Track wheels? SSR?

[Shandon]

I talked to JonB about some Track (road race) wheels. I currently use my OEM when I put hoosiers on as my fancy Iforged rims are not intended for track use. Anyway Partsrack has an SSR wheel thats lighter than the ACR/Copperhead wheels and I am wondering if anyone has put some serious track work on these things yet? Whats your experience with them? The Forgline ZX3R are my other choice but I don't know anything about the weights on those track rims?

 

[FrankBarba]

I have used SSR wheels in the Past. Have been very happy with them.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Are they the forged versions or the cheaper cast ones? I guess I would not trust a cast wheel for track abuse IMO.

 

[Brandon@DC Performance]

The forged SSRs (and even the non-forged for that matter) are great track wheels but I would definitely suggest opting for the forged because of the weight of the car.

Also, I'm not sure if they're available in the correct sizes/widths, but iForged has a 1-piece track version wheel available that I've heard great things about.

 

[Kadeuces]

You must be registered for see images attach

I like them on the track.

 

[GR8_ASP]

No problem here with SSR's. The ones I have are not cold forged but are semi solid forged. Semi solid forging provides the highest strength and ductility by grain alignment during the forming process. It is like forging but the metal is at a semi molten state. This is the same process used for some aluminum rocker arms that require higher fatigue strength than permanent mold casting could provide.

Here is a link with more info: Wheel Tech - Wheel Construction

 

[Nine Ball]

At the last few track days I've attended, these were among the more popular for Vipers and other cars:

CCW (Complete Custom Wheel)
Fikse
Forgeline

I'm a dealer for Fikse and Forgeline, and after weighing both I'd say it is a wash. Just depends on which style you go with for each brand. I'm also an iForged dealer, and the TE-10 track wheels weighed about 1.25 lbs less than the TE-14. Guess thin spokes just use less material. I don't think they make a 13" width TE-series yet, only 19x12". I know they do not make an 18x12+ yet.

Tony

 

[JonB]

I talked to JonB about some Track (road race) wheels. I currently use my OEM when I put hoosiers on as my fancy Iforged rims are not intended for track use. Anyway Partsrack has an SSR wheel thats lighter than the ACR/Copperhead wheels and I am wondering if anyone has put some serious track work on these things yet? Whats your experience with them? The Forgline ZX3R are my other choice but I don't know anything about the weights on those track rims?

Shandon:

Despite comments above, there are NO cast SSRs in Viper sizes. Even the older SSR-Vipers were forged. (thanks to GR8ASP-Ron for the tech) That said, Gen 1 wheels were cast, and for many years and hundreds-of-thousands of track miles I dont know of a single Gen 1 cast wheel failure. {Example: Rich Bontempi has been kicking my ASP and others for over a decade, on GEN 1 sawblades !}

We have dozens of customers on SSRs for pure-track use, most with Kumhos or Hoosiers (Competitive prices, which we mount-balance free.) At least 5 of these guys have multiple sets, and use em on VCCs, new ACR, SRT10s. And lots of single-set GTS track-rats too.

We are vendors for CCW and Forgeline as well, but your lowest-weight and best value
will be SSRs, MARCH SALE under $2400/set, Satin Black or Anthracite Grey.

I just bumped TWO threads in "Supplier Specials" Forum with lots of feedback and fotos.

http://forums.viperclub.org/new-pro...t-over-ssr-wheels-stock-under-2550-set-2.html

Here is one old thread: http://forums.viperclub.org/new-pro...-back-stock-under-2000-set-3.html#post2663433

THANKS

 

[Viper X]

Shandon,

I have 3 sets of SSR's for my Vipers. One in the earlier color, two in black. I run the black wheels exclusively on the track with Hoosier R6 tires and regularly pull 1.3 to 1.5 G's with them in high speed turns. Previously, I ran them on my 01 GTS ACR track car (VRL Hoosier slicks), now I run them on my 09 SRT-10 ACR. I've run about 10 to12 track events per year for the last 3 years.

I have also run them on the back of my 1100 hp SRT-10 mile, 1/2 mile drag car with drag radials or slicks, depending on the venue.

