Trading my 03 Viper-Laugh of the week...

[georgethedog]

Well, I had the laugh of the week today. Tried to trade my 03 Viper (18K miles) for a 2010 Challenger SRT-8 with 2,400 miles. I told them up front that I ran the numbers and my bottom line was $3K and their car. After a day they came back with $3K plus my car... $6K difference... LMAO. (By the way, their asking price for the Challenger is $39,995--another joke as I bought my wife's new over a year ago for $37K and most low mileage ones on Autotrader are now low $30's with a few exceptions)

So, basically, they are suggesting I buy a $34K car and take $31K for my Viper. LMAO

Then, they came back with their final offer... A direct even trade. So, they want to trade me even up--let's see, they take a car off their lot that will bring tops $34-5K and get in return a car that should bring them $40K.

In 20 years of buying I have never been able to even get close with this particular dealer, but they had the car I wanted so I tried again. Fail. Everytime I see a car going down the road with that dealer's emblem on it I always think how screwed that person got.

 

[BlknBlu]

that does stink but that is the difference between Retail and Wholesale.

Hang in there

Bruce

 

[Smog Dog]

George--dealers are in business to make a profit--nothing wrong with that. You're right next door to Roanoke. Try them. but they have to eat, too. Like Bruce said...wholesale vs. retail...GLWS

Bill

 

[tcsracing1]

what is really funny is that 20 years from now people will not believe that you almost traded a 03 Viper for a 2012 challenger and cash... the values in the future will be much higher on the viper.

 

[georgethedog]

I have never, ever paid retail for a car; nor have I accepted wholesale for my trade in. Normally, I deal this way on a car:

I take 85% of the trade-in value of the car I am looking at (that is what dealers want to pay because that is about what they would get if they had to auction a car). Next I take 85% of the trade-in value of my car for the same reason. Now I have "hard dollars to hard dollars" difference between the cars. I then add $2,000 to the difference for dealer profit. I have dealt this way for years and it works. Usually, we are thousands apart in the beginning but normally it will come down to that figure I described or very close.

In this situation I did it differently because I know basically what top dollar dealers are paying for trade-in because my brother just traded his in (exact car) and he is harder to deal with than me. He got $32K for his trade. So, at the outer limits they have $32K in the car I was looking at and knowing how this dealer trades there is no way they have that much in that car. They wanted me to pay them $3K difference. Assuming they have $32K in their car (which I doubt) and I give them $2K profit bringing the price to $34K, that is giving me $31K for the Viper. I'm am sure $31K for my 2003 Viper is not very fair... I've been told by a dealer that $35K "hard money" is fair for my Viper. If that is true, then they should be willing to pay me at least $1K in the trade instead of me paying them $3K. I don't think that is even a good deal.

Since books are so far off on Vipers it seems, I did not take the 85% approach. Maybe I will try that tonight and see where the numbers work...

Interestingly enough, I am also looking at a 2008 C6 Vette Vert with the 4LT package. My 85% rule worked perfectly on this deal, but I am not sure I want the car...

I'm a CPA and I do understand profit, but I also teach Personal Finance and I understand that a person needs to make the best deal possible.

 

[georgethedog]

Using my 85% rule as show above (includingthe $2K profit) I found the following:

KKB difference = Pay me $3,500
Edmunds difference = Pay me $2,000
NADA Guides difference = I pay $1,800

Strange how different the books are. The dealer is stuck on a straight out car for car--no cash paid either way. I still think that I should get at least $2,500. So, we are at an impasse.

 

[georgethedog]

what is really funny is that 20 years from now people will not believe that you almost traded a 03 Viper for a 2012 challenger and cash... the values in the future will be much higher on the viper.

That's a 2010 Challenger... That's even funnier. Oh, and I never "almost traded" as I never considered giving them a penny. They wanted me to pay--I did not almost do it...

 

[georgethedog]

Trading is a bad way in this situation even if I save $$$ in sales tax, so if I get rid of it I will sell it outright. I will post it here first.

