Transmission howling noise

[72hemi]

So I missed 3rd today and now there is a slight howl around 2,000 rpm in 4th 5th and 6th, any ideas what I did and how bad I messed up?

 

[dave6666]

Missed 3rd and hit 1st or missed completely and hit neutral?

 

[72hemi]

Not sure what I hit really but it didn't fully engage the gear and made a growling noise, which of course I immediately put the clutch back in, so we are talking a fraction of a second. The car drives fine and shifts fine, but around 2,000 rpm in 4th 5th and 6th it has a slight howling noise. I'm soo mad at myself right now, I hope I didn't do anything serious.

 

[dave6666]

My car has a growling noise in all gears LOL.

Does it do it clutch in rolling with engine at 2K? (dump clutch while rolling...) Feel it in the shifter?

Do a tranny fluid change and have a close look at the old fluid.

Also, in 0.5 seconds at 7000 rpm your pistons go up and down about 50 times. You aren't fast enought to respond. None of us are. That's why missed shifts are typically not good.

 

[Ratical2]

Sorry to hear this happened John. Not sure what happened in your case, but there is a possibility that you bent a shift fork. This could cause the gear cluster to not fully engage.

At this point I am just guessing but I did something similar to my Miata at Thunderhill a couple years back. The miata gates are a little narrow and under a high adrenaline shifting situation, I was trying to shift from second to third and actually hit somewhere between 3rd and 5th. I didn't know what I had done until I got back into the pits. I put the car into reverse to go out for the next session and it stayed in reverse. I could only shift from reverse into neutral. I couldn't shift into 5th or any of the other gears. I manage to get it back into 1-4 with a bit of fiddling but 5th was gone and when I went back into reverse again there she stayed. Bad news was I had to rebuild the tranny, that's when we found the broken fork
.

Hopefully somebody will jump on here with more tranny knowledge.

 

[dave6666]

PS my 'real' tranny howling noise turned out to be a pinion bearing going bad in the diff. Had to get really bad to tell it wasn't tranny or otherwise. Likely caused by wheel hop.

 

[72hemi]

Oh I should mention when I let off the gas the howling noise stops and it stops when I disengage the clutch as well.

 

[dave6666]

Something in the driveline then as when you let off the gas or push in the clutch you are unloading the driveline. Like I said fluids can tell a lot and the tranny is the easiest it has a drain plug.

 

[kblake905]

Also, in 0.5 seconds at 7000 rpm your pistons go up and down about 50 times. You aren't fast enought to respond. None of us are. That's why missed shifts are typically not good.[/QUOTE]

I know the 2004 has a rev limiter (first hand experience )Can someone tell me if my 2001 has that feature

 

[Ratical2]

My 96 GTS has a rev limiter...I have only hit it once. It scared the "bleep" out of me when I did........

 

[PacificSEASnake]

PS my 'real' tranny howling noise turned out to be a pinion bearing going bad in the diff. Had to get really bad to tell it wasn't tranny or otherwise. Likely caused by wheel hop.

Dave, when your tranny makes a howling noise, does that mean stop - or keep going? I always forget the safe word.

 

[72hemi]

Hey Ken, what did the car do when you hit the rev limiter?

I'm taking the car to a friend's this afternoon so we can check it out.

 

[dave6666]

I've hit the rev limit too in 2nd but that is different than a missed shift. The PCM shuts off the fuel at rev limit but on a missed shift the car's momentum will carry the rpm higher than designed.

 

[Ratical2]

Hey Ken, what did the car do when you hit the rev limiter?

I'm taking the car to a friend's this afternoon so we can check it out.

The engine shut's off the fuel until the RPM's drop...but it happens at a point when you are making full power so it's like hitting a wall, full on, full off. Just like you described earlier, when it happens, you're on the clutch instantly but by that time the fuel is back on and the engine is running again and you are wondering what just happened and if you just broke something.

As Dave mentioned, the good things is that you didn't over rev but you did just shock the drive line.

Look at the bright side. If the transmission is broken, It is a great opportunity for Nikki to add tranny rebuilds to her engine building portfolio!