They are very light and very strong. I've had no issues with them.

These are the wheels that I recommend to our club members due to their strength, durability and price.....and I've really "beaten on them", so to speak. Combine them with 305 / 335 Kumho Ecsta V700s and you have a very effective package that you can drive to the track, run the car all weekend long and then drive home. You will love this combination if you are a beginner or intermediate driver. You may want to have the Kumho's shaved if you are a racer. This combo is also excellent for AutoX.

If you search this forum, there's a photo of a high ranking Dodge / SRT guy (he is a very good driver) who also runs them on his black ACR. They are six spoke wheels that come in only 18 inch sizes for Viper.

Call Jon B for more info. He's the one the got me started on these wheels.

As far as I know, they've always been semi-solid forged in Viper sizes, never cast.

I've not seen one fail yet.....but I have seen many other wheels fail at the track.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[JonB]

Ill just SHUT UP now............. thanks Dan, JonB.

Shandon,

I have 3 sets of SSR's for my Vipers. One in the earlier color, two in black. I run the black wheels exclusively on the track with Hoosier R6 tires and regularly pull 1.3 to 1.5 G's with them in high speed turns. Previously, I ran them on my 01 GTS ACR track car (VRL Hoosier slicks), now I run them on my 09 SRT-10 ACR. I've run about 10 to12 track events per year for the last 3 years.

I have also run them on the back of my 1100 hp SRT-10 mile, 1/2 mile drag car with drag radials or slicks, depending on the venue.

They are very light and very strong. I've had no issues with them.

These are the wheels that I recommend to our club members due to their strength, durability and price.....and I've really "beaten on them", so to speak. Combine them with 305 / 335 Kumho Ecsta V700s and you have a very effective package that you can drive to the track, run the car all weekend long and then drive home. You will love this combination if you are a beginner or intermediate driver. You may want to have the Kumho's shaved if you are a racer. This combo is also excellent for AutoX.

If you search this forum, there's a photo of a high ranking Dodge / SRT guy (he is a very good driver) who also runs them on his black ACR. They are six spoke wheels that come in only 18 inch sizes for Viper.

Call Jon B for more info. He's the one the got me started on these wheels.

As far as I know, they've always been semi-solid forged in Viper sizes, never cast.

I've not seen one fail yet.....but I have seen many other wheels fail at the track.

Good luck, Dan

 

[RayC]

do these come in 18 and 19 inch or just 18's

 

[rcl4668]

do these come in 18 and 19 inch or just 18's

No 19s that I am aware of; the rear SSR measures 18 x 13.

 

[Bugeater]

You dont want a 19 for the track anyways.

 

[JonB]

do these come in 18 and 19 inch or just 18's

18x11 Front

18x13 Rear

W/ Kumho 305+335x18 Black under $3450 as shown. Photo Courtesy of FIXUMM IL VCA:

 

[rcl4668]

You dont want a 19 for the track anyways.

For HPDEs and track schools, the 19s actually work just fine. I bought a set of ACR/Sidwinder rims from Jon B and they actually weigh about the same as the 18'' SSR rims. (The ACR rims weigh 25 lb rear and 17.5 lbs front.)

The advantage is you can make use of OEM tire sizes, including the ACR Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 295/30/18 and 345/30/19 sizes as well as the new Kumho Ecsta XS stock sizes. You also don't need to do an e-brake relocation kit which you will nbeed to do with the 18'' SSRs although that's not an expensve option ($75?).

The advantage with the 18'' SSR is that there is probably a wider array of tire options in 18'' sizes for the rear although not many 345 width options. Also, the SSRs are probably a bit cheaper than the ACR rims.

/Rich

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The 18" wheels are IMO a carry over from Comp Coupe usage because of gearing and tire choices back in the day. Now I would prefer the 345's and the 18/19 because they sure look better IMHO and I don't have any problem driving on them. Plus if you are changing back to 19" rears for the street you should be changing the ride height and alignment also since these will change the way the car handles for each setup. You can't just throw 18's on and expect it to handle the same, but I'm sure this is nothing new just rambling I guess.