 

[wikkid]

Well, I had the laugh of the week today. Tried to trade my 03 Viper (18K miles) for a 2010 Challenger SRT-8 with 2,400 miles. I told them up front that I ran the numbers and my bottom line was $3K and their car. After a day they came back with $3K plus my car... $6K difference... LMAO. (By the way, their asking price for the Challenger is $39,995--another joke as I bought my wife's new over a year ago for $37K and most low mileage ones on Autotrader are now low $30's with a few exceptions)

So, basically, they are suggesting I buy a $34K car and take $31K for my Viper. LMAO

Then, they came back with their final offer... A direct even trade. So, they want to trade me even up--let's see, they take a car off their lot that will bring tops $34-5K and get in return a car that should bring them $40K.

In 20 years of buying I have never been able to even get close with this particular dealer, but they had the car I wanted so I tried again. Fail. Everytime I see a car going down the road with that dealer's emblem on it I always think how screwed that person got.

What did you expect, really. You get bent over on any trade, i dont care what kind of car you have.

 

[AbsolutHank]

Using my 85% rule as show above (includingthe $2K profit) I found the following:

KKB difference = Pay me $3,500
Edmunds difference = Pay me $2,000
NADA Guides difference = I pay $1,800

Strange how different the books are. The dealer is stuck on a straight out car for car--no cash paid either way. I still think that I should get at least $2,500. So, we are at an impasse.

That $2500 is the penalty, and freedom, to be able to get rid of your Viper in one day. Dealing with selling a car can be a pain, so you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you. Viper buyers get real cheap, and some will have problems financing $30k or more on a 9 year old car.

 

[georgethedog]

Yea, Hank. I'm just asking them to pay me only $2,500 difference. They want a straight trade--car for car. That is not fair considering all the numbers. I guess I will keep the Viper (not a bad thing) or sell it outright myself. I know if that car was at a different dealership the deal would be done... That is what is frustrating.

Quick story about that dealership: About 6 years ago I was buying a Ford 500 for a daily driver. There were two cars with identical miles (21K) and both 2005 and same color. One was a SE and one an SEL (SEL had more equipment, SE was base model). After negotiating with both dealers, the dealer who had the SEL wanted $1,800 less than the dealer with the SE. I even took the SEL to the dealer with the SE and showed them the cheaper deal for the better car. They would not budge and said their car was better even though I had them parked side by side and you could see the SEL had leather, dual power seats, sun roof, etc. They disagreed... Well, unfortunately, that is the same dealer with the Challenger. About any other dealer around here and the deal would be done.

That's why I laugh at anyone who is driving a car with that dealer's emblem on it because I know they got screwed and probably didn't know it...

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Yea, Hank. I'm just asking them to pay me only $2,500 difference. They want a straight trade--car for car. That is not fair considering all the numbers. I guess I will keep the Viper (not a bad thing) or sell it outright myself. I know if that car was at a different dealership the deal would be done... That is what is frustrating.

Quick story about that dealership: About 6 years ago I was buying a Ford 500 for a daily driver. There were two cars with identical miles (21K) and both 2005 and same color. One was a SE and one an SEL (SEL had more equipment, SE was base model). After negotiating with both dealers, the dealer who had the SEL wanted $1,800 less than the dealer with the SE. I even took the SEL to the dealer with the SE and showed them the cheaper deal for the better car. They would not budge and said their car was better even though I had them parked side by side and you could see the SEL had leather, dual power seats, sun roof, etc. They disagreed... Well, unfortunately, that is the same dealer with the Challenger. About any other dealer around here and the deal would be done.

That's why I laugh at anyone who is driving a car with that dealer's emblem on it because I know they got screwed and probably didn't know it...

George, one thing to think of.....Is not the only challenger in the world. I am sure that there are a few dealers out there, maybe not in your area that would love to take a Viper in for a Challenger. Good luck. On another note some people just don't care if they get screwed, its really is just the price paid for convenience.

