know how to run the lines smoothly, you'll just wear them out very quickly and might not learn the limits of the vehicle well.

Exactly.
I ran 5 seasons before I made the jump to race rubber.
Street tires are a must for learning. They are more progressive slip wise, and you can hear them communicate by squealing.
Also with the lower cornering speed limits, it's safer and you have more time to figure out what's up with handling the car.

I exploited the lower grip levels of street tires, and had a lot of fun with drifting on the track.
-ended up in the weeds every once in a while.
Sideways is definitely not the fastest way around the turn, but it is a lot of fun.

Went through 2 sets of Sport Cups,.......no more drifting, and got way faster.
Moved up to Hoosiers and got faster yet.

 

[AZTVR]

It's better not to add it all up. Just go.

^^^^^^^^ This ! You bought a Viper. There is NO OTHER WAY to experience it like it was meant to be experienced.

 

[Bruce H.]

I wouldn't recommend race tires until you've had at least 5-6 track weekends under your belt. Street performance radials will last much longer, and teach you better car control. If you go out on race tires and don't know how to run the lines smoothly, you'll just wear them out very quickly and might not learn the limits of the vehicle well.

This is very true. The TA comes with r-compounds so I'll be doing a couple of car control and driver developments schools again just to get a sense of where the limits are in a safer environment before hitting the high speed tracks in May. Then I'll be switching over to probably Pilot Super Sports to see if they provide enough grip to have a good time on track and easier to live with on the street. It's either that or buy a second set of Sidewinders, etc.

 

[05Commemorative]

This is very true. The TA comes with r-compounds so I'll be doing a couple of car control and driver developments schools again just to get a sense of where the limits are in a safer environment before hitting the high speed tracks in May. Then I'll be switching over to probably Pilot Super Sports to see if they provide enough grip to have a good time on track and easier to live with on the street. It's either that or buy a second set of Sidewinders, etc.

If you are going to track it, just buy a 2nd set of wheels/tires. much easier. Also, once you have the r-compounds, you are not going to want to go back. The frustration of not achieving the higher speeds will bother you.

As others have said, progression is the following:
1) street tires, stock car
2) upgrade brake fluid
3) upgrade tires (cups)
4) upgrade brakes (pads initially, then you will want two-piece rotors eventually)
5) upgrade tires (hoosiers)
6) realize need 2nd set of wheels for track
7) upgrade suspension to MCS
8) brake cooling, 6pt harness, etc

it just keeps on going. Never look at the cost as it will cause "logic" to come in to play... also, you will quickly find that driving on the street is extremely boring in the car as driving at the limits is so much fun on the track. This is why when I see folks talk about HP, street racing, etc, I just don't get it as nowhere close to as much fun or safe. also, on the track you would quickly learn you don't want turbo's or superchargers. Power is not the limitation, driver skill, smoothness and grip are. You know you have got there when you don't discuss how fast it was on the straight, but instead how fast it was in the turns, particularly exiting them and your lap times. IMHO, this is why the car was made, is special and mis-understood.

My only advice to do it all over again would be to get the safety aspects first (6pt harness, driving lessons). Too many guys add HP first and it bites them.

 

[VENOM V]

My only advice to do it all over again would be to get the safety aspects first (6pt harness, driving lessons). Too many guys add HP first and it bites them.

Totally agree with this point. The Gen V is made for a direct bolt-in 6 point harness made by Teamtech. Although the install is not easy, there is no drilling necessary, the seats are harness-ready (even two slits for the submarine straps are present, in addition to the holes for the shoulder straps). And you don't have to disturb your factory 3-point seat belt mounting, as they mount to independent locations.

And if you're running a 6-point, invest in a HANS type device. You need to protect your neck in the event of a collision, because the 6 point won't give much at all as compared to the amount your body can pivot with the factory 3-point. I bought a Necksgen, very pleased with it. They have a new model that they just came out with that gives protection front-rear and side-side. It's so comfortable that you don't even notice it when tracking. It's a little bizarre initially because you have to get used to not being able to turn your head much when strapped in, but that is a non-issue on the track.

 

[Bruce H.]

I'm trying to have the harness installed at the factory when they build the car. My only concern is the use of them without a roll cage, and the possibility of the roof collapsing in a roll-over. Does anyone know if the roof has adequate protection from collapse?

I've tracked long enough to be able to enjoy a track day without race tires, and separate wheels won't help when I go back to Road Atlanta (17 hrs), Road America (13 hrs), Virginia Int'l (10 hrs), etc, etc. Besides, when it's raining I'll be the fastest car on the track

 

[VENOM V]

I'm trying to have the harness installed at the factory when they build the car. My only concern is the use of them without a roll cage, and the possibility of the roof collapsing in a roll-over. Does anyone know if the roof has adequate protection from collapse?

I've tracked long enough to be able to enjoy a track day without race tires, and separate wheels won't help when I go back to Road Atlanta (17 hrs), Road America (13 hrs), Virginia Int'l (10 hrs), etc, etc. Besides, when it's raining I'll be the fastest car on the track

I've been wondering the same. When I look at my two track cars, there is no way I'd track the Camaro with a 6-point harness without at least a roll bar. But in the Viper, you sit down low relative to the top of the frame behind your shoulders, which is about shoulder height. The roof is not tall above that, intuitively it looks like it would survive a roll over reasonably well. The Camaro does not look as safe. I am having a roll bar installed in the Camaro as we speak, for that reason. Also getting Sparco Evo seats, a 6 point harness, and will use my Necksgen head and neck restraint.