 

[JonB]

For HPDEs and track schools, the 19s actually work just fine. I bought a set of ACR/Sidwinder rims from Jon B and they actually weigh about the same as the 18'' SSR rims. (The ACR rims weigh 25 lb rear and 17.5 lbs front.)
......
The advantage with the 18'' SSR is that there is probably a wider array of tire options in 18'' sizes for the rear although not many 345 width options. Also, the SSRs are probably a bit cheaper than the ACR rims. /Rich

Thanks Rich! CORRECT: SSR package gives you at least SEVEN tire pkg options! All but one of them cheaper than the cheapest 18-19 setups. The result is lower cost-per-track-mile, and low weight as well.

Of course, anyone with dedicated track wheels will likley have a dedicated track setup. Or maybe a logbook for an an adjustable Moton, KW, HR, Penske, etc suspension to swap tires and wheels with ease.

 

[Shandon]

Everyone thank you for the information provided above! Thats what I love about the VCA! Lots of opinions and real world experience! Jon I will try and give you a ring this week.

So if I set the car up on 18" rims can I still get the appropriate rake on the car without running into clearance issues up front? I just had the car corner balanced and aligned based on my 18/19 setup. If I do a 18/18 setup do I only need to lower a bit and get the rake right or do I need it aligned again also? What im getting at is if all I need to do is make a mark on my Motons for the adjustment thats no big deal. Paying for an alignment back and forth because of slight lowering is not so cool?

 

[JonB]

Everyone thank you for the information provided above! Thats what I love about the VCA! Lots of opinions and real world experience! Jon I will try and give you a ring this week.

So if I set the car up on 18" rims can I still get the appropriate rake on the car without running into clearance issues up front? I just had the car corner balanced and aligned based on my 18/19 setup. If I do a 18/18 setup do I only need to lower a bit and get the rake right or do I need it aligned again also? What im getting at is if all I need to do is make a mark on my Motons for the adjustment thats no big deal. Paying for an alignment back and forth because of slight lowering is not so cool?

Since you did an alignment based on 18/19, and have the ADJUSTABLE MOTONS, you are in luck. Did you do a PERFORMANCE alignment? Track Alignment? Do you have a shock logbook-noteboook yet?

On flat-level ground, measure your frame-corners-to-ground clearances and log them.
When you switch to 18" SSRs, measure again. You will see the rear LOWER by about 1.2". And the fronts lower by about .5" With the motons, you can un-weight the rears and raise the rear .7" to attain the equivalent 18-19 rake. LOG THE NUMBER OF TURNS ON THE ADJUSTER RING. This gets you in the "event ballpark" and does NOT mean you have to re-align. EXCEPTION: If you are racing and hunting for tenths of a second, you WOULD benefit from a mild realignment, but absolutely NOT needed or adversely affected if you dont. When you put the 18/19 combo back on, your logbook helps you with the # of turns needed to raise it back to 18/19 settings.

FACT: Quite a few owners just slap on SSRs and track tires and GO HAVE FUN. Sure, a purist will warn about mild excess tire wear, and leaving a few tenths on the table. And maybe even a tiny bit more understeer with 18-18. (Adjustable with PSI) But if you aint racing for money, you DONT HAVE TO RE-ALIGN EVERY TIME!.

LATE EDIT: The ride height estimates above WILL VARY if you choose Kumho V700 vs V710 vs PS2 vs Hoosier, vs Toyo vs etc

 

[Schulmann]

After 2 years of use (2000mi lapping) I rate 10/10 the SSR wheels.

In Quebec the roads are in poor condition and many wheels will twist/bend under the intens stress from the holes on the road. After a while we are no longer able to balance the wheels and they will shake no matter what you do. So far I didn't need to balance the SSR wheels very often compared to the BBS wheels that I had before. Compared to other Viper wheels they are much cheaper however they are top quality. I don't know how well the SSR wheels would hold up on a Comp Coupe but for a occasionel lapping pilote they are just perfect.

In addition they provide a better ventillation for the brakes rotor thanks to the 6 thin spokes.


Don't hesite to install them on your Viper ...