 

[georgethedog]

George, one thing to think of.....Is not the only challenger in the world. I am sure that there are a few dealers out there, maybe not in your area that would love to take a Viper in for a Challenger. Good luck. On another note some people just don't care if they get screwed, its really is just the price paid for convenience.

Yea, you are right. I think I may start looking again, but at the same time I may have my Viper for sale at least on this board. Not sure I can do that as an enthusiast now that I am not a VCA member???

I would like to give this board first shot in case anyone is interested. It is a very nice Viper and somewhat unique in its color combo.

 

[SkyBob]

Yea, you are right. I think I may start looking again, but at the same time I may have my Viper for sale at least on this board. Not sure I can do that as an enthusiast now that I am not a VCA member???

Sure you can but it will cost you. This is one of the benefits of being a VCA member. I doubt listing the car for sale will cost as much as $125 though.

 

[Jog]

Wholesale and retail are both two different animals. Dealerships are designed to turn a profit..the game is already rigged for you to lose. Both you and I both know that the dealer will give you 31k for your car then sell it for at least 40k. But with all things considered an even trade is really not that bad. Your welcome to check other dealerships for a better offer but I don't think you'll find one. From my experience, anytime the dealer has to pay you cash; they're always reluctant to do so. Instead of asking for $2500 cash back, why not negotiate for something equally as valuable. Like an Extended Warranty on your purchase vehicle. If you can get the dealer to agree on an even trade plus throw in an extended warranty on your purchase vehicle; that's more valuable in the long run than $2500 plus the dealer doesn't have any out of pocket expenses. It's a win win situation.

 

[georgethedog]

Wholesale and retail are both two different animals. Dealerships are designed to turn a profit..the game is already rigged for you to lose. Both you and I both know that the dealer will give you 31k for your car then sell it for at least 40k. But with all things considered an even trade is really not that bad. Your welcome to check other dealerships for a better offer but I don't think you'll find one. From my experience, anytime the dealer has to pay you cash; they're always reluctant to do so. Instead of asking for $2500 cash back, why not negotiate for something equally as valuable. Like an Extended Warranty on your purchase vehicle. If you can get the dealer to agree on an even trade plus throw in an extended warranty on your purchase vehicle; that's more valuable in the long run than $2500 plus the dealer doesn't have any out of pocket expenses. It's a win win situation.

Good idea, but the exended warranty might not do me much good as I am going to mod the engine and supercharge it... It would cover other things I suppose.

By the way, did you read my post #5? I don't play the retail/wholesale game. My method works most of the time if you are patient, but it has never worked with this dealer.

 

[johniew398]

I don't understand. The dealer wouldn't give deal you thought was fair so you move on down the road.

This is a living for the dealers and they want to make the most money out of a deal they can. No one has to shop there. Since you have never been able to deal with them I'm not even sure why you tried.

 

[georgethedog]

I tried because they had the car I wanted. Had to try...

 

[madninjaskillz]

That $2500 is the penalty, and freedom, to be able to get rid of your Viper in one day. Dealing with selling a car can be a pain, so you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you. Viper buyers get real cheap, and some will have problems financing $30k or more on a 9 year old car.

That's exactly why I hope to be in a position in a year to buy the new one without trading in my current Viper. I know that they will try and rake me over the coals with a Gen 3. It's just not worth it to ever trade in a used Viper at a dealer.

 

[Jog]

If plan on selling your car yourself and you have the patience to wait for a buyer vs getting raked by the dealer then...Go For It!!...But I can tell you this; the average guy isn't walking around with 40k in his pocket to buy a Gen III plus banks don't like to finance cars that are more than 7 years old. And banks don't like to deal with private sellers cause there's very little recourse should problems arise during the business deal. So which should you chose; do you go with the dealer trade in option and risk getting robbed on your trade in value. Or do you go the private seller route and go through the long process of trying to sell your car on your own. So it basically comes down to the lesser of the two evils. Pick your poison and decide which one works for you.