I may decide to have a roll bar installed in the Viper down the road. There's a guy in So Cal that makes gorgeous 4 point roll bars for Vipers. I saw one in person in a Gen III that I tracked with about a week ago. The verticals of the main hoop actually go inside the interior panels behind the doors. It looks factory. I might have one made for my Viper. Once he makes one, I would think you could order it from him and install it or have it installed. Let me know if you want any more info.

As far as a full roll cage in a Viper, I wouldn't recommend it in a Viper unless it's a dedicated race car. I rode in Redsled's 2002 GTS-R, and my helmet was literally touching the roll cage the whole time we were in the car. It would be dangerous to drive that without a helmet. I don't even think there's enough room for roll bar padding, it's that tight.

 

[Bruce H.]

I've never had a 6 point harness with a harness bar because of the lack of a roll bar, and been recommended against them for that reason. I would definitely be interested in any info you or others find on roll-over protection, and sure others would be as well. I've been able to lock the 3 pt belt tensioners with a quick snap, and then snug my body in place fairly securely by using the power seats in other track day cars, but the TA has manual seats that would prevent that. Hopefully there's a good solution.

 

[dmann]

If you are going to track it, just buy a 2nd set of wheels/tires. much easier. Also, once you have the r-compounds, you are not going to want to go back. The frustration of not achieving the higher speeds will bother you.

As others have said, progression is the following:
1) street tires, stock car
2) upgrade brake fluid
3) upgrade tires (cups)
4) upgrade brakes (pads initially, then you will want two-piece rotors eventually)
5) upgrade tires (hoosiers)
6) realize need 2nd set of wheels for track
7) upgrade suspension to MCS
8) brake cooling, 6pt harness, etc

it just keeps on going. Never look at the cost as it will cause "logic" to come in to play... also, you will quickly find that driving on the street is extremely boring in the car as driving at the limits is so much fun on the track. This is why when I see folks talk about HP, street racing, etc, I just don't get it as nowhere close to as much fun or safe. also, on the track you would quickly learn you don't want turbo's or superchargers. Power is not the limitation, driver skill, smoothness and grip are. You know you have got there when you don't discuss how fast it was on the straight, but instead how fast it was in the turns, particularly exiting them and your lap times. IMHO, this is why the car was made, is special and mis-understood.

My only advice to do it all over again would be to get the safety aspects first (6pt harness, driving lessons). Too many guys add HP first and it bites them.

I like the thoughts of serperate wheel tire sets. The Go faster pieces would definitely be getting the brakes up to parr and maybe suspension work later.

I raced bikes for about 2 decades but it was motocross, low speed but brakes and suspension was and is king in racing regardless of the motor sport. I became Ohlins certified to service and sell their products. I will see if they offer anything... and this is where I get a little crazy not paying attention to the $$.

Safety being the other important mod. I know nothing about harnesses or neck braces.

I'll be researching.

 

[dmann]

Guys, Yall sure know how to get a guy stirred up lol
All this stuff sounds great.

I sure hope that I get to meet some of you out at the track. I like to learn!

 

[Bruce H.]

Guys, Yall sure know how to get a guy stirred up lol
All this stuff sounds great.

I sure hope that I get to meet some of you out at the track. I like to learn!

Haha...me too!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[dmann]

Haha...me too!

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Thats a freaking **** car!! Dang, I'm wishing I had gone with a TA.

 

[dmann]

Are all Vipers coilover designs? This is super adjustable depending on the shock. I'm gonna being looking at some adjustable
(maybe MCS) sets that have race preload and comp/reb dampening.

 

[05Commemorative]

I like the thoughts of serperate wheel tire sets. The Go faster pieces would definitely be getting the brakes up to parr and maybe suspension work later.

I raced bikes for about 2 decades but it was motocross, low speed but brakes and suspension was and is king in racing regardless of the motor sport. I became Ohlins certified to service and sell their products. I will see if they offer anything... and this is where I get a little crazy not paying attention to the $$.

Safety being the other important mod. I know nothing about harnesses or neck braces.

I'll be researching.

I forgot to mention, as the list goes, you then get an enclosed trailer and don't drive to the track. turns out when you put the goodies on the car (good breaks, track tires and alignment, etc), car is not great on street and you start to think of things like getting a flat, tire wear on the street, etc.

I laugh at my first track day where I just drove the car to the track and went. Now, enclosed trailer, tools for various things, air pressures and temp checks, timers, video, etc all to drop that lap time down. Great time though.

 

[dmann]

I forgot to mention, as the list goes, you then get an enclosed trailer and don't drive to the track. turns out when you put the goodies on the car (good breaks, track tires and alignment, etc), car is not great on street and you start to think of things like getting a flat, tire wear on the street, etc.

I laugh at my first track day where I just drove the car to the track and went. Now, enclosed trailer, tools for various things, air pressures and temp checks, timers, video, etc all to drop that lap time down. Great time though.

The trailer just makes it special lol I see now I shouldn't have sold my truck, dang!

 

[dmann]

I'm curious, what kind of trailer is used? I'd be scared to drive it up in there unless it was like 10 feet wide.

 

[TrackAire]

I'm curious, what kind of trailer is used? I'd be scared to drive it up in there unless it was like 10 feet wide.

An enclosed trailer makes life very comfortable when tracking your car. Getting the car in or out is super easy if you use an electric winch. Loading and unloading a Viper becomes a stress free one man job with a winch.

I wish I had bought an enclosed trailer years ago....best "racing" accessory I've bought since I can travel further, carry more stuff and have somewhere to relax between session regardless of what the weather is.

George