Dave, I am guessing that your howling bearing noise was speed dependent and didn't change with load or direction. I have similar symptoms with mine. As it heats up, the volume increases but the frequency is entirely speed related. I am assuming a pinion bearing or a pinion gear problem.

 

[dave6666]

Here's the pics of the pinion bearing. It really is hard to establish an rpm dependent pitch to a growl like that. More like the faster you went the louder it gets. But it was never whiny. Just growly.

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[Ratical2]

Dave, thanks for posting.the picture and description. Mine is not the high pitched whine associated with gear mesh. It is more of a growl. Its funny, because it came and went but now it constant. I need to drop the diff and get it to the shop. I have been quoted $250 labor and $150 parts( seals, bearings, shims) for a rebuild by a local diff specialties shop. We shall see what they find. Thinking about regearing at this point as well.

Sorry John for hijacking your thread. Tell us what you find out!

 

[72hemi]

That's alright Ken. I'm going to see Rocky this afternoon, I'll post an update afterwards.

 

[dave6666]

I remember when people would just hijack. No asking for forgiveness, no courtesy.

Post -->> retreat -->> wait

Like me every day

 

[Ratical2]

John's a new guy... and a nice guy too...but once the probationary period is over, then he is fair game like anyone else. That and the fact that we are the "Kinder, gentler"site.

If you want your chops busted every time you post a question, then the Alley is where is at.

 

[72hemi]

Thanks Ken

So my friend thinks that I shouldn't worry about the sound other than the fact that it is really annoying, so that is good news. I still want to find out exactly what it is, just need to find the time and money to pull the transmission apart.

 

[Ratical2]

So, if I interpret what you are saying correctly, Rocky thinks you should go ahead and drive it some more until you break it really good? Just Kidding.
I would trust Rocky's judgement. He has a lot of automotive experience.

FYI, The viper drive line transmits sound very well. A lot of people have thought they had tranny problems when it turned out to be the rear end. So don't limit your search to the transmission. The whole drive line needs to be checked out.

 

[72hemi]

That's why I went to Rocky. I figured he would give it to me straight and has the most experience of anyone I know here in the Bay Area. If I were still in Redding I would just put the car in the air, pull the transmission and take it apart, unfortunately I'm here in the South Bay with no shop or equipment.So while I may not find out right away what the noise is, I won't rest until I do.

 

[dave6666]

FYI, The viper drive line transmits sound very well. A lot of people have thought they had tranny problems when it turned out to be the rear end. So don't limit your search to the transmission. The whole drive line needs to be checked out.

Agree with that. It took a while to discern that the noise I was hearing from the pinion bearing was NOT the tranny.

If you look at your seating area and the relationship of where everything is on the car, that diff is just right behind you. Not a block and a half away like it is on my 1 ton

 

[72hemi]

That's a good point, I will definitely check the whole drivetrain.

 

[72hemi]

You know I would prefer it be a rearend noise, because I would much rather spend $1,500 on a 3.55 conversion compared to $1,500 on transmission repairs

 

[72hemi]

Stupid question, if I wanted to buy a spare transmission what year/model Viper transmissions are the same as a 2001 GTS Coupe ACR?

 

[dave6666]

Going to a Gen 3 is a popular option.

 

[Ratical2]

What advantage does the Gen3 have over the Gen2 transmission? I didn't think that it was worth the trouble. What would be nice is a Gen 4 transmission conversion.

 

[72hemi]

While a gen 3 or gen 4 transmission would be nice, from a cost stand point it makes more since to look for a gen 2 transmission or a gen 1 (if they are the same). The problem with a gen 4 transmission from my understanding is the length is slightly different and the biggest issue is the missing tone ring for the speedometer. The advantage of the gen 3 or 4 transmission from my understanding is the gear ratio in 5th and 6th change to allow the cars to hit 200 mph (not sure how true that is) also that the price of the parts to convert a gen 2 transmission is around $400 for the required new gears.

 

[72hemi]

So since I am in Redding for the weekend I decided to take my Viper to my friend and mechanic and have him check out the car. We put it in the air and put a stethescope to the drivetrain and determined that the pinion bearing is bad and there is a noise in the front u-joint. So it looks like I will be doing a gear swap on the Viper So the question is 3.55 gears or 3.73?