Another advise: Don't try to hunt those last 1-2 seconds to catch the fastest drivers on the track. Those last 1-2 seconds are the most dangerous ones ... Install the SSR wheels with a good set of Hoosiers and have fun. If you are carefull the Hoosier will keep you safe

The best is to alternate the Hoosiers with street tires within the same lapping day. When you switch from the Hoosiers back to the street tires you will much better feel the under and over steer. But be carefull don't try this at 120mph In Montreal we have a nice airport race track where we have plenty of space for errors and drifting ...



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpPxhb4vMoo&feature=channel[/media]


SSR WHEELS IN ACTION

NB: This was a night lapping session. If you want to discover something really exciting try the night lapping at 130mph with Hoosiers ... I guarantee your passenger will through up after 10 min track time.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Tom Shapiro]

I bought ACR blems from Parts Rack for track use. Jon, are blems still available?

 

[rcl4668]

The 18" wheels are IMO a carry over from Comp Coupe usage because of gearing and tire choices back in the day. Now I would prefer the 345's and the 18/19 because they sure look better IMHO and I don't have any problem driving on them. Plus if you are changing back to 19" rears for the street you should be changing the ride height and alignment also since these will change the way the car handles for each setup. You can't just throw 18's on and expect it to handle the same, but I'm sure this is nothing new just rambling I guess.

Actually, this was news to me. So if I went with an 18'' SSR package and retained the same rolling diameter through correctly sized tires a track or perfomance alignment would be recommended? And if I wanted to swith back to my OEM 19/18 rims then I would need to do another alignment?

This would be for a 2008 Viper with stock (non-ACR) suspension.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Actually, this was news to me. So if I went with an 18'' SSR package and retained the same rolling diameter through correctly sized tires a track or perfomance alignment would be recommended? And if I wanted to swith back to my OEM 19/18 rims then I would need to do another alignment?

This would be for a 2008 Viper with stock (non-ACR) suspension.

"If" you have the same overall outside diameter as the 18/19 combo then no, this would be a big tire though. My statements are my thoughts, but I know for a fact that if you swap in the 18"'s and just raise the rear ride height with the spring perches in the rear the toe of the rear wheels will go from in (stable) to out (very loose!) and to do this safely and correctly whether looking for time on course or not is to check and realign at LEAST the rear because the balance and settings do change and guessing at what is correct at 130 mph or so is not something I would suggest.

Now I'm not trying too start a fight about this I have just seen too many smaller items than this that have been overlooked and caused thousands in damage and potential injury. I could care less what you decide to do, but I WILL tell you what is correct to keep you on the best side of safe first.

Take care,

 

[JonB]

"..... My statements are my thoughts, .......
Now I'm not trying too start a fight about this I have just seen too many smaller items than this that have been overlooked and caused thousands in damage and potential injury. I could care less what you decide to do, but I WILL tell you what is correct to keep you on the best side of safe first.

Let is not confuse scare-tactics with actual anecdotes as USERS and racers have cited above. Id worry more about leaving lug nuts loose. That's a 'smaller item that can cause'....yada-yada-yada....

The vast majority of our customers just bolt-on-and-go on SSRs and track tires. Without a realignment. I doubt that anyone who has slapped on SSRs and track or street tires without a relignment has encountered ANY safety or adverse handling issues. Much less caused or risked 'thousands in damage and potential injury.' Baloney. If this were TRUE, they would have chimed in on the NUMEROUS SSR threads here over the YEARS we have safely, economically provided and driven them.

If they were unsafe, or even problematic, we would NOT sell them. Nor would Viper-Days-NARRA allow them (We are a sponsor.) To say otherwise "..... My statements are my thoughts," .......is inflamatory, without facts.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Let is not confuse scare-tactics with actual anecdotes as USERS and racers have cited above. Id worry more about leaving lug nuts loose. That's a 'smaller item that can cause'....yada-yada-yada....

The vast majority of our customers just bolt-on-and-go on SSRs and track tires. Without a realignment. I doubt that anyone who has slapped on SSRs and track or street tires without a relignament has encountered ANY safety or adverse handling issues. Much less caused or risked 'thousands in damage and potential injury.' Baloney. If this were TRUE, they would have chimed in on the NUMEROUS SSR threads here over the YEARS we have safely, economically provided and driven them.

Like I said, YADA YADA YADA... I'm not trying to start a fight Jon. I just stated that WE would never advise anyone we sold wheels to that this is the OK thing to do. By all means you can and will do what you want to that's the American way.

 

[JonB]

THANKS MUCH for chiming in....

After 2 years of use (2000mi lapping) I rate 10/10 the SSR wheels.

In Quebec the roads are in poor condition and many wheels will twist/bend under the intens stress from the holes on the road. After a while we are no longer able to balance the wheels and they will shake no matter what you do. So far I didn't need to balance the SSR wheels very often compared to the BBS wheels that I had before. Compared to other Viper wheels they are much cheaper however they are top quality. I don't know how well the SSR wheels would hold up on a Comp Coupe but for a occasionel lapping pilote they are just perfect.

In addition they provide a better ventillation for the brakes rotor thanks to the 6 thin spokes.

Don't hesite to install them on your Viper ...

Another advise: Don't try to hunt those last 1-2 seconds to catch the fastest drivers on the track. Those last 1-2 seconds are the most dangerous ones ... Install the SSR wheels with a good set of Hoosiers and have fun. If you are carefull the Hoosier will keep you safe

The best is to alternate the Hoosiers with street tires within the same lapping day. When you switch from the Hoosiers back to the street tires you will much better feel the under and over steer. But be carefull don't try this at 120mph In Montreal we have a nice airport race track where we have plenty of space for errors and drifting ...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpPxhb4vMoo&feature=channel[/media]


SSR WHEELS IN ACTION

You must be registered for see images

 

[GR8_ASP]

Like I said, YADA YADA YADA... I'm not trying to start a fight Jon. I just stated that WE would never advise anyone we sold wheels to that this is the OK thing to do. By all means you can and will do what you want to that's the American way.

Why do you feel that it is so absolutely necessary to maintain the exact rake when switching to tires with a different radius (i.e. raising the end with reduced radius)? Based on your statements that adjusting the ride height to compensate requires a realignment (which the lack of is much more unsafe than a rake change), I wonder why you would propose that direction.

As an fyi I have tracked with standard rake and with the resulting rake using 18" all around, as with the SSRs, and have not experienced a poor handling condition. Most tracks lack the speed to bring the aero effects into play.

 

[JonB]

I bought ACR blems from Parts Rack for track use...... Jon, are blems still available?

Hi again Tom.

Since no ACRs have been built since October, CAAP has not 'rejected' any to make blems available!

That said, we have 8 fronts.....waiting for production to resume and nick some rears in the process. We have a couple sets on deposit ($500 refundable) and 2 sets therefore NOT allocated. Under $3100/set, ACR Black when avail....

As you saw at GingerMan, that 'Chrysler Guy' was running his ACR on black SSRs+Hoosiers from PartsRack, and hardly anyone even noticed he was NOT on the ACRs/Cups!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Why do you feel that it is so absolutely necessary to maintain the exact rake when switching to tires with a different radius (i.e. raising the end with reduced radius)? Based on your statements that adjusting the ride height to compensate requires a realignment (which the lack of is much more unsafe than a rake change), I wonder why you would propose that direction.

As an fyi I have tracked with standard rake and with the resulting rake using 18" all around, as with the SSRs, and have not experienced a poor handling condition. Most tracks lack the speed to bring the aero effects into play.

The rake of the chassis will change the corner entry handling and the overall balance of the Viper chassis. If you cannot tell the difference from one to the other than great you are fine not changing anything. I was not specifying ACR's only, and any Viper will react to rake change.

If you do add the rake back in the rear the toe will change at a minimum to a toe out condition. This will not be stable during corner entry and you will not be able to put corner exit power down either. This can be dangerous for the unskilled driver and even for a skilled one if driving at the limit. As I said though if you can't feel a difference then just do what you are and have fun.

My rant is over, it was not meant to be this and I have not said anything here that I have not told every customer I have that has asked or needed advice about what I think they should be doing.

Thanks,

 

[Viper X]

Hey Mark,

How much front to rear rake does the comp coupe have compared to the Gen III / IV Vipers?

Curious,

